Las Vegas Grand Prix (2023)

The Nature Boy said:
Could you imagine the social media meltdown if NASCAR had a race with even a fraction of these problems? This is an even bigger fiasco than that one Indy race where everyone’s tires kept coming apart.
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FWIW there is a social media meltdown.

But the “I hate NASCAR” crowd is trying to downplay this.

There’s also this:



And this:



People are just finding ways to bash NASCAR. Can’t just praise that NASCAR pulled this off successfully.

I find the revisionist history of peak-NASCAR to be something else. First Cup race I ever went to, I met Tony Stewart and several others. I used to go to Richmond for $120 (both days) and there were always fan zones where you met Jimmie Johnson, Kevin Harvick, Robby Gordon and so on.

Richard Petty has never refused an autograph.

But sure… let’s claim NASCAR used to be like this.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
FWIW there is a social media meltdown.

But the “I hate NASCAR” crowd is trying to downplay this.

There’s also this:



And this:



People are just finding ways to bash NASCAR. Can’t just praise that NASCAR pulled this off successfully.

I find the revisionist history of peak-NASCAR to be something else. First Cup race I ever went to, I met Tony Stewart and several others. I used to go to Richmond for $120 (both days) and there were always fan zones where you met Jimmie Johnson, Kevin Harvick, Robby Gordon and so on.

Richard Petty has never refused an autograph.

But sure… let’s claim NASCAR used to be like this.
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Denny Hamlin’s sole purpose is to cater to the anti-NASCAR crowd. He’s one of the most toxic people in the sport. I hope he never wins a championship, he would be a terrible ambassador.

Meeting a NASCAR driver during race weekend is the easiest damn thing in sports.
 
The Nature Boy said:
Denny Hamlin’s sole purpose is to cater to the anti-NASCAR crowd. He’s one of the most toxic people in the sport. I hope he never wins a championship, he would be a terrible ambassador.

Meeting a NASCAR driver during race weekend is the easiest damn thing in sports.
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There was a point where sponsors would tie drivers up so they couldn’t. I remember Tony Stewart complaining one time about sponsor and media obligations being a barrier between racers and fans.

But even then, there were shows on SPEED and NASCAR.com like Trackside where they’d do driver interviews and the drivers would hang around.

Tony Stewart signed autographs at Homestead-Miami for FOUR HOURS one night. When they were about to turn everyone away, Tony said he was staying until every person in line got to meet him. That’s when I became a fan.

F1 drivers don’t meet with fans. And expect celebs to meet with them. Hell, look at how Martin Brundle gets his panties twisted anytime a celebrity doesn’t talk to him. F1 literally had to implement a rule requiring them too, because the F1 community is that damn pretentious.
 
The Nature Boy said:
This whole experience should hopefully bring them off their high horse. Not only did NASCAR successfully pull off a street race (with no experience) but they did so with a layout and set up that showcased their host city.
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I couldn’t even see or hear the fans last night. Every other F1 race has an electric atmosphere.

NASCAR is a working man’s sport. Hell, look at how people get up in arms over $250 ticket packages. Most of these races are super affordable.

Again, during the boom, I was buying Cup tickets for $90 and Xfinity tickets for $30. The one complaint I have is that, with these limits on practice and stuff, NASCAR races aren’t the same.

Fridays and Saturdays (or Friday, in the case of Richmond) used to build the event up.
 
F1 and NASCAR (and Indycar, TBF) are both radically different things from what they once were and there's plenty of fans of both whom have found the changes made not to their likings. No one in motorsport provides better access for fans than the NHRA and really IMSA among "big car series" comes closest to NHRA in spite of also being the de facto most "elitist" in North America. Also, nothing is as good as dirt open wheel racing. There, now everyone can be mad.
 
The Nature Boy said:
Which streaming service will get the inevitable documentary that comes out of this?

Will ESPN care about this fiasco enough to make a 30 for 30?
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After Disney invariably divests of ESPN there won't be a dime available for such a thing.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
I wonder what’s gonna happen when Disney sells off ESPN.

I don’t think Amazon realizes how much money that network bleeds.
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Amazon does, but the sports properties matter a lot for them in getting people to really start using the service. Also I guess there's some sort of docudrama on the network revolving around 24 Hours of LeMons or Champ Car so maybe I should be watching it too?
 
virtualbalboa said:
F1 and NASCAR (and Indycar, TBF) are both radically different things from what they once were and there's plenty of fans of both whom have found the changes made not to their likings. No one in motorsport provides better access for fans than the NHRA and really IMSA among "big car series" comes closest to NHRA in spite of also being the de facto most "elitist" in North America. Also, nothing is as good as dirt open wheel racing. There, now everyone can be mad.
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WoO is good too, Logan Schuchart won the race at Bridgeport back in 2021, I after the race got to walk right up and talk to him at the car back in the pits afterwards.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
I wonder what’s gonna happen when Disney sells off ESPN.

