Interest builds around possible changes to NASCAR schedule

Charlie Spencer

Road courses and short tracks.
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
25,722
Points
883
Location
Lexington, SC
Why do you feel the date should change?
I don’t care one way or the other where the schedule starts, or when any one track has its dates.

I don’t view ‘But Tradition!!!’ as a legitimate driver of business decisions, especially when it appears to be the only obstacle to trying changes. ‘Tradition’ is just shorthand for ‘That’s the way we’ve always done it.’, and that’s a path to stagnation and death for a business.
 
Last edited:

StandOnIt

Farm Truck
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
53,381
Points
883
Location
yoooklahoma
lol those were my first thoughts exactly.

IIRC ISC bought Pikes Peak/Colorado National to shut it down, bought Nazareth to shut it down, and maybeeee bought Chicago Motor Speedway to shut it down. It is a very real concern an operator buys a track just to close it.
Colorado National is still open
 

StandOnIt

Farm Truck
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
53,381
Points
883
Location
yoooklahoma
I don’t care one way or the other where the schedule starts. I don’t view ‘But Tradition!!!’ as a legitimate driver of business decisions, especially when it appears to be the only obstacle to trying changes. ‘Tradition’ is just shorthand for ‘That’s the way we’ve always done it.’, and that’s a path to stagnation and death for a business.
Common sense plays a role also. Where are the best chances to have a race in Febuary where it is warm and dry
 

Snappy D

2017, 2021 Pick Em Champion 2018 Bold Predictor
Joined
Feb 13, 2017
Messages
11,485
Points
783
I don’t care one way or the other where the schedule starts, or when any one track has its dates.

I don’t view ‘But Tradition!!!’ as a legitimate driver of business decisions, especially when it appears to be the only obstacle to trying changes. ‘Tradition’ is just shorthand for ‘That’s the way we’ve always done it.’, and that’s a path to stagnation and death for a business.
True. But there’s also a way to keep evolving while also keeping in mind what brought you there in the first place. NASCAR has shown in the past it wants to be a parallel to stick and ball sports. Some of the reason of what make those sports successful is traditions like Yankees vs Red Sox, Bears vs Packers and Tarheels vs Blue Devils. Yes those are rivals but fans like that constant reminder each year those teams play each other. College football alone has so many unique traditions that make college football what it is. Now granted so much has changed in those sports even in the last 10 years alone ( 2 more wildcards in baseball, Longer NFL season, constant NCAA realignment, College Football Playoff) that nothing stays the same forever. But I have a hard time of changing something for the sake of “Well tradition, who cares?! Change it just because!” I think there’s something to be said for “doing it because we always have” because in an ever changing world is it so bad to have one or two constants always to count on? What if those changes don’t work….if they don’t oh well but at least the fundamental principles that made you successful in the first place are still there. I guess what I’m trying to say I hope the fundamentals arnt lost.
 

StandOnIt

Farm Truck
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
53,381
Points
883
Location
yoooklahoma
True. But there’s also a way to keep evolving while also keeping in mind what brought you there in the first place. NASCAR has shown in the past it wants to be a parallel to stick and ball sports. Some of the reason of what make those sports successful is traditions like Yankees vs Red Sox, Bears vs Packers and Tarheels vs Blue Devils. Yes those are rivals but fans like that constant reminder each year those teams play each other. College football alone has so many unique traditions that make college football what it is. Now granted so much has changed in those sports even in the last 10 years alone ( 2 more wildcards in baseball, Longer NFL season, constant NCAA realignment, College Football Playoff) that nothing stays the same forever. But I have a hard time of changing something for the sake of “Well tradition, who cares?! Change it just because!” I think there’s something to be said for “doing it because we always have” because in an ever changing world is it so bad to have one or two constants always to count on? What if those changes don’t work….if they don’t oh well but at least the fundamental principles that made you successful in the first place are still there. I guess what I’m trying to say I hope the fundamentals arnt lost.
eh ya lost me there with the stick an ball comparisons, I don't see it. Reality said fans wanted changes to the schedule, they wanted more short tracks and road courses. Did ya miss the memo?
 

Snappy D

2017, 2021 Pick Em Champion 2018 Bold Predictor
Joined
Feb 13, 2017
Messages
11,485
Points
783
eh ya lost me there with the stick an ball comparisons, I don't see it. Reality said fans wanted changes to the schedule, they wanted more short tracks and road courses. Did ya miss the memo?
NASCAR doesn’t address memo’s to me. They must have lost my email. I don’t like stick and ball comparisons either but wouldn’t you agree the points system that is used is very close to what is used in stick and ball sports. Wouldn’t that then invite the comparisons. Maybe I’m reaching there and apologizes if that’s the case but the core of my post of not losing your way I don’t think is controversial in the least
 

MRM

Team Owner
Joined
Jun 14, 2002
Messages
4,798
Points
593
Location
Powell, TN
Going back to SMI buying Dover and Nashville, it looks to me it's easier for SMI to buy them out than investing time and money into improvements and other issues to get NASCAR back to the Fairgrounds. Maybe I'm misreading it, but that's how it looks to me.
 

