Logano's Move

Revman

Revman

Toyota Gazoo Racing North America
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Alright, you have a nice guy driver in William Byron pissed off. You have Hall of Famer, Bill Elliott, in the booth disagreeing with what Joey did. You have Hall of Famer, Jeff Gordon, saying that he would have liked to see Joey try to pass clean first. My questions....1) Yes or No on the dump and run, and 2) Have we entered into an unprecedented era of "Boys Have At It"?
 
BobbyFord said:
Bump and run isn’t unprecedented. It’s been around forever.
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That's great, except it wasn't a "bump and run" IMO.

I wish fans could understand that "rubbin's racin" doesn't apply to every situation. There's a difference between a bump and a dump. There's a difference between being moved and being wrecked. There's a difference between an unintentional racing deal when a guy gets loose off corner and puts the squeeze on the outside car, and intentionally overdriving a corner to smack someone from behind and completely take them out of contention.

False equivalencies everywhere. Like everything in life, context ALWAYS matters. Nobody seems to understand "an eye for an eye" anymore. Some fans let their bias get in the way, some fans don't think things through, some fans just lack the intelligence. But we all see things different ways, and we're all entitled to our opinions, so it's all in good fun.

I'll just say this.....I know Logano was desperate for a win, I know he was pissed at Byron for the way he raced him on the restart. But Logano's lack of foresight will come back to bite him. I think there's a VERY good chance Byron returns the favor, and Logano better hope it isn't at a critical time late in the season.
 
Revman said:
You have Hall of Famer, Jeff Gordon, saying that he would have liked to see Joey try to pass clean first.
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That's the funny thing. Logano could have passed him clean for the win, but he wanted to be an a**hole and punt Byron out of the way, all because of what happened on the restart.

Clearly, Logano isn't smart enough to have learned his lesson from the Matt Kenseth deal.
 
BobbyFord said:
Joey didn’t cause Byron to wreck.
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Of course he did.

A "bump and run" is a faster Gordon tapping a slower Wallace out of the way at old Bristol, which was a one lane high banked short track. Rusty still finished 2nd.

That is not at all comparable to what Logano did today, and anyone who says otherwise is fooling themselves.
 
One more point I would like to make, for all the mouth breathers out there (not on R-F, but all over social media) saying everyone loved Dale Sr. because he raced like this.....

1. Dale Sr. raced hard, he raced rough, he would bump and sometimes he would tap someone just for the hell of it. But how often did you see him "go for broke" and dive into a corner and completely use someone up or take them out?

2. Not everyone loved Dale Sr. and if you don't believe me, go listen to the fans after the '99 Bristol night race. Anyone who wasn't an Earnhardt fan was booing the hell out of him for winning that race the way he did.
 
My picture of bump and run is what Carl did to Kyle in Richmond a few years ago or Harvick moving Hamlin at New Hampshire. I hated both, but those felt fair. In your opinions was Joey's move the same or different from those. It seemed quite different to me as was Briscoe's move in Bristol.
 
2 Sweet said:
That's the funny thing. Logano could have passed him clean for the win, but he wanted to be an a**hole and punt Byron out of the way, all because of what happened on the restart.

Clearly, Logano isn't smart enough to have learned his lesson from the Matt Kenseth deal.
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Yep. He definitely “Kensethed” Byron, and he will be watching his mirror for the rest of the season. Logan is most definitely a moron.


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spindoc said:
Yep. He definitely “Kensethed” Byron, and he will be watching his mirror for the rest of the season. Logan is most definitely a moron.


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Do you really believe that Joey will be watching his mirror for William Byron? I mean, really?
 
2 Sweet said:
Personally, I believe Joey will be watching more of Byron's rear bumper. Look at the win column and look at the laps led. Joey has some catching up to do
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Fair, and honestly I hope William stays true to who he is--I think he will. We can't have the whole field wrecking each other like douchebags. Need a couple of Byrons and MTJs sprinkled in.
 
