Is it time for NASCAR to take a hard look at racing with race tires on all tracks?

wi_racefan said:
I think you're forgetting that not man fans are going to want to sit in the stands to watch this. This year is the exception due to Covid, but ticket sales are still a lot of money
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TV Money far exceeds the money from ticket sales, its equally easy to say fans tuning in to watch a race at a certain time and it is on rain delay is losing fans/ad revenue and people change the channel and may not change it back.
 
JGR_20 said:
I just don’t think the product would be something most would enjoy. It sounds exciting and all, but after seeing the chaos that would take place one time, I don’t think many would want to see NASCAR make it commonplace.

As another person mentioned, martinsville might be the most realistic place to run in the rain, and the racing be decent
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why would it be commonplace? To me if ascar could have it so that 80-90% of its races happened at or near the posted start time every race, it would be a benefit
 
Bigpaulie1979 said:
TV Money far exceeds the money from ticket sales, its equally easy to say fans tuning in to watch a race at a certain time and it is on rain delay is losing fans/ad revenue and people change the channel and may not change it back.
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Only us fanatical racing fans deal with all of the channel changing and re scheduling and even then most of us think it is a big hassle. I can only imagine how much of a mess and loss of revenue it is for the TV people, racing teams and the drop in revenue for having to stay extra days. It far outweighs fans in the stands.
 
maybe Nascar's money crunchers have found out it would not be profitable for them to make this change..after all, Nascar has been in the money making business for quite awhile..
 
Bigpaulie1979 said:
why would it be commonplace? To me if ascar could have it so that 80-90% of its races happened at or near the posted start time every race, it would be a benefit
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I see the benefit of using them as a true last resort... but that means waiting through a 24 hour window trying to find time to dry the track... then after a day of weather, put the tires on just so they can get the race in the books.

I just don’t think these cars would be fun to watch in rain. I could be wrong
 
Snappy D said:
well I've sat at Soldier Field at -7 degrees in December to watch NFL so if rain tires were figured out and it had happened to be at a track I was at or attending I think I'd go for sure. Of course thats just me and I see your point some might not want to sit in the rain for a 500 mile race, I however am not one of them. I probably would and would have a fun time too.
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I've also spent hours outside in those temps but rain is a completely different animal. People can dress warm for cold weather, but no one likes being wet. I think you would see like 10% attendance if any significant amount of rain is coming down
 
wi_racefan said:
I've also spent hours outside in those temps but rain is a completely different animal. People can dress warm for cold weather, but no one likes being wet. I think you would see like 10% attendance if any significant amount of rain is coming down
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Ya think the advertizers would ask for 10% of their money back if the race is moved to another day with dismal attendance. I bet more than that.
 
NASCAR has been manufacturing “drama“ for years. I would rather see five races in the rain on an oval then another road course added.
 
Even with rain tires, I don't see how they could go full throttle and keep the cars straight. They'd try pushing too hard which would be mayhem. I feel It'd be a disaster.
 
Brentford said:
Even with rain tires, I don't see how they could go full throttle and keep the cars straight. They'd try pushing too hard which would be mayhem. I feel It'd be a disaster.
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They won't go full throttle, they, the better ones anyway, will drive the car on the edge of control matching the conditions of the track. That's racing, wet or dry.
 
The drivers can only go as fast as a track will allow them. A track with traction compound will allow more speed then a track without, and a dry track will allow more speed then a wet one and it is the drivers job to figure out how fast that track will allow. A driver would figure it out and other then dega and tona the speeds would probably be slow enough that it would still remain safe. But as we saw in the roval it would probably be pretty boring compared to our normal excitement standards...but at least they would get the race in and it would definitely make it much easier on NASCAR, the teams, and the fans that watch on tv or are at the race in person. I'm personally good with it either way.
 
The Xfinity "race" at the Charlotte roval was horrible. I hated it.

Granted, all of the issues with cars sliding off the track was on the road course portion, but the road course portion resulted in slower oval speeds.

If those cars were going faster on the oval portion, I imagine racing on the oval portion would've been ugly as well.
 
