Is Ford behind? If so, why?

Is Ford behind?

  • Yes

    Votes: 11 61.1%

  • No

    Votes: 7 38.9%
  • Total voters
    18
If anyone needs to see how a Ford can devastate a mans life just take a look at Kurt Busch.

Even after winning the championship he knew that a broken clock only tells the right time when all the stars line up (unlike Chevrolets ability to routinely dominate). So the mental stress starting building. Troubles with the law, the wife, and the boss, all those issues are visually encapsulated when looking at a Ford man. Ford people the more invested the more twisted or kooky. Carl or Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde. Brad the defending champ, the good time feel good guy, he drunk to celebrate prior to Ford. He wont be getting drunk in public anymore because Miller doesn't need to be associated with losing (or Ford now people would be thinking the poor man needs it just to survive another Ford day)'.

Dodge couldnt help him either and the esteemed Penske couldn't help him.
Finally the compassionate folks at Chevrolet decided to salvage his life. They broke him in gently with Finches humble team, the culture shock of having cars that are actually functioning race cars might have been to much at once. This year he advanced to Furniture Row as an intermediate step.

Next year he finally gets the good stuff, a happy ending to a bittersweet story. If he had been originally given the good stuff (a chevy) he would probably be one of America's most loved individuals. He would probably be as mellow as Mister Rodgers while being more badass than 5 time.
 
Greg said:
If anyone needs to see how a Ford can devastate a mans life just take a look at Kurt Busch.

Even after winning the championship he knew that a broken clock only tells the right time when all the stars line up (unlike Chevrolets ability to routinely dominate). So the mental stress starting building. Troubles with the law, the wife, and the boss, all those issues are visually encapsulated when looking at a Ford man. Ford people the more invested the more twisted or kooky. Carl or Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde. Brad the defending champ, the good time feel good guy, he drunk to celebrate prior to Ford. He wont be getting drunk in public anymore because Miller doesn't need to be associated with losing (or Ford now people would be thinking the poor man needs it just to survive another Ford day)'.

Dodge couldnt help him either and the esteemed Penske couldn't help him.
Finally the compassionate folks at Chevrolet decided to salvage his life. They broke him in gently with Finches humble team, the culture shock of having cars that are actually functioning race cars might have been to much at once. This year he advanced to Furniture Row as an intermediate step.

Next year he finally gets the good stuff, a happy ending to a bittersweet story. If he had been originally given the good stuff (a chevy) he would probably be one of America's most loved individuals. He would probably be as mellow as Mister Rodgers while being more badass than 5 time.
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Brad's gone insane this year... a whole lot of crying. From champion to chump.
 
StandOnIt said:
you would think he still has a shop, running Chevy's in Indy car. ford might have offered him a good deal or something..turned out not so good.
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Again, Jack and Yates have a deal with Ford to be the single engine producer. Ford wouldn't break that deal, even to get Penske. Penske was hot on Ford partly because they were the most eager to introduce the Gen6, and Toyota was probably his only other choice. Chevy already runs half the field. Why he didn't go to Toyota, seeing how Dodge is foreign owned too, is puzzling. Toyota would have allowed him to continue to build engines, and they have been running better than Ford for some time now.

Penske will get it turned around. He's too big and rich for Ford to risk losing again. Perhaps he will agree to share his engineering with Roush in exchange for a piece, and some control, of the engine business.
 
Greg said:
If anyone needs to see how a Ford can devastate a mans life just take a look at Kurt Busch.

Even after winning the championship he knew that a broken clock only tells the right time when all the stars line up (unlike Chevrolets ability to routinely dominate). So the mental stress starting building. Troubles with the law, the wife, and the boss, all those issues are visually encapsulated when looking at a Ford man. Ford people the more invested the more twisted or kooky. Carl or Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde. Brad the defending champ, the good time feel good guy, he drunk to celebrate prior to Ford. He wont be getting drunk in public anymore because Miller doesn't need to be associated with losing (or Ford now people would be thinking the poor man needs it just to survive another Ford day)'.

Dodge couldnt help him either and the esteemed Penske couldn't help him.
Finally the compassionate folks at Chevrolet decided to salvage his life. They broke him in gently with Finches humble team, the culture shock of having cars that are actually functioning race cars might have been to much at once. This year he advanced to Furniture Row as an intermediate step.

Next year he finally gets the good stuff, a happy ending to a bittersweet story. If he had been originally given the good stuff (a chevy) he would probably be one of America's most loved individuals. He would probably be as mellow as Mister Rodgers while being more badass than 5 time.
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lol That's some strong Chevy cool-aid you drink.
 
ain't brands no mo ! just teams. ----hms.....jgr......this yr !

or did nobody watch 24 / 48 pass most a' tha field sat nite while 20 / 18 led race ? ha!
 