I don’t think Amazon realizes how much money that network bleeds.
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ESPN's initial value was providing breaking sports news and scores before you could pull out your phone and get that information within seconds. SportsCenter in the 90s was peak ESPN. They tried to pivot to talking heads, but I can also pull out my phone and read uninformed opinions within a matter of seconds.
 
kkfan91 said:
WoO is good too, Logan Schuchart won the race at Bridgeport back in 2021, I after the race got to walk right up and talk to him at the car back in the pits afterwards.
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You gotta buy a pit pass though, whereas IMSA and NHRA both include one with the ticket. Occasionally Indycar does too, but now we're getting ahead of ourselves.
 
virtualbalboa said:
You gotta buy a pit pass though, whereas IMSA and NHRA both include one with the ticket. Occasionally Indycar does too, but now we're getting ahead of ourselves.
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Not always, some tracks I've been too open up the pits to everyone after the race as was the case here.
 
If the race is great tonight... I think they can recover. If it's a typical F1 race or worse, the PR nightmare would be tremendous. I still believe there hasn't been enough negatives to outshine the positives of an amazing race. They really ****ted the bed on treatment of fans and locals. $200 merchandise credit for Thursday's ticketholders.... what low single digit percentage of those fans will ever attend an F1 race ever again?
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
I couldn’t even see or hear the fans last night. Every other F1 race has an electric atmosphere.

NASCAR is a working man’s sport. Hell, look at how people get up in arms over $250 ticket packages. Most of these races are super affordable.

Again, during the boom, I was buying Cup tickets for $90 and Xfinity tickets for $30. The one complaint I have is that, with these limits on practice and stuff, NASCAR races aren’t the same.

Fridays and Saturdays (or Friday, in the case of Richmond) used to build the event up.
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F1 never had a reputation for being fan-friendly. If anyone who bought a grandstand ticket for $1,500 thought they'd get within a mile of any of the drivers before or after the race they don't know anything about the sport.
The only major European-based championship that comes anywhere close to NASCAR's and IndyCar's (minus the Thermal Club) fan-friendliness is WSBK.

Let's not act like there's an "electric atmosphere" at Bahrain, Qatar, etc. though. The reason you can hear the fans over the engines sometimes... are the engines.

I wouldn't say that F1 is doing this for a European audience at all. I will be up at 7 am to watch tomorrow but pretty much no one else will be. This ain't the Schumacher era.
 
donthaveanickname said:
F1 never had a reputation for being fan-friendly. If anyone who bought a grandstand ticket for $1,500 thought they'd get within a mile of any of the drivers before or after the race they don't know anything about the sport.
The only major European-based championship that comes anywhere close to NASCAR's and IndyCar's (minus the Thermal Club) fan-friendliness is WSBK.

Let's not act like there's an "electric atmosphere" at Bahrain, Qatar, etc. though. The reason you can hear the fans over the engines sometimes... are the engines.

I wouldn't say that F1 is doing this for a European audience at all. I will be up at 7 am to watch tomorrow but pretty much no one else will be. This ain't the Schumacher era.
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In fairness, I've been to Abu Dhabi, and that event has a lot of stuff going on around the circuit and feels like a big spectacle. I would go so far as to say it felt like a bigger spectacle to see it than the USGP though I would also say that COTA is better from a guest interaction/hospitality perspective.
 
virtualbalboa said:
F1 and NASCAR (and Indycar, TBF) are both radically different things from what they once were and there's plenty of fans of both whom have found the changes made not to their likings. No one in motorsport provides better access for fans than the NHRA and really IMSA among "big car series" comes closest to NHRA in spite of also being the de facto most "elitist" in North America. Also, nothing is as good as dirt open wheel racing. There, now everyone can be mad.
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Yeah, I would say IMSA and IndyCar have always been most accessible at greater value than any NASCAR race I went to. St. Pete, Sebring, and the Rolex are not small events either. Although my frame of reference there is mostly Daytona as I never really pursued those options at Darlington, Homestead, or Atlanta. And I still assume NASCAR tracks are selling suites and fan pass upgrades for crazy prices themselves (someone tweeted Dover has some Ultimate Fan Pass listed for $500?). Still much more accessible on average than the LVGP, and F1 in general, but I think the whole “working man’s sport” is more symbolic of the Xfinity and Truck series these days. F1 and the Cup Series are probably solidly #1 and (by quite a gap) #2 as far as exclusivity.