Charlie Spencer

Road courses and short tracks.
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
25,722
Points
883
Location
Lexington, SC
Going back to Wilkesboro, it's going to take a ton of money to get it into shape, not just the track but all the garage, spectator, and media facilities, and the roads and infrastructure. Why would SMI spend that kind of money on a track that's in West Bhum Phuque, close to its flagship track, and would probably require scavenging a date from an existing facility?
 

wi_racefan

Team Owner
Joined
Aug 4, 2017
Messages
1,886
Points
323
Going back to Wilkesboro, it's going to take a ton of money to get it into shape, not just the track but all the garage, spectator, and media facilities, and the roads and infrastructure. Why would SMI spend that kind of money on a track that's in West Bhum Phuque, close to its flagship track, and would probably require scavenging a date from an existing facility?
That's because you're think of it from a racing standpoint, not financial. If the state is willing to give them money, I'm sure local governments will give them tax breaks and sometimes the Bean counters find it almost cheaper to spend money and declare a loss than pay taxes on a profit. In the end it might not cost them near as much as one would think.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
 

StandOnIt

Farm Truck
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
53,381
Points
883
Location
yoooklahoma
That's because you're think of it from a racing standpoint, not financial. If the state is willing to give them money, I'm sure local governments will give them tax breaks and sometimes the Bean counters find it almost cheaper to spend money and declare a loss than pay taxes on a profit. In the end it might not cost them near as much as one would think.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
not sure the state is giving them money. Stuff like that gets realocated. I will be surprised if they get anything, and if they do, it would probably be fixed up for some of the lower more local series of racing. I wouldn't think Nascar and the Smith's are going to over saturate that area or they would have done so years ago
 

FLRacingFan

Team Owner
Joined
Feb 9, 2013
Messages
28,507
Points
883
Location
Florida
I don’t think Dover will go away but still see Fairgrounds replacing Nashville SS eventually - however many years down the road. If/when that project ever comes to fruition, and I think it will even if it just means a certain number of concessions to the area around the track, they won’t want to operate two tracks in that market.
 

wi_racefan

Team Owner
Joined
Aug 4, 2017
Messages
1,886
Points
323
not sure the state is giving them money. Stuff like that gets realocated. I will be surprised if they get anything, and if they do, it would probably be fixed up for some of the lower more local series of racing. I wouldn't think Nascar and the Smith's are going to over saturate that area or they would have done so years ago
Looks the the governor is willing to throw in a good amount.....


Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
 

AndyMarquisLive

I love short track racing with all my heart
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
72,204
Points
1,033
Location
A short track somewhere
Eh...I don't entirely agree. Tradition has to begin somewhere and a June Indy 500 might be better. Would I dislike such a change? Absolutely. But at the end of the day, the on-track product is what really matters

The problem with moving Daytona would be that you've already taken away from that race with the championship being a one race winner-take-all deal. How can you have a "Super Bowl of Stock Car Racing" when you have since implemented a Super Bowl.

The other part that's special about Daytona is that, for multiple generations of race fans, it's the first race of the year.
 

2 Sweet

48 > 11
Joined
Apr 21, 2016
Messages
4,488
Points
593
Location
Hilliard, OH
If these schedule changes weren't being made then the "traditionalists" would be whining about all the cookie cutter 1.5 mile tracks staying around

How do you figure?

Again, change is perfectly fine, as long as the right changes are being made.
 

StandOnIt

Farm Truck
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
53,381
Points
883
Location
yoooklahoma
I have always thought that calling the 500 the super bowl of racing was pretty stupid. The analogy never fit, it isn't moving. The fear mongers are trying to make out something that isn't. Typical, but false.
 

LJ7201

#80
Joined
Aug 31, 2017
Messages
723
Points
223
Location
Ohio
How do you figure?