StandOnIt said:
They did at Charlotte. Showed it could be done on both a flat track and a banked oval. There wasn't any tire problems..that's B.S. they can run a slick into the ground as well as a rain tire..they are tires for christ sake.
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Well. as I pointed out, a Roval is a totally different animal because the tires generally get to run through standing water in the infield and under less load so that by the time the cars go back onto the banking, they have cooled back down. In an oval race, that would not happen. The tires would continue to build heat until they failed OR all the tread wore off. Cold rain tires are about as sticky as a hot slick tire, that tread compound is SOFT. I will also point out that even on the Roval, the lap times were 10-15 seconds off the dry track times. For those that think the 550 HP package is the end of the world, how are they going to take to cars going that much slower for 500 miles? Unless NASCAR shortens the rain races on the fly, the race would likely exceed it's allotted TV window, meaning the race could well be bumped to a lesser channel anyway, one of the things we should supposedly try to eliminate. Then we can also get into a discussion about how many more tires Goodyear would have to build and drag to the track EVERY week, how many sets are the teams going to be allowed to have , and in a time when everybody is screaming cost reduction, how much more will it add to the tire bill? Then we can talk about all the work to keep water out of places it doesn't belong, wiper issues, fogging issues, the list goes on and on. Even sports car teams that deal with this every year sometimes fail badly at these things when you get very much rain.
 
Formerjackman said:
the tires generally get to run through standing water in the infield and under less load so that by the time the cars go back onto the banking, they have cooled back down. In an oval race, that would not happen. The tires would continue to build heat until they failed OR all the tread wore off.
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OR UNTIL THE TEAMS CHOSE TO PIT AND PUT ON UNGROOVED RACING SLICKS.

You keep leaving that out of your calculations.

Formerjackman said:
Then we can also get into a discussion about how many more tires Goodyear would have to build and drag to the track EVERY week, how many sets are the teams going to be allowed to have , and in a time when everybody is screaming cost reduction, how much more will it add to the tire bill? Then we can talk about all the work to keep water out of places it doesn't belong, wiper issues, fogging issues, the list goes on and on.
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And yet other tire manufacturers handle these problems, and other series race anyway.

Formerjackman said:
Even sports car teams that deal with this every year sometimes fail badly at these things when you get very much rain.
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Then don't run when there's very much rain. What they had at Texas today and yesterday was less than a half inch each day. This doesn't have to be 'Run in the rain regardless'. There's plenty of room for judgement calls on NASCAR's part; after all, they already make a judgement call as to when to stop racing when the rain starts.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
OR UNTIL THE TEAMS CHOSE TO PIT AND PUT ON UNGROOVED RACING SLICKS.

You keep leaving that out of your calculations.



And yet other tire manufacturers handle these problems, and other series race anyway.


Then don't run when there's very much rain. What they had at Texas today and yesterday was less than a half inch each day. This doesn't have to be 'Run in the rain regardless'. There's plenty of room for judgement calls on NASCAR's part; after all, they already make a judgement call as to when to stop racing when the rain starts.
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There are PLENTY of situations where it is too wet for slicks, but not wet enough for rain tires. Sportscar and Indy Car teams struggle with this all the time in cars more suited, drivers more experienced, on tracks more accommodating. A few years ago at the Rolex 24, I watched some teams go through about four sets of tires in about 15 laps, bouncing back and forth between wets and slicks as the weather constantly changed. Some series allow an intermediate tire, which complecates things even more. As somebody else pointed out, if this is all so easy, why doesn't Indycar do it? I will also say that the LAST thing I want is for NASCAR to have to make more judgement calls. That's a recipe for disaster.
 
wi_racefan said:
I think you're forgetting that not man fans are going to want to sit in the stands to watch this.
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dog wet.jpg
 
wi_racefan said:
I think you're forgetting that not man fans are going to want to sit in the stands to watch this. This year is the exception due to Covid, but ticket sales are still a lot of money
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It beats standing under the stands waiting for NASCAR to reach a decision.

Any racing is better than no racing, and always better than whatever alternative the networks or tracks have to offer to fill the time.
 
PeopleAreStrange said:
The Xfinity "race" at the Charlotte roval was horrible. I hated it.

Granted, all of the issues with cars sliding off the track was on the road course portion, but the road course portion resulted in slower oval speeds.

If those cars were going faster on the oval portion, I imagine racing on the oval portion would've been ugly as well.
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The Xfinity race was held in it's entirety in a complete downpour and like the Cup race that was held the next day that started out in a light rain/drizzle and dried out driver reports said they were surprised the grip they had on the oval parts of the track.
 
Snappy D said:
It's snowing here in Chicago right now, I cant wait for the thread "Can NASCAR race in the snow and ice" giddy up lets do it.
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]Well it WOULD be fun too watch. At least for the first time it happened.
 
Formerjackman said:
A few years ago at the Rolex 24, I watched some teams go through about four sets of tires in about 15 laps, bouncing back and forth between wets and slicks as the weather constantly changed.
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That's quite a whopper strawman..you got any proof to back that nonsense up?
 
