Lack of debris

[dpkimmel2001]

Interesting stat from Bob P.


Though it appeared to be triggered by Ricky Stenhouse Jr.’s Ford scraping the wall, the final caution Saturday was sourced to “debris,” marking only the second debris yellow of the season and the first since the season-opening Daytona 500.

Last season, there were nine debris yellows through the first nine races.

This is the lowest total for debris yellows through nine races since at least 1990 (the first season in which caution reasons were listed for every race on Racing-Reference.info). There were four seasons (1990, ’91, ’92 and ’95) with three debris cautions through the first nine races.

As Denny Hamlin and Chase Elliott noted postrace (and many others have said), last year’s implementation of stages came with a tacit understanding that the scheduled yellows would effectively serve as “planned” debris cautions.

NASCAR deserves credit for sticking to the pledge of letting races play out naturally, avoiding the quick-trigger temptation to bunch the field on restarts and draw the justified ire of its teams.


http://nascar.nbcsports.com/2018/04/23/ryan-the-lack-of-gambling-was-the-pits-at-richmond/

 

[Charlie Spencer]

I think the 6-minute clock has also played a role in the reduced amount of debris.

 

[MRM]

I think there are two factors in this. One, the crash clock has a lot to do with it. We're not seeing wrecked cars throwing debris like we used to. Two, I think NASCAR is not as quick to throw the yellow for every little thing as they have done in the past.

 

[lolla79]

Nascar has two rules when it comes to yellow flags: Always screw the older Busch brother over, and save the fan favorites when needed. Since the two biggest fan favorites retired last year, there's no need for that anymore.

 

[DIDIT]

I think the reason for fewer debris cautions is because NASCAR is not throwing bogus debris cautions.Seems pretty simple to me.

 

[ChexOrWrex]

TIL the crash clock has dropped the number of debris cautions caused by water bottles, wall decals, and hotdog wrappers.

 

[StandOnIt]

I think the reason for fewer debris cautions is because NASCAR is not throwing bogus debris cautions.Seems pretty simple to me.

Stage racing has solved the problems of getting the paying sponsors commercials aired. The 5 minute clock has kept the wounded off the track, stopping not only debris but slowing down the after effects of cut tires that come from the debris.

 

[Zerkfitting]

The drivers might be more careful too. Touching another car could mess up the aerodynamics of the car.

There might have been a time when a top team might ask a lesser team for a favor and cause a caution - I'm not saying it happened but I've heard race teams sometimes look outside the rules.

 

[StandOnIt]

The drivers might be more careful too. Touching another car could mess up the aerodynamics of the car.

There might have been a time when a top team might ask a lesser team for a favor and cause a caution - I'm not saying it happened but I've heard race teams sometimes look outside the rules.

lot of drivers with crummy setups on the radio saying debris on the track, now they have to get up on the wheel to get the best finish in the stage, a caution won't help.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

lot of drivers with crummy setups on the radio saying debris on the track, now they have to get up on the wheel to get the best finish in the stage, a caution won't help.

Where's a hunk of roll cage padding when you need it?

 

[Bowman The Showman]

I think NASCAR once again has given fans what they want... or tried to address something that was criticized.

 

[StandOnIt]

I think NASCAR once again has given fans what they want... or tried to address something that was criticized.

for sure. unlike stick n ball that have plenty of interruptions in play for commercial breaks, the stages solve that and another problem. There are set times for commercials now for one, and many complained that the racing in the middle time of the race was boring because of the drivers were just riding. That ain't happening anymore with the points for the stages. Racing is way better now.

 

[Greg]

Interesting stat from Bob P.


Though it appeared to be triggered by Ricky Stenhouse Jr.’s Ford scraping the wall, the final caution Saturday was sourced to “debris,” marking only the second debris yellow of the season and the first since the season-opening Daytona 500.

Last season, there were nine debris yellows through the first nine races.

This is the lowest total for debris yellows through nine races since at least 1990 (the first season in which caution reasons were listed for every race on Racing-Reference.info). There were four seasons (1990, ’91, ’92 and ’95) with three debris cautions through the first nine races.

As Denny Hamlin and Chase Elliott noted postrace (and many others have said), last year’s implementation of stages came with a tacit understanding that the scheduled yellows would effectively serve as “planned” debris cautions.

NASCAR deserves credit for sticking to the pledge of letting races play out naturally, avoiding the quick-trigger temptation to bunch the field on restarts and draw the justified ire of its teams.


http://nascar.nbcsports.com/2018/04/23/ryan-the-lack-of-gambling-was-the-pits-at-richmond/

Very much preferred over the previous debris overuse.

 

[Mispeedway15]

I think the stages give the crews time to clear the track as well

 

[ChexOrWrex]

I think NASCAR once again has given fans what they want... or tried to address something that was criticized.