Ford isn't behind..there's just too many egos in their camp.
 
Greg said:
If anyone needs to see how a Ford can devastate a mans life just take a look at Kurt Busch.

Even after winning the championship he knew that a broken clock only tells the right time when all the stars line up (unlike Chevrolets ability to routinely dominate). So the mental stress starting building. Troubles with the law, the wife, and the boss, all those issues are visually encapsulated when looking at a Ford man. Ford people the more invested the more twisted or kooky. Carl or Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde. Brad the defending champ, the good time feel good guy, he drunk to celebrate prior to Ford. He wont be getting drunk in public anymore because Miller doesn't need to be associated with losing (or Ford now people would be thinking the poor man needs it just to survive another Ford day)'.

Dodge couldnt help him either and the esteemed Penske couldn't help him.
Finally the compassionate folks at Chevrolet decided to salvage his life. They broke him in gently with Finches humble team, the culture shock of having cars that are actually functioning race cars might have been to much at once. This year he advanced to Furniture Row as an intermediate step.

Next year he finally gets the good stuff, a happy ending to a bittersweet story. If he had been originally given the good stuff (a chevy) he would probably be one of America's most loved individuals. He would probably be as mellow as Mister Rodgers while being more badass than 5 time.
Click to expand...

A broken clock is correct twice a day.
 
One of the problems with Ford is that Jack is controlling too much. If you run Fords you are stuck with his stuff. They need another organization to break off and do their own thing. Penske can do that. But they are still stuck with Roush engines. Jack needs to get out of the way. I think he is part of the problem and not the solution. Plus, Jack is a tightwad!
 
#17D500winner said:
Yeah, that's what it is and Keselowski and Logano are victims yet again.
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ElliottFan said:
One of the problems with Ford is that Jack is controlling too much. If you run Fords you are stuck with his stuff. They need another organization to break off and do their own thing. Penske can do that. But they are still stuck with Roush engines. Jack needs to get out of the way. I think he is part of the problem and not the solution. Plus, Jack is a tightwad!
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This^
 
FenderBumper said:
Again, Jack and Yates have a deal with Ford to be the single engine producer. Ford wouldn't break that deal, even to get Penske. Penske was hot on Ford partly because they were the most eager to introduce the Gen6, and Toyota was probably his only other choice. Chevy already runs half the field. Why he didn't go to Toyota, seeing how Dodge is foreign owned too, is puzzling. Toyota would have allowed him to continue to build engines, and they have been running better than Ford for some time now.

Penske will get it turned around. He's too big and rich for Ford to risk losing again. Perhaps he will agree to share his engineering with Roush in exchange for a piece, and some control, of the engine business.
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dude, noone is stopping anyone from building engines right now. penske can build their own motors if they want. ford doesn't have a deal that says yates must build all the ford engines. toyota doesn't have a deal that says TRD must build the engines. there are quite a few teams running triad toyota engines. The reality is COST. its cheaper to just buy (lease) engines from roush than it is to build their own. plus yates motors have a reputation for being very good. The are also typically very reliable with the exception of this year. So if you can buy whats been the best engines for cheaper than you can make them why not??

even joe gibbs quit building cup engines and just buys TRD motors. I think they do still make the nationwide engines though. You guys are placing too much of a performance factor on engines. your not going to really see 30-40 hp on the track. no ford is not lacking in the HP department, go back and watch lagano's michigan win, watch his car in relation to others as the cars got to the ends of the straightaways. when cars are even off the corner and pretty much at the start finish line and lagano's car pulls past after that, his car had a very good engine. RFR problems I think are lack of funding is beginning to show itself. Of the major teams they are the least sponsored. The have pieced up deals and last minutes deals sold at a discount. Stenhouse has sponsorship on his car but how much did they have to lower the price to get it. I suspect alot.

penske spends the most on their cars of any of the teams. The problem with penske I think is because they are on their own island. They have all the funding and research on their cars but not near as much feedback from a variety of sources to be able to really harness all the money they are spending. I think if they affiliated with other teams OR expanded to 4 cars with and put a big name driver in the car they would really take off and become a HMS type organization.
 
hidesert cowboy said:
dude, noone is stopping anyone from building engines right now. penske can build their own motors if they want. ford doesn't have a deal that says yates must build all the ford engines. toyota doesn't have a deal that says TRD must build the engines. there are quite a few teams running triad toyota engines. The reality is COST. its cheaper to just buy (lease) engines from roush than it is to build their own. plus yates motors have a reputation for being very good. The are also typically very reliable with the exception of this year. So if you can buy whats been the best engines for cheaper than you can make them why not??

