IS IT THE DRIVER OR CAR??

StandOnIt said:
I remember when Kahne came in to Nascar off of the dirt. Could have changed the number to the 42 and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference, he ran up high and he was fast and a contender. Personality was different too. I don't know when was the last time I have seen him belly laugh. He is painful to watch and a terrible interview. Sorry current fans but I used to be a Kahne fan myself. He drove a Dodge.
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Bang on. What happened to that guy?
 
Ok I have a question to all the NASCAR gods! Ok here it is, ever since the 22 team got caught with whateva they was doing to there car they haven't ran good at all.. it was one time I looked on the screen st Kentucky and he was mid 20's I mean they haven't been nowhere close to what they once was! So my question is it really the driver or all car?? This is why I made this thread to begin with.. before I started watching the sport I really thought it was a level playing field and the person behind the wheel is what won the race. But the more and more I watch it's like it's all crew chiefs and and engineers are the ones that's really winning on Saturday and sundays and not the drivers.. it's like what ever team have the best tech and engineers are the ones thats going to win.. so what are we really watching these days?:idunno: To me it seems like crew and engineers battle every week not drivers
 
Kentucky isn't one of Logano's better tracks. I don't know if you know this or not but if you want more info on some of this stuff you can google (drivers name) and stats..like Joey Logano stats and that will give you a site called racing reference

In this case by picking the 18 on 2017 you get all of Logano's finishing positions on each track, then pick kentucky and you get every finish position Logano has had at Kentucky and you get this: Just something you might be interested in.

http://www.racing-reference.info/rquery?id=loganjo01&trk=187&series=W
 
Thegeneral23 said:
Ok I have a question to all the NASCAR gods! Ok here it is, ever since the 22 team got caught with whateva they was doing to there car they haven't ran good at all.. it was one time I looked on the screen st Kentucky and he was mid 20's I mean they haven't been nowhere close to what they once was! So my question is it really the driver or all car?? This is why I made this thread to begin with.. before I started watching the sport I really thought it was a level playing field and the person behind the wheel is what won the race. But the more and more I watch it's like it's all crew chiefs and and engineers are the ones that's really winning on Saturday and sundays and not the drivers.. it's like what ever team have the best tech and engineers are the ones thats going to win.. so what are we really watching these days?:idunno: To me it seems like crew and engineers battle every week not drivers
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another thing, Logano got caught, but what you don't know is probably some other teams were doing the same thing or similar, so the jig is up on that little mod Nascar is going to be looking for that. So sometimes it isn't just Logano that has to change up the car.
 
StandOnIt said:
another thing, Logano got caught, but what you don't know is probably some other teams were doing the same thing or similar, so the jig is up on that little mod Nascar is going to be looking for that. So sometimes it isn't just Logano that has to change up the car.
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I'm not just talking bout the logano at Kentucky though I said he hasn't rah well since they caught them doing whateva they was doing ..
 
you form your own opinion. Mine is sometimes it IS the car, Sometimes it isn't, and sometimes it is both. But everybody is working their tales off..some more than others. There is no "right" answer. But all of them have better tracks than others. Darell Waltrip won Bristol 7 times in a row.
 
StandOnIt said:
you form your own opinion. Mine is sometimes it IS the car, Sometimes it isn't, and sometimes it is both. But everybody is working their tales off..some more than others. There is no "right" answer. But all of them have better tracks than others. Darell Waltrip won Bristol 7 times in a row.
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Ok ok cool thanks for your opinion
 
StandOnIt said:
you form your own opinion. Mine is sometimes it IS the car, Sometimes it isn't, and sometimes it is both. But everybody is working their tales off..some more than others. There is no "right" answer. But all of them have better tracks than others. Darell Waltrip won Bristol 7 times in a row.
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Look at Harvicks domination of Phoenix as well
 
Thegeneral23 said:
Ok thank you , but I wasn't just talking bout him. I was just going off of him.. for you read my whole post? What do you think of whole ?
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Some folks will disagree with this but from different interviews and articles I have read over the years about Nascar the tracks that take the most complete set of driver skills are short tracks and road courses.