The return of standard start times would be a plus. Any track that is already running 550hp couldn't run through a set of treads as quickly as in years past. Just a big no to restrictor-plate tracks, Pocono, and Michigan... Would include Indy and Cali if they continued to use the same configurations as before.
 
StandOnIt said:
That's quite a whopper strawman..you got any proof to back that nonsense up?
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Do you WATCH much sportscar racing? I have watched ALL 24 hours of the Rolex every year it has been offered since the first time in 2001. That's about 480 hours of that race alone. No, I can't give you the exact race, but I remember situations like that because it generally screws whatever car I am cheering for. If I remember the scenario correctly, the track was wet but drying, so everybody was trying to be the first to go to slicks, but no sooner than they had pitted, the rain started in again and it became too dicey to stay on slicks so they pitted again. About this time a caution came out for a car off the track, the rain basically stopped and cars that had just stopped under green to put wets on, pitted under caution to go back to slicks. Within ten laps of going green, the rain was back, and they were back on wets.
 
Nitro Dude said:
The drivers can only go as fast as a track will allow them. A track with traction compound will allow more speed then a track without, and a dry track will allow more speed then a wet one and it is the drivers job to figure out how fast that track will allow. A driver would figure it out and other then dega and tona the speeds would probably be slow enough that it would still remain safe. But as we saw in the roval it would probably be pretty boring compared to our normal excitement standards...but at least they would get the race in and it would definitely make it much easier on NASCAR, the teams, and the fans that watch on tv or are at the race in person. I'm personally good with it either way.
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I agree with all this. I just didn’t care for what I saw with the Roval... other series I’ve watched racing in the rain... sure they pull it off, but nothing I’m really thrilled to watch.

I just think racing in the rain is a little overhyped. But if its truly used as a last resort to get a race done. Then fine.
 
JGR_20 said:
I agree with all this. I just didn’t care for what I saw with the Roval... other series I’ve watched racing in the rain... sure they pull it off, but nothing I’m really thrilled to watch.

I just think racing in the rain is a little overhyped. But if its truly used as a last resort to get a race done. Then fine.
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Well, using F1 as an example, Some drivers like Senna used to excell in the wet. I know cup cars are much heavier, but let the drivers figure it out.
 
Just a reminder that NASCAR has had a race delayed for 72 hours due to mist.

To be the only sport in the world, including other motorsports, to be deterred by low hanging cloud cover is awful optics.

Putting these cars on a high speed banked oval in actual rain is a physics monster and will probably never happen. But having the ability to race in what amounts to high moisture fog must be accomplished, waiting 72 hours (so far) is befuddling.

Drivers were impressed with the grip level in the banked turns at the Roval. Spend the time and money to Improve on that design and have the best stock car drivers in the world handle the rest.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Here is an opinion from someone who understands the difference between oval racing and roadracing...

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I saw this earlier on Twitter and rereading this... I didn’t even think about needing headlights. When racing in the rain it’s challenging visibility to begin with and then with the splashing water. Yea this would be treacherous, but F1 doesn’t need headlights so there’s that.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Just a reminder that NASCAR has had a race delayed for 72 hours due to mist.
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Yep, not the heavy rain we saw for the Roval X race. Some people insist on treating this question as if rain only came in deluges, and as if rain tires would have to be run for the entire race. We're not talking about getting every race in under all conditions, just to not have so many delayed or stopped when official.
 
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Goodyear has wasted a perfect opportunity to test mist tires.

They’ll have to re-schedule.
 
Snappy D said:
I saw this earlier on Twitter and rereading this... I didn’t even think about needing headlights. When racing in the rain it’s challenging visibility to begin with and then with the splashing water. Yea this would be treacherous, but F1 doesn’t need headlights so there’s that.
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Or taillights or even wipers.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Here is an opinion from someone who understands the difference between oval racing and roadracing...

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Obviously not much thought is given to racing in the rain. Some teams could not even get a windshield wiper to work. If teams knew in advance that they were racing in rain if needed, more effort would be put in place. Also cars could have other pieces added when changing tires and this would deflect the rooster spray. Then there is the resetting of the rev limiter to save drivers from themselves.
Racing in the rain may be boring for some but so is stock market ticker tapes. The idea is to get a race in and give everyone the same chance.
Nascar is currently in the cost cutting mode and finishing this race on Sunday ( boring as hell) would have saved a lot of teams a lot of money.
 
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