Interest builds around possible changes to NASCAR schedule

https://beyondtheflag.com/2012/12/02/how-has-nascar-schedule-changed-through-the-years/

"The schedule didn’t change too much until 1971 when RJ Reynolds Tobacco Company took the title sponsor for NASCAR and it became the Winston Cup Series. The is known as the beginning of the modern era of NASCAR. The changes made were the season was shortened to 31 races. All races on dirt were removed from the schedule and all races that were shorter than 250 miles. Some tracks that around used by the Sprint Cup Series anymore were Hickory, Greenville-Pickens Speedway, Smokey Mountain Raceway and Trenton Speedway. Those are to just name a few but there were many others."
 
Snappy D said:
North Wilkesboro didn’t stand a chance since the late 80’s that’s humorous to me for those I see on social media that want it brought back to Cup. As for today I really believe the more I read that it will be hard for NASCAR to make any big schedule changes until the tv deal is up in 2024.
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I agree, it's not coming back, but if Dick Bahre and Bruton Smith hadn't gobbled it up for their own selfish reasons, it might STILL be on the schedule. The ONLY difference between Martinsville and North Wilkesboro was an owner committed to staying in business, versus one who wasn't.
 
Ventisca said:
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“Change is the only constant in life”
Heraclitus
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Every change is a gimmick, an assault on the status quo..whatever the hell the individual thinks that is. Some have sucked up and holding resentments from over 40 years ago like a hoover shop vac, or a rabid spider monkey and about all they can do is repeat it over and over all day long. It gets worse every day for em. Can't enjoy much of nothin. About all they can do it try to spread their pain. I see more short tracks and road courses in the schedule myself. Sure would be cool to go to other road courses, some of them are works of art, maybe up in Canada. :pbjtime:
 
StandOnIt said:
Every change is a gimmick, an assault on the status quo..whatever the hell the individual thinks that is. Some have sucked up and holding resentments from over 40 years ago like a hoover shop vac, or a rabid spider monkey and about all they can do is repeat it over and over all day long. It gets worse every day for em. Can't enjoy much of nothin. About all they can do it try to spread their pain. I see more short tracks and road courses in the schedule myself. Sure would be cool to go to other road courses, some of them are works of art, maybe up in Canada. :pbjtime:
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I hear what you are saying as some people are resistant to any change and wish for days that will never return. I think that some of that is present in Nascar but I think there are a lot of legitimate gripes.

Most of the people with gripes have left in droves but there is still a large contingent that like to disparage the series and by default those that enjoy it. I think it works on the same principle as a fan that roots passionately for a driver(s) but is equally as passionate about rooting against certain guys.

Some people live to speak poorly about Kyle Busch and just hate the guy. If Kyle pushes his car hard and crashes out in Daytona these folks day will have been made.
 
I appreciate a lot of the people here for many reasons and I learn a lot and enjoy myself. If I didn’t feel this way I would not participate here because no one is forcing you or me to do so.
 
Here is a significant change that has been absent since Bill Sr and Jr were around and they would say don't bring this back to the track. And it is a good way to keep costs down if they work at it. It seemed or at least seemed to me that if teams were doing something and there wasn't a rule against it, they let it go and soon all of the bigger teams were doing it.

Any subsequent issues found at the Research and Development Center will not result in a penalty, but will be used to examine trends in the sport. If NASCAR sees something they do not like via this process, it is anticipated that it will become part of the rules package that will eventually be enforced post-race.

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nas/86138/433/2019-nascar-rules-changes
 
I think it is going to be interesting to see how things play out in cup until the next few years. What encourages me is that someone in Nascar seems to have a realistic idea of what the future will look like.

Instead of pretending that all is well they are making plans for less races and I think it is probable the car counts drop too. Races will likly be shorter and the there will probably be a spec engine option for cup. Talk about the quickest way to get new manufacturers.
 
I don't foresee a spec engine option for Cup, I don't think the manufacturers would be on board with that at all. I actually agree with Toyota about the Truck Series. (tongue jumping out of mouth and running away). If there is going to be spec engines at that level, there should be a spec engine for each brand.
 
Formerjackman said:
I don't foresee a spec engine option for Cup, I don't think the manufacturers would be on board with that at all. I actually agree with Toyota about the Truck Series. (tongue jumping out of mouth and running away). If there is going to be spec engines at that level, there should be a spec engine for each brand.
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That doesn't make any sense. Maybe I am not followingg. IMO that was what it was before with every manufacturer pouring millions into their engines that only a select few could afford. Truck counts are up this year, more smaller single truck outfits than it has been in a long time.
 
I think spec engines will come to cup to benefit smaller teams and be a carrot for new manufacturers. This is only opinion of mine.
 