Unless JLo is running up front I don't pay much attention to him but there are so many variables that go into where a driver finishes it is hard to pin it on one thing. I think he is a good driver and can really maximize the car's potential if it is running well but I think he lacks the ability to get good finishes if the car is not what it should be. I am sure whatever Penske was busted for has hurt the performance of the 2 & 22 and the team is trying to figure out a way to get an advantage back. This is all just my opinion and I don't think you will ever get a definitive answer.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
Some folks will disagree with this but from different interviews and articles I have read over the years about Nascar the tracks that take the most complete set of driver skills are short tracks and road courses.

Unless JLo is running up front I don't pay much attention to him but there are so many variables that go into where a driver finishes it is hard to pin it on one thing. I think he is a good driver and can really maximize the car's potential if it is running well but I think he lacks the ability to get good finishes if the car is not what it should be. I am sure whatever Penske was busted for has hurt the performance of the 2 & 22 and the team is trying to figure out a way to get an advantage back. This is all just my opinion and I don't think you will ever get a definitive answer.
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Agreed about Joey here. He has the talent to go fast, don't think he quite has the versatility to adjust his line and make his car work if it isn't driving to his liking
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
Some folks will disagree with this but from different interviews and articles I have read over the years about Nascar the tracks that take the most complete set of driver skills are short tracks and road courses.

Unless JLo is running up front I don't pay much attention to him but there are so many variables that go into where a driver finishes it is hard to pin it on one thing. I think he is a good driver and can really maximize the car's potential if it is running well but I think he lacks the ability to get good finishes if the car is not what it should be. I am sure whatever Penske was busted for has hurt the performance of the 2 & 22 and the team is trying to figure out a way to get an advantage back. This is all just my opinion and I don't think you will ever get a definitive answer.
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Thanks for the response bro.. I just like to hear people views on this
 
I will put it this way. If Jimmie Johnson was in the 78 he would probably lap the field in most races.
 
kyle18fan said:
You would think that the 48 would be up to par ... considering the vast resources available. Heck ..... the 24 seems to be running quite well.
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I think the 48 driver may be on the backside of his career. He will still win but they are going to get fewer and fewer as time goes on. Hope I’m wrong though...
 
Ford 222 said:
I think the 48 driver may be on the backside of his career. He will still win but they are going to get fewer and fewer as time goes on. Hope I’m wrong though...
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It is a possibility that the fire is going out .......... a wife and kids can do that to a guy
 
kyle18fan said:
It is a possibility that the fire is going out .......... a wife and kids can do that to a guy
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Don't think the fire is gone. See his post race interview? He wants to win BAD. He'll be going nuts when he wins again. Plus look what he did last year with good cars.

Had a top 5 car the last two races. He'll win before the season is up.

Although, I do think he hangs it up after this contract. JJ has one more push left in him. He's got another 10 wins or so left in his career I think
 
Mostly car. Some drivers suck so bad they can't win in anything (Danica) but no way Truex was only good enough to win 3 races in a decade but now he suddenly got better at driving and can win a race a month.
 
Cholo said:
Mostly car. Some drivers suck so bad they can't win in anything (Danica) but no way Truex was only good enough to win 3 races in a decade but now he suddenly got better at driving and can win a race a month.
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yeah I said 75/25% car in Truex's case. With a multi car team is is easier to gauge the car or the driver IMO. Harvick, KDB, Johnson, Larson it's the driver. Penske next year should be interesting, should be pretty close
 
It's the proverbial Chicken or the Egg question. One does not happen without the other. I feel Martin has come a long way in his growth along with currently having good equipment and a well oiled team. I feel he was always good but his equipment was not up to speed. So far they keep passing inspections after the races, so far. We will see how it all washes out.

Look at JJ, he hasn't been able to find his butt with a base fiddle lately, (and I am so glad), but that is due to not having the setup on the car correct or they are that far behind in things, hard to tell really.
 