Again, change is perfectly fine, as long as the right changes are being made.
There's a group that complains regardless of what's being done. The old big wigs are ever so out of touch with the common man etc.. I don't think you are part of that group. When I see complaints about the "sacred Brickyard 400" being screwed with that's where I draw the line. If NASCAR can't touch the "tradition" they started in 1994 of holding one of the worst races in motorsports every summer then what are we doing here. It wasn't you who said that but my point is if we're just going through the motions with these stale "traditions" then that is partially what led to NASCARs decline thru the 2010s
 

Snappy D

2017, 2021 Pick Em Champion 2018 Bold Predictor
Joined
Feb 13, 2017
Messages
11,485
Points
783
If these schedule changes weren't being made then the "traditionalists" would be whining about all the cookie cutter 1.5 mile tracks staying around
I'll jump on this one. I never had a problem with the 1.5 mile tracks since I've been on here. I hope my post history doesnt betray me but I generally enjoyed the 1.5 milers. I do remember saying there was one too many of Kansas and Texas, since Texas is done to one and Kansas is well yeah in my view it could use one less. I generally never had a problem with the overall layout of the Cup Schedule, I liked knowing where they were at certain times of the year without having to look at the calendar. It's rather unfortunate if there is a small section of us on here disagreeing or not even at that point yet just asking why some of the proposed changes have to be done in the first place and then getting called death bedder, fear monger and the like. I would think we are just bantering and going back n forth here. Whatever changes do happen I will guarantee some will like it and some wont, not everyone is going to be 100% on board.
 

Snappy D

2017, 2021 Pick Em Champion 2018 Bold Predictor
Joined
Feb 13, 2017
Messages
11,485
Points
783
So how is that supposed to work. Make changes that everybody likes? Hell, we can't agree on the time of day around here.
we might not be able to agree on time because theres some of us in different parts of the US, in Canada and the world. I dont think I have gotten into a brouhaha on here about time though, maybe before I was a member this went down.
 

StandOnIt

Farm Truck
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
53,381
Points
883
Location
yoooklahoma
CBS PR, and nothing more.
Yeah, no telling who came up with the super bowl b.s., doesn't matter, it has little if anything in common with the super bowl thank gawd. It's the first big race of the season. I personally think they have diluted the hell out of it with the clash, duel one and two. So glad to have a break and have the clash somewhere else.
 

Snappy D

2017, 2021 Pick Em Champion 2018 Bold Predictor
Joined
Feb 13, 2017
Messages
11,485
Points
783
There's a group that complains regardless of what's being done. The old big wigs are ever so out of touch with the common man etc.. I don't think you are part of that group. When I see complaints about the "sacred Brickyard 400" being screwed with that's where I draw the line. If NASCAR can't touch the "tradition" they started in 1994 of holding one of the worst races in motorsports every summer then what are we doing here. It wasn't you who said that but my point is if we're just going through the motions with these stale "traditions" then that is partially what led to NASCARs decline thru the 2010s
actually the Brickyard 400 was my favorite race each year on the calendar. That and the Southern 500 were ones I was hoping never got messed with
 

StandOnIt

Farm Truck
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
53,381
Points
883
Location
yoooklahoma
There's a group that complains regardless of what's being done. The old big wigs are ever so out of touch with the common man etc.. I don't think you are part of that group. When I see complaints about the "sacred Brickyard 400" being screwed with that's where I draw the line. If NASCAR can't touch the "tradition" they started in 1994 of holding one of the worst races in motorsports every summer then what are we doing here. It wasn't you who said that but my point is if we're just going through the motions with these stale "traditions" then that is partially what led to NASCARs decline thru the 2010s
I couldn't agree more. I called it months ago when the schedule came out and before all of the cries and shame on Nascars came about. The same ones deathbedding the old schedule, will deathbed the changes. It's a personality deal IMO. Nascar doesn't operate on "feelings" they work hard to build the sport for todays fans
 

Mispeedway15

Team Owner
Joined
May 22, 2016
Messages
3,466
Points
443
actually the Brickyard 400 was my favorite race each year on the calendar. That and the Southern 500 were ones I was hoping never got messed with
I wouldn't be shocked to see the Brickyard eventually go back to the oval. I think a symmetrical car could generate some serious drafts down the straights which is what you have to have for a race worth watching there
 

LJ7201

#80
Joined
Aug 31, 2017
Messages
723
Points
223
Location
Ohio
actually the Brickyard 400 was my favorite race each year on the calendar. That and the Southern 500 were ones I was hoping never got messed with
Agree to disagree. I always thought fans deserved better than the oval races there. Besides the wild race Kasey Kahne won I can't remember any fun races there and that was only fun due to chaos. Maybe it's my memory failing me but I'm glad NASCAR was willing to change that to the RC
 

LJ7201

#80
Joined
Aug 31, 2017
Messages
723
Points
223
Location
Ohio
I wouldn't be shocked to see the Brickyard eventually go back to the oval. I think a symmetrical car could generate some serious drafts down the straights which is what you have to have for a race worth watching there
I didnt think of that. That's a good point. Will have to see how that plays out. Thankfully NASCAR has shown they'll adapt one way or the other to put on a better show.
 