StandOnIt said:
That doesn't make any sense. Maybe I am not followingg. IMO that was what it was before with every manufacturer pouring millions into their engines that only a select few could afford. Truck counts are up this year, more smaller single truck outfits than it has been in a long time.
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No, my idea is to hire ONE supplier, and have them build a Chevy, a Ford and a Toyota engine that is performance balanced to roughly equal performance, ala IMSA, and sell them to the teams. Then when a Toyota wins a truck race, it might be a spec motor, but at least you can say it was TOYOTA. I don't think that's too much to ask.
 
IanMcVittie said:
I think spec engines will come to cup to benefit smaller teams and be a carrot for new manufacturers. This is only opinion of mine.
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The spec engines MIGHT help the smaller teams, but at the Cup level, I don't think the engines are really what's holding them back. New manufacturers MIGHT be interested, but we already know that Cup cars aren't even close to real cars, so take away the engine, and what does manufacturer have to get behind? I can't imagine the three existing manufacturers liking that plan AT ALL. That's how I see, it. Remember than opinion is worth what you paid for it.
 
IanMcVittie said:
Some people live to speak poorly about Kyle Busch and just hate the guy. If Kyle pushes his car hard and crashes out in Daytona these folks day will have been made.
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Oh count me in as one of the guys that loves to root against Kyle! That said, I respect his talents tremendously and would hate to see him leave. Nascar needs more guys like him not fewer.
 
Formerjackman said:
No, my idea is to hire ONE supplier, and have them build a Chevy, a Ford and a Toyota engine that is performance balanced to roughly equal performance, ala IMSA, and sell them to the teams. Then when a Toyota wins a truck race, it might be a spec motor, but at least you can say it was TOYOTA. I don't think that's too much to ask.
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It’s cheaper just to put a manufacturers valve covers on the engine.
 
Formerjackman said:
No, my idea is to hire ONE supplier, and have them build a Chevy, a Ford and a Toyota engine that is performance balanced to roughly equal performance, ala IMSA, and sell them to the teams. Then when a Toyota wins a truck race, it might be a spec motor, but at least you can say it was TOYOTA. I don't think that's too much to ask.
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As an engineer at Honda this is blasphemous. An engine is the most precious part of a car
 
Mispeedway15 said:
As an engineer at Honda this is blasphemous. An engine is the most precious part of a car
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I agree, which is why I have never been a spec motor guy, BUT if we must have them in the lower series, I think we should have manufacturer specific spec engines.
 
Formerjackman said:
I agree, which is why I have never been a spec motor guy, BUT if we must have them in the lower series, I think we should have manufacturer specific spec engines.
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We already have spec engines in cup for each manufacturer. Yates design and build for FORD and approved by Nascar. The same was true of Penske for DODGE. HMS and RCR both make the CHEVROLET engines and TDR makes engines for Toyota. If I understand you, you want those to close shop and everyone buy an engine from the one manufacturer with different labeled valve covers???
By the way, the only reason RCR builds engines is because of Dale E.
 
No. the current Cup engines are not spec engines, because each builder can make them as powerful as they can legally figure out how to. Spec engines are built, sealed and certified to be of a certain power rating. As I said, I'm not a fan of spec engines at ALL, but I understand the attraction to them, at least in lower level series for budgetary reasons. The current Ilmor spec engine for the trucks and ARCA series is in reality a GM LS production based engine. That is fine for the Chevy racers, but the Ford and Toyota teams should have an equal counterpart that is of their own manufacturer design, but certified to be performance matched to the GM engine. These engines already exist, they would just have to be adjusted and certified to be of equal performance parameters by a neutral party such as Ilmor or somebody else. The LAST thing in the world I want is somebody to slap a Ford or Toyota decal on a Ilmor/Chevy engine and call it their own. I don't know what you mean by RCR builds engine because of Dale E. RCR had their own shop, DEI had their own engine shop, and they began to cooperate on certain projects like restrictor plate engines. After Dale's death, the decision was made to merge the two shops and create ECR, a separate stand alone business. At some point, I believe Richard Childress became the sole owner of the business, and to my knowledge Teresa Earnhardt no longer has any financial stake in the company at all.
 
Here's a brief overview of what i would like to see done. Overall, I'd utilize all 3 major series to have a year round NASCAR.

- The Truck series would be a winter series that features 15-20 dates. The series would start in Mid-October and end in late March. The trucks would race on short tracks, dirt tracks and road courses in California, Nevada, Arizona, Florida, Texas. It would be very much a regional winter touring series to keep race fans engaged during the winter.

-The Xfinity series would run 20-25 races from Daytona until Labor Day Weekend at Darlington. It would be mostly a Southeast series with a couple of races out west and 5-7 races "up" North and in the Midwest. The series would have a variety of tracks but the emphasis would be on smaller Southern venues.