From my 2 years of watching NASCAR I can tell it's all car.. well I said about 85% car and that's way way way to much to be a professional sport in my eyes. It's like anyone that comes up threw the ranks can drive one of these cars.. maybe you could show your true skill coming up threw the ranks but at the highest level it's all car and money.. people always say well you can't do it, yea you might be be right but if I drove race cars for years I could.. the cup level is all about the car and that's it.. I never seen truex take a 10 place car and finish higher than expected .. that's since I been watching.. the 15% I give drivers is where Kyle Busch takes a 10th place car and put it in top 5 or Jimmie drive a car up front.. other than that these drivers are driving right where the car is suppose to do that day nothing more... yes I love watching and love the sport.. but it's all car and the drivers no that too.. it's like NASCAR fans try to give these drivers the benefit of doubt but it's all car, but I still love to watch lol
 
If it was so much about drivers these owners would be holding on to some of the older guys lol.. they even know it's all about the car lol, they can plug anybody in there and pay them less.. I think it's sad to be honest..
 
There's still a big difference between an average driver and a good/great one. Look at the 18 car going from JJ Yeley to Kyle Busch, the 5 car from Casey Mears to Mark Martin, the 78 from Regan Smith to Kurt Busch, etc......instant results (dramatic performance improvement) as soon as a better driver got in the car
 
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2 Sweet said:
There's still a big difference between an average driver and a good/great one. Look at the 18 car going from JJ Yeley to Kyle Busch, the 5 car from Casey Mears to Mark Martin, the 78 from Regan Smith to Kurt Busch, etc......instant results (dramatic performance improvement) as soon as a better driver got in the car
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I just think the 78 car has got better from all the notes from the Gibbs organization and they hit on something nobody has.. really don't think it's Truex all of a sudden
 
78 get the chassis from Jibbs and they hangs their own bodies.
 
Taco said:
78 get the chassis from Jibbs and they hangs their own bodies.
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All the drivers has stated countless times.. the 78 get everything from them and they have the same thing the 78 has.. meaning that the 78 is getting all the good stuff just like Gibbs drivers are.. I think they hit on one lil thing that the Gibbs drivers hasn't , well we all know they hit on something lol.. they wasn't this good before they lined up with Gibbs!
 
Put Jimmie Johnson or Kyle Busch in the 37 or similar and they will win exactly 0 races.

Put Chris Buscher in the 48 or 18 and he will be in contention every week.

A great driver is just another piece of the puzzle. 48 has half the wins without Chad Knaus, IMO. 48 also would have half the wins with a driver not named Jimmie Johnson. It's the entire team put together just right that gets the W's.

Where was the supposed GOAT Kyle Busch when he was driving for Hendrick? Not racking up a ton of wins, that's for sure. But driving for Gibbs, he is arguably top-2 or 3 active on the circuit.

It's the whole package. But without a great car, you don't even get a chance.
 
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DSquad48 said:
Put Jimmie Johnson or Kyle Busch in the 37 or similar and they will win exactly 0 races.

Put Chris Buscher in the 48 or 18 and he will be in contention every week.

A great driver is just another piece of the puzzle. 48 has half the wins without Chad Knaus, IMO. 48 also would have half the wins with a driver not named Jimmie Johnson. It's the team put together the way it is that gets the W's. Where was the supposed GOAT Kyle Busch when he was driving for Hendrick? Not racking up a ton of wins, that's for sure. But driving for Gibbs, he is arguably top-2 or 3 active on the circuit.

It's the whole package. But without a great car, you don't even get a chance.
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Well said.. I wasn't watching back when Kyle drove for Hendrick but didn't he win some races for them ?
 
Thegeneral23 said:
Well said.. I wasn't watching back when Kyle drove for Hendrick but didn't he win some races for them ?
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A total of 4 wins over 3 years. Nothing to sneeze at, for sure, but it's nothing compared to his performance at Gibbs. He won 8 races in his first year at Gibbs. The team is always going to be a major factor.
 
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