And then added stages, which not a single sane fan advocated for.

Thanks. I guess.

 

[StandOnIt]

I think NASCAR once again has given fans what they want... or tried to address something that was criticized.

yep it has been a decent solution for all involved.

 

[AtomicPunk55]

And then added stages, which not a single sane fan advocated for.

Thanks. I guess.

Stage racing was what the people had been asking for even though no one new what it was.

IMO if they have to have stages at least don't stop the damn race and if commercials need to be run when the race is on then so be it.

 

[nitetrain]

It is great to know the truth finally on something most of us non " Nascar Kool Aid" drinking people suspected for a long time. Nascar manipulated the races in some cases and didn't let the race naturally play out. A little like WWE don't you think? But hey all sports manipulate the game. The talking heads are saying how the NBA refs swallow the whistle and give the stars the call.

As far as the stages making for less green flag commercials i wonder if that is true. The broadcasts still go 10 laps and go to commercial just like before the stages. Also the broadcasters need "X" amount of money per broadcast and if the ratings are down the rate charged per ad is lower. So in my mind with lower ad rates more ads have to be shown to cover the fixed cost the broadcasters bid per race in the TV contract.

 

[BobbyFord]

“...NASCAR deserves credit for sticking to the pledge of letting races play out naturally...”

NASCAR deserves credit for realizing too late that the barn door is open and the cow is gone.
NASCAR deserves credit for manipulating races and for allowing Carl Edwards to do something else for a living.

 

[StandOnIt]

It is great to know the truth finally on something most of us non " Nascar Kool Aid" drinking people suspected for a long time. Nascar manipulated the races in some cases and didn't let the race naturally play out. A little like WWE don't you think? But hey all sports manipulate the game. The talking heads are saying how the NBA refs swallow the whistle and give the stars the call.

As far as the stages making for less green flag commercials i wonder if that is true. The broadcasts still go 10 laps and go to commercial just like before the stages. Also the broadcasters need "X" amount of money per broadcast and if the ratings are down the rate charged per ad is lower. So in my mind with lower ad rates more ads have to be shown to cover the fixed cost the broadcasters bid per race in the TV contract.

I don't see why they even dribble the ball in the NBA anymore. great sport? in watching a 7 footer reach up a whole 3 feet to make a bucket,
The statistics show more racing is shown.BTW there isn't any less commercials and there haven't been more of them in the last two years either. What has changed is the amount of the race that fans can see on TV.

 

[sdj]

I don't see why they even dribble the ball in the NBA anymore. great sport? in watching a 7 footer reach up a whole 3 feet to make a bucket,
The statistics show more racing is shown.BTW there isn't any less commercials and there haven't been more of them in the last two years either. What has changed is the amount of the race that fans can see on TV.

Commercials? What commercials? I record via DVR and skip through the commercials.

 

[StandOnIt]

I prefer live, I had to record them for years, been there and done that. Beats a blank as they say. I missed a few because of weather delays. And I have only had XM radio for a spell. If I ever hear Moody scream again it would be too soon. But yeah you do what ya go to do to follow the series.

 

[ChexOrWrex]

Stage racing was what the people had been asking for even though no one new what it was.

IMO if they have to have stages at least don't stop the damn race and if commercials need to be run when the race is on then so be it.

When they first announced stages I was hoping it would just be a record of positions taken at X lap intervals without stopping the race.

Nope. It was more than I feared

Oh well.

The “we cant do commercials only under stages and yellow flags” excuse is BS. Soccer doesn't go to commercial at all during play because it’s a continuous sport. No reason they cannot do the same with NASCAR considering that the sport is already a rolling billboard.

 

[sdj]

I prefer live, I had to record them for years, been there and done that. Beats a blank as they say. I missed a few because of weather delays. And I have only had XM radio for a spell. If I ever hear Moody scream again it would be too soon. But yeah you do what ya go to do to follow the series.

The new DVR's are really fast, click 3 times and back to racing, that is the average length of commercials during a race. I view Nascar Racing as nothing more than entertainment and to be totally honest we do not what live TV of any kind anymore at our house. If we are watching it is has been recorded. My time is valuable to me and I like the flexibility the DVR affords you, but hay, that's just me.

 

[AtomicPunk55]

Commercials? What commercials? I record via DVR and skip through the commercials.

I have been recording the races since the VHS days for a variety of reasons. If I could think of a benefit to watching the races live I would do it but I can't. Maybe some folks that watch live could list some reasons why they like it that way.

 

[kyle18fan]

The new DVR's are really fast, click 3 times and back to racing, that is the average length of commercials during a race. I view Nascar Racing as nothing more than entertainment and to be totally honest we do not what live TV of any kind anymore at our house. If we are watching it is has been recorded. My time is valuable to me and I like the flexibility the DVR affords you, but hay, that's just me.