StandOnIt

Farm Truck
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
53,381
Points
883
Location
yoooklahoma
Agree to disagree. I always thought fans deserved better than the oval races there. Besides the wild race Kasey Kahne won I can't remember any fun races there and that was only fun due to chaos. Maybe it's my memory failing me but I'm glad NASCAR was willing to change that to the RC
compared to the endless follow the leader on a one lane track with empty bleachers, the road course this year was a blast to watch.
 

Snappy D

2017, 2021 Pick Em Champion 2018 Bold Predictor
Joined
Feb 13, 2017
Messages
11,485
Points
783
Agree to disagree. I always thought fans deserved better than the oval races there. Besides the wild race Kasey Kahne won I can't remember any fun races there and that was only fun due to chaos. Maybe it's my memory failing me but I'm glad NASCAR was willing to change that to the RC
yea I was always entertained by the racing there. I was a sucker for the strategy, pit stops and track position meant the world and then when a pass was made it was worked for. I for some reason was never bored watching a race there on TV. I also felt it was a big deal to the drivers and teams to win there, maybe me being from the midwest skewed that but it just felt like a big time event to me. I do hope they go back to the oval for a bit to see how the new car does there, maybe it will be more exciting for fans.
 

RacerrecaR

*Screams in Jeff Burton*
Joined
Jan 3, 2015
Messages
2,876
Points
443
The problem with moving Daytona would be that you've already taken away from that race with the championship being a one race winner-take-all deal. How can you have a "Super Bowl of Stock Car Racing" when you have since implemented a Super Bowl.

The other part that's special about Daytona is that, for multiple generations of race fans, it's the first race of the year.
Daytona did not begin with the oval and it isn't even the oldest track on the circuit. I would HAAAATE if it was no longer the season opener but I would also keep an open mind about another track opening the season. Again, it's all about the on-track product and if there was a track like Martinsville that opened the season, I would be OPEN to such an idea.
 

RacerrecaR

*Screams in Jeff Burton*
Joined
Jan 3, 2015
Messages
2,876
Points
443
yea I was always entertained by the racing there. I was a sucker for the strategy, pit stops and track position meant the world and then when a pass was made it was worked for. I for some reason was never bored watching a race there on TV. I do hope they go back to the oval for a bit to see how the new car does there, maybe it will be more exciting for fans.
Indy oval was overall entertaining before stage racing due to the long green flag strategy, much like the Indy 500. The road course is my preference if stages continue to exist
 

StandOnIt

Farm Truck
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
53,381
Points
883
Location
yoooklahoma
Daytona did not begin with the oval and it isn't even the oldest track on the circuit. I would HAAAATE if it was no longer the season opener but I would also keep an open mind about another track opening the season. Again, it's all about the on-track product and if there was a track like Martinsville that opened the season, I would be OPEN to such an idea.
kinda close the coliseum is.
 

Snappy D

2017, 2021 Pick Em Champion 2018 Bold Predictor
Joined
Feb 13, 2017
Messages
11,485
Points
783
I dont hate the idea of them opening up in the Coliseum in the future then doing Fontana, Sonoma, Phoenix, Vegas for example and then back to Florida for Daytona. Would be odd but Riverside did open past seasons.
 

RacerrecaR

*Screams in Jeff Burton*
Joined
Jan 3, 2015
Messages
2,876
Points
443
I dont hate the idea of them opening up in the Coliseum in the future then doing Fontana, Sonoma, Phoenix, Vegas for example and then back to Florida for Daytona. Would be odd but Riverside did open past seasons.
If they did that, I would rather they just end the regular season and playoffs at Daytona
 

Charlie Spencer

Road courses and short tracks.
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
25,722
Points
883
Location
Lexington, SC
I dont hate the idea of them opening up in the Coliseum in the future then doing Fontana, Sonoma, Phoenix, Vegas for example and then back to Florida for Daytona. Would be odd but Riverside did open past seasons.
There are several hauler drivers out here in the hallway. I'm told being tarred and feathered isn't as painful as it's made out to be; let us know, will you?
 

Snappy D

2017, 2021 Pick Em Champion 2018 Bold Predictor
Joined
Feb 13, 2017
Messages
11,485
Points
783
you'd have to ask our resident Hauler Driver @Nitro Dude how he feels about this. I got nothing for ya, thats a hard gig driving the Big Rig for a race team I'd imagine.
 
Top Bottom