I unfortunately never made it to Volusia while I was on the Space Coast but think I’ll try to hit High Limit at East Bay now that I’m back in Tampa, and see what all the hype is about.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Yeah, I would say IMSA and IndyCar have always been most accessible at greater value than any NASCAR race I went to. St. Pete, Sebring, and the Rolex are not small events either. Although my frame of reference there is mostly Daytona as I never really pursued those options at Darlington, Homestead, or Atlanta. And I still assume NASCAR tracks are selling suites and fan pass upgrades for crazy prices themselves (someone tweeted Dover has some Ultimate Fan Pass listed for $500?). Still much more accessible on average than the LVGP, and F1 in general, but I think the whole “working man’s sport” is more symbolic of the Xfinity and Truck series these days. F1 and the Cup Series are probably solidly #1 and (by quite a gap) #2 as far as exclusivity.

I unfortunately never made it to Volusia while I was on the Space Coast but think I’ll try to hit High Limit at East Bay now that I’m back in Tampa, and see what all the hype is about.
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You got one weekend to ever see them at Easy Bay, my guy. Make it count.
 
Speedbowl14 said:
If the race is great tonight... I think they can recover. If it's a typical F1 race or worse, the PR nightmare would be tremendous. I still believe there hasn't been enough negatives to outshine the positives of an amazing race. They really ****ted the bed on treatment of fans and locals. $200 merchandise credit for Thursday's ticketholders.... what low single digit percentage of those fans will ever attend an F1 race ever again?
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I don’t think there’s any silver bullet but at this point I think it’s reasonable to say it would’ve cost them less money and no PR damage to allow Andretti/Cadillac onto the grid and maybe hit up Roger Penske to see if they could return to IMS, rather than this whole stunt.
 
Since Dennis came up….
IMG_4036.jpeg
 
kkfan91 said:
Denny 1 road course win Lewis 0 oval wins
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Road courses/street circuits are more technical and demand more skills and discipline from the driver than simply turning “left.”

I remember when I was an F1 hater and defended NASCAR like my life depended on it. Then I expanded my horizon and started watching F1, IMSA, Supercars, Rally, etc.

Suffice it to say, I was overwhelmed and way more appreciative of what I was witnessing.
 
Reck said:
Road courses/street circuits are more technical and demand more skills and discipline from the driver than simply turning “left.”

I remember when I was an F1 hater and defended NASCAR like my life depended on it. Then I expanded my horizon and started watching F1, IMSA, Supercars, Rally, etc.

Suffice it to say, I was overwhelmed and way more appreciative of what I was witnessing.
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1 I was joking get your panties out of a knot. 2 ovals are just as if not more technical than a road course. Multiple lines, actual traffic, constant g forces. I watch plenty beyond NASCAR I've tried multiple times to like F1 there is nothing entertaining about an engineering competition to me.
 
kkfan91 said:
1 I was joking get your panties out of a knot. 2 ovals are just as if not more technical than a road course. Multiple lines, actual traffic, constant g forces. I watch plenty beyond NASCAR I've tried multiple times to like F1 there is nothing entertaining about an engineering competition to me.
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Ok, just saying. You’ve been crying and **** talking this series all weekend long. Are you trying for the driest, longest non funny joke ever?
 
Weird how people are trying to be competitive about two guys having a conversation (which would seem to suggest they are not themselves competitive).
 
FLRacingFan said:
The stewards stated in their documentation they would’ve allowed Sainz to keep his spot but the regulations don’t allow for force majeure in that situation. They just got put in a bad spot by the venue and promoter.
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There was more discussion of this Saturday morning. The stewards apparently thought the matter was unfair to Ferrari as well. Apparently there was one other way they could have waived the grid penalty and that was if each team signed off on a waiver document. There was one team what was going to object to the waiver and wanted the grid penalty on Sainz to remain in effect however. David Croft refused to name the team but because of that objection, no further action was taken to remove the penalty.

Zak Brown also agreed in an interview that the situation was very unfair to Ferrari and was a time where all of the other F1 teams should have been good sports and waived the penalty. He said he definitely would have voted to waive it. He guessed that the team that objected was one of the teams competing the hardest with Ferrari.

I would love to know which team it was but if I had to guess, I would guess Mercedes.
 
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