We WILL NOT watch anything live or watch any commercials. There is absolutely no possibility that I could watch a race live on television

 

[PeopleAreStrange]

I'm glad NASCAR has stopped blatantly manipulating races. Seems like they are finally listening to their fans.

Maybe there's some hope that the playoffs will actually go away someday.

 

[ReturnTrip]

Hopefully they'll do away with the Chase and stages in the coming years.

We've had the Chase system for 15 years now. The Winston Cup system was around for about 30 years. 15 years is a good trial run, might be time for a new look.

 

[FLRacingFan]

For many years, you were called a conspiracy theorist/tinfoil hatter/whatever if you thought NASCAR exercised some influence over the races through Race Control.

The debris has not just begun to vanish into thin air.

 

[Marcingak]

The new DVR's are really fast, click 3 times and back to racing, that is the average length of commercials during a race. I view Nascar Racing as nothing more than entertainment and to be totally honest we do not what live TV of any kind anymore at our house. If we are watching it is has been recorded. My time is valuable to me and I like the flexibility the DVR affords you, but hay, that's just me.

Same here. The $15 monthly DVR fee is well worth it.

 

[Marcingak]

I have been recording the races since the VHS days for a variety of reasons. If I could think of a benefit to watching the races live I would do it but I can't. Maybe some folks that watch live could list some reasons why they like it that way.

I think the main benefit of watching races live is that you don't have to worry about someone spoiling the race results for you.

 

[gnomesayin]

I agree that stages were essentially a replacement for debris cautions, as empirically shown by this evidence, and also was an evolution of the rejected caution clock experiment. The difference between designated stage breaks and entertainment debris cautions is the lack of lying. I am no fan and never will be, but at least there is that.

 

[BobbyFord]

I agree that stages were essentially a replacement for debris cautions, and also was an evolution of the rejected caution clock experiment. The difference between designated stage breaks and entertainment debris cautions is the lack of lying. I am no fan and never will be, but at least there is that.

If someone tells you when they're going to lie, it's still lying.

 

[Team Penske]

Stage racing was what the people had been asking for even though no one new what it was.

IMO if they have to have stages at least don't stop the damn race and if commercials need to be run when the race is on then so be it.

People have always known what stage racing is and every driver has done it. It used to be called "heat races" and that's how you got to the main.
I don't understand why people are whining about it.

 

[BobbyFord]

People have always known what stage racing is and every driver has done it. It used to be called "heat races" and that's how you got to the main.
I don't understand why people are whining about it.

I don't think anybody is "whining." I think it's a legitimate complaint to dislike pauses in the competition that never existed. This isn't 75 lap dirt track racing.

 

[gnomesayin]

People have always known what stage racing is and every driver has done it. It used to be called "heat races" and that's how you got to the main.
I don't understand why people are whining about it.

Well, not quite. Heat races are a method of qualification for the main event. Sometimes they are rather meaningless if there aren't actual eliminations. "Stages" of the same overall race exist in some other forms of racing, but they are usually stoppages necessitated by realities such as cyclists can't ride the Tour de France for three weeks straight without stopping.

NASCAR figured out how to implement their desire to have more cautions / breaks in the race in a way that a majority of fans accepted. Good for them, I guess. I still think it is worthwhile to point out the truth about the debris cautions that preceded them, and the option is clearly on the table for them to expand the number of stages per race in the future. They're always 'enhancing', don't you know.

 

[StandOnIt]

People can complain, whine, expound, or whatever it is called. They have the track, the cars, the series, and Nascar and the stakeholders involved in the business of racing make the rules however they see fit. They have been doing it for years and a person is free to come up with whatever name they can come up with to call them. nobody is kneeling or asking for a handout from anybody.

 

[kyle18fan]

People can complain, whine, expound, or whatever it is called. They have the track, the cars, the series, and Nascar and the stakeholders involved in the business of racing make the rules however they see fit. They have been doing it for years and a person is free to come up with whatever name they can come up with to call them. nobody is kneeling or asking for a handout from anybody.

The fans pay for it all ...... every damned penny comes from the fans in one way or another. If Nascar displeases enough fans they will cease to exist.

 

[kyle18fan]

People have always known what stage racing is and every driver has done it. It used to be called "heat races" and that's how you got to the main.
I don't understand why people are whining about it.

Every driver competing in the stage races is making it to the main in Nascar ....... there is no comparison at all. Stage racing in Nascar is nothing more than a planned caution flag and an interruption of a perfectly good race

 

[BobbyFord]

And they complain that there are too many commercials during the race (I was one) So Nascar comes up with a solution that gives the fans more viewing of the race, and improves the middle of the races. I'm completely convinced that Nascar fans are the worst for Nascar. It is no wonder they quit paying attention a long time ago.

There aren’t any commercials or breaks when you attend the races live yet attendance is also down.