- The Cup series would preserve 2 races at Daytona, Darlington, Bristol, Martinsville, Talladega and Richmond. Atlanta, Charlotte, Pocono, Michigan and Dover (maybe Phoenix?) would be deemed legacy tracks due to their historical importance in NASCAR. They have one date every year and an additional chase date on a 3 year rotating basis. I'm giving in to the fact the "chase" is not going away. They also get 1 Xfinity race per year. New Hampshire, Las Vegas, Homestead, Kentucky, Kansas, Texas, Chicago, California, Watkins Glen and Sears Point each get on race. The chase is cut down to 8 weeks and ends in late October. The Brickyard and All-Star race are axed and three more road courses and one more short track are added (ORP? Nashville?). I came up with a 35 week schedule that begins at Daytona and ends with Sears Point and Las Vegas. First and foremost, I want to make sure the historical venues are preserved. Those are the places this sport was built upon. From there incorporate some new ideas.
 
KodiakRusty89 said:
Here's a brief overview of what i would like to see done. Overall, I'd utilize all 3 major series to have a year round NASCAR.

- The Truck series would be a winter series that features 15-20 dates. The series would start in Mid-October and end in late March. The trucks would race on short tracks, dirt tracks and road courses in California, Nevada, Arizona, Florida, Texas. It would be very much a regional winter touring series to keep race fans engaged during the winter.

-The Xfinity series would run 20-25 races from Daytona until Labor Day Weekend at Darlington. It would be mostly a Southeast series with a couple of races out west and 5-7 races "up" North and in the Midwest. The series would have a variety of tracks but the emphasis would be on smaller Southern venues.

- The Cup series would preserve 2 races at Daytona, Darlington, Bristol, Martinsville, Talladega and Richmond. Atlanta, Charlotte, Pocono, Michigan and Dover (maybe Phoenix?) would be deemed legacy tracks due to their historical importance in NASCAR. They have one date every year and an additional chase date on a 3 year rotating basis. I'm giving in to the fact the "chase" is not going away. They also get 1 Xfinity race per year. New Hampshire, Las Vegas, Homestead, Kentucky, Kansas, Texas, Chicago, California, Watkins Glen and Sears Point each get on race. The chase is cut down to 8 weeks and ends in late October. The Brickyard and All-Star race are axed and three more road courses and one more short track are added (ORP? Nashville?). I came up with a 35 week schedule that begins at Daytona and ends with Sears Point and Las Vegas. First and foremost, I want to make sure the historical venues are preserved. Those are the places this sport was built upon. From there incorporate some new ideas.
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Interesting ideas.
 
KodiakRusty89 said:
... would be deemed legacy tracks due to their historical importance in NASCAR.
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For a business trying to make a profit, I don't think there's any poorer reason to continue doing something than 'historical importance', tradition, 'that's the way we've always done it', etc.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
For a business trying to make a profit, I don't think there's any poorer reason to continue doing something than 'historical importance', tradition, 'that's the way we've always done it', etc.
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Well, for a sport that has been continually slammed by its fans for turning it's back on its roots, I'm not sure I totally agree with you.
 
I don’t know why people want trucks to go to these small venues. They put on a hell of a show at the bigger tracks
 
KodiakRusty89 said:
Here's a brief overview of what i would like to see done. Overall, I'd utilize all 3 major series to have a year round NASCAR.

- The Truck series would be a winter series that features 15-20 dates. The series would start in Mid-October and end in late March. The trucks would race on short tracks, dirt tracks and road courses in California, Nevada, Arizona, Florida, Texas. It would be very much a regional winter touring series to keep race fans engaged during the winter.

-The Xfinity series would run 20-25 races from Daytona until Labor Day Weekend at Darlington. It would be mostly a Southeast series with a couple of races out west and 5-7 races "up" North and in the Midwest. The series would have a variety of tracks but the emphasis would be on smaller Southern venues.

- The Cup series would preserve 2 races at Daytona, Darlington, Bristol, Martinsville, Talladega and Richmond. Atlanta, Charlotte, Pocono, Michigan and Dover (maybe Phoenix?) would be deemed legacy tracks due to their historical importance in NASCAR. They have one date every year and an additional chase date on a 3 year rotating basis. I'm giving in to the fact the "chase" is not going away. They also get 1 Xfinity race per year. New Hampshire, Las Vegas, Homestead, Kentucky, Kansas, Texas, Chicago, California, Watkins Glen and Sears Point each get on race. The chase is cut down to 8 weeks and ends in late October. The Brickyard and All-Star race are axed and three more road courses and one more short track are added (ORP? Nashville?). I came up with a 35 week schedule that begins at Daytona and ends with Sears Point and Las Vegas. First and foremost, I want to make sure the historical venues are preserved. Those are the places this sport was built upon. From there incorporate some new ideas.
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I love your ideas. Especially for the Truck Series, I never even thought of something like that. I would swap out the one date with Darlington and give it to Charlotte to see if the Roval takes off by giving it 3-5 years. I wasn’t a huge fan of the Roval but many fans seemed to like it and it got buzz for NASCAR. Let’s see if it works with that date because we arnt axing the Coke 600. The one Darlington date makes the Southern 500 even more special, it’s like the PGA Tour going to Augusta for the Master’s every April . Darlington is our trip back through time.
 