even joe gibbs quit building cup engines and just buys TRD motors. I think they do still make the nationwide engines though. You guys are placing too much of a performance factor on engines. your not going to really see 30-40 hp on the track. no ford is not lacking in the HP department, go back and watch lagano's michigan win, watch his car in relation to others as the cars got to the ends of the straightaways. when cars are even off the corner and pretty much at the start finish line and lagano's car pulls past after that, his car had a very good engine. RFR problems I think are lack of funding is beginning to show itself. Of the major teams they are the least sponsored. The have pieced up deals and last minutes deals sold at a discount. Stenhouse has sponsorship on his car but how much did they have to lower the price to get it. I suspect alot.

penske spends the most on their cars of any of the teams. The problem with penske I think is because they are on their own island. They have all the funding and research on their cars but not near as much feedback from a variety of sources to be able to really harness all the money they are spending. I think if they affiliated with other teams OR expanded to 4 cars with and put a big name driver in the car they would really take off and become a HMS type organization.
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Woah woah woah HDC... not going to argue, but all your info...where did you get it from?
 
The cheapest and best way is to have a designated engine builder HDC. Nobody is going out and fill a space with multi million dollar machinery to build engines without a long term contract. These aren't Harbor Freight drill presses they are buying, but top of the line machinery.
 
StandOnIt said:
The cheapest and best way is to have a designated engine builder HDC. Nobody is going out and fill a space with multi million dollar machinery to build engines without a long term contract. These aren't Harbor Freight drill presses they are buying, but top of the line machinery.
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like haas cnc's ! ha!
 
StandOnIt said:
The cheapest and best way is to have a designated engine builder HDC. Nobody is going out and fill a space with multi million dollar machinery to build engines without a long term contract. These aren't Harbor Freight drill presses they are buying, but top of the line machinery.
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Which begs the question: Penske had a top engine program, which he wanted to continue to use making Ford engines. Ford pushed and pushed until he agreed to use R/Y engines because Ford stated they would only funnel their $'s and engineering help to that program. It's clearly part of the deal between RY and Ford.
 
FenderBumper said:
Which begs the question: Penske had a top engine program, which he wanted to continue to use making Ford engines. Ford pushed and pushed until he agreed to use R/Y engines because Ford stated they would only funnel their $'s and engineering help to that program. It's clearly part of the deal between RY and Ford.
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The Ford engine design is I believe the oldest of the bunch, when they showed up years ago with the FR-9 they were top of the heap. they might have a redesign in the works. It is time as far as I am concerned.
 
StandOnIt said:
The Ford engine design is I believe the oldest of the bunch, when they showed up years ago with the FR-9 they were top of the heap. they might have a redesign in the works. It is time as far as I am concerned.
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The article says the FR9 block is the newest. New heads arrive all the time, so I don't go by that.
 
FR9 ford block came out on 09 and the Mopar came out the same year I believe. Since that time there has been a new Chevy block and also a Toyota block I believe. Yeah, Nascar checks them all for horsepower ratings. But that is just scratching the surface. Pretty good article, short with a lot of pics from hot rod from 09 showing the differences of the Ford and the Mopar engine. This stuff shows up in our cars and trucks which is a good thing. I bolted on a newer set of 360 heads on my older mopar when I went thru the engine. You can tell the difference. Back in the day, you wanted older heads that were made before the smog motors came out 72 and earlier to make horse power. not anymore

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_0911_nascar_race_engines/viewall.html
 
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The thing is that Roush is the biggest promoter of the FR9 because he sells the damn thing. The reputation it has is largely built on what the Ford guys like him and Yates are saying. Yeah it's been solid, especially when running on the plate tracks. But don't tell me it's better than a Hendrick engine or even a TRD engine, otherwise they'd be more competitive if it was truly the best. Like I've said before I think last year you could make the case for the Penske Dodge engines being the best.

I agree with Elliotfan, what they need as a brand is another strong organization to build a rival Ford engine and break away from RY. As far as Ford is concerned all their eggs are in one basket and let's just say that basket has seem to have some holes in it. Right now, in my estimation Penske has superior chassis and or setups and that's why I believe they've been better than RFR this year. If they were able to build their own engines again, then all of a sudden there's more competition within the brand which will likely drive more innovation. It would give Ford affiliated teams more options in terms of packages they might want to buy. Right now RFR pretty much has a monopoly on all things Ford.
 
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