Formerjackman said:
Well, for a sport that has been continually slammed by its fans for turning it's back on its roots, I'm not sure I totally agree with you.
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That's demonstrated customer demand, a factor beyond mere 'historical importance'.

You've seen the 'Harvick sez drop the Clash' thread? The majority of responses there favor ditching the 'historically important' Clash and All-Star races. I wonder how many of those posting are the same ones complaining about abandoning roots?
 
I know it would be almost impossible and expensive, but as long as we are in the land of mostly make believe, it would be cool to use the proper year throw back cars for the Darlington races the throw back weekend..
 
StandOnIt said:
I know it would be almost impossible and expensive, but as long as we are in the land of mostly make believe, it would be cool to use the proper year throw back cars for the Darlington races the throw back weekend..
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Now you're wanting stock cars back in stock car racing. Silly boy.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
That's demonstrated customer demand, a factor beyond mere 'historical importance'.

You've seen the 'Harvick sez drop the Clash' thread? The majority of responses there favor ditching the 'historically important' Clash and All-Star races. I wonder how many of those posting are the same ones complaining about abandoning roots?
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That's why I suggested not eliminating, but returning those races back to the formats and premise they started out with. Because of the rules, the clash is probably no longer suited to Daytona, so move it somewhere else. Make the All Star race a true all star race again, and maybe interest will pick up. NASCAR has a bad habit of homogenizing EVERYTHING, until NOTHING feels special or different.
 
Formerjackman said:
Make the All Star race a true all star race again, and maybe interest will pick up.
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I'm not sure how reducing the field sizes will increase interest. It's still the same guys we see competing against each other every week, only less of them. Why would that be more interesting than the regular races that occur the weeks before and after?

I'm with you on the Clash, but I'm in favor of anything that takes races of the Daytona oval.
 
If it was a LOT harder to make the All Star race, and being one of the very few who qualify truly meant something, the drivers and teams would generate more excitement about the event, and everyone else could feed off that. As it is now, basically every driver anybody cares about is in that race one way or another. What' special about that? It's the same problem with the NHL and NBA playoffs, where they seem to think putting 75% of the teams in the playoffs is the way to go. Making the playoffs should be a HUGE accomplishment by itself, never mind whether you win a series or not. The way it is, NBA teams that would probably struggle to beat a good Duke team are making the playoffs. In an effort to not leave anybody out, all of these leagues water down the value of their product and drown interest. The NCAA tournament has become a joke for the same reason. Hell, there are only about 48 teams that are remotely worthy of being there. Finishing fifth in your conference means NOTHING as far as I'm concerned. Go play in the NIT.
 
Formerjackman said:
If it was a LOT harder to make the All Star race, and being one of the very few who qualify truly meant something, the drivers and teams would generate more excitement about the event, and everyone else could feed off that.
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You've still lost me.

Other All-Star games feature players from different teams who don't normally play together or against each other. I'm with you as far as too many teams in March Madness, but the rounds after the first weekend are still teams who mostly haven't met each other that season. Most of the excitement comes from seeing people compete with and against teams they don't normally face, to see how they work with and measure up against each other.

NASCAR's All-Star race? It's the same guys in the same cars I watched race each other at Richmond the week before, and will watch in the 600 on the same track a week later. I don't get how the eligibility rules are going to make that any more interesting. Is a 12-car field inherently more entertaining than an 18-car one, or a 40-car one? Either way, it's still Kez vs. Kyle vs. Kevin vs. Kurt vs. ... It's not like Lewis Hamilton or Scott Dixon or Ashley Force are going to be entered.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
For a business trying to make a profit, I don't think there's any poorer reason to continue doing something than 'historical importance', tradition, 'that's the way we've always done it', etc.
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I think you have to find a good balance. One unique thing about racing is the track aspect. It gives current and future generations the ability to compete on the same track as past legends. You race the track a much as you do your competitors. Likewise with golf. There's a reason the Open Championship operates on a rotation with very few variations. Keep that historical core of tracks and deviate from there.

There's no question the schedule needs some tweaking but don't go crazy blowing it up. For one, the attendance drop isn't the tracks fault. Especially the independents like Pocono and Dover. By rotating chase dates you create a lot of flexibility. Tracks could start selling chase race/playoff tickets 24 months ahead.
 
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