Revman said:
Do you really believe that Joey will be watching his mirror for William Byron? I mean, really?
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Payback is warranted in this situation. Think about it. Logano is so stupid that he has forgotten the lesson that Kenseth taught him at Martinsville. Now is the time for Byron to start up the retaliation threats to get into Joeys helmet and let him know that he is a marked man. That move was bull chit and you know it.


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spindoc said:
Payback is warranted in this situation. Think about it. Logano is so stupid that he has forgotten the lesson that Kenseth taught him at Martinsville. Now is the time for Byron to start up the retaliation threats to get into Joeys helmet and let him know that he is a marked man. That move was bull chit and you know it.


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Dunno....you think Byron should spend his time running his mouth about this, or stay focused on wins? I don't know what is bull**** anymore....that's why I started the thread.
 
Revman said:
Dunno....you think Byron should spend his time running his mouth about this, or stay focused on wins? I don't know what is bull**** anymore....that's why I started the thread.
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Byron already has 2 wins. He’s locked in to the playoffs. He can definitely afford to help Joey relearn the lesson of respect that Matt Kenseth tried to teach him at Martinsville. Logano has been a punk since he started driving in cup, and he has shown zero respect for the rest of the field.


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Byron is the fool here, he doesn't owe Joey anything. NASCAR media has done a poor job of covering this, probably because villaifying Logano is good tv.

Logano was 100% in the right.



Byron flat have him no room, made contact with Logano out of 2, ran him into the wall. He had it coming. He dished it out, then cried about it like a brat when it came back to bite him.

That's what happened.


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jaqua19 said:
Byron is the fool here, he doesn't owe Joey anything. NASCAR media has done a poor job of covering this, probably because villaifying Logano is good tv.

Logano was 100% in the right.



Byron flat have him no room, made contact with Logano out of 2, ran him into the wall. He had it coming. He dished it out, then cried about it like a brat when it came back to bite him.

That's what happened.


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LOL.

See my post above. You seem to think incidental contact, getting loose on the tightest part of the track, is equivalent to straight up dumping someone and ruining their day.

Laughable. Byron paid a farrrrrr bigger price for a minor mistake. And that racing deal only cost Logano a few car lengths, yet he felt the need to intentionally wreck Byron despite the fact that he could have just passed him clean.

Again, how did this work out for Joey the last time he pulled this same stunt with Kenseth? He must have a short memory, or he's dumber than a box of rocks.
 
spindoc said:
Payback is warranted in this situation. Think about it. Logano is so stupid that he has forgotten the lesson that Kenseth taught him at Martinsville. Now is the time for Byron to start up the retaliation threats to get into Joeys helmet and let him know that he is a marked man. That move was bull chit and you know it.


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Payback is warranted...it happened already.

Watch the roof cam videos. Joey was 100% in the right. Byron forced him into the wall, made contact with him, and then ran Logano into the fence. (broadcast didn't cover it). Logano retaliated, Byron cried about it, and Logano is deserving of the payback?



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2 Sweet said:
LOL.

See my post above. You seem to think incidental contact, getting loose on the tightest part of the track, is equivalent to straight up dumping someone and ruining their day.

Laughable. Byron paid a farrrrrr bigger price for a minor mistake. And that racing deal only cost Logano a few car lengths, yet he felt the need to intentionally wreck Byron despite the fact that he could have just passed him clean.

Again, how did this work out for Joey the last time he pulled this same stunt with Kenseth? He must have a short memory, or he's dumber than a box of rocks.
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Hilarious. Intentional or not, Byron ran Joey into the wall. You can rationalize it all you want, I don't care.

A mistake on a driver's part in a race for a win doesn't excuse them from retaliation just because it was a mistake. That's nonsense.

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jaqua19 said:
Hilarious. Intentional or not, Byron ran Joey into the wall. You can rationalize it all you want, I don't care.

A mistake on a driver's part in a race for a win doesn't excuse them from retaliation just because it was a mistake. That's nonsense.

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What an awful take.

If I accidentally flick you in the nose with my finger, is it fair for you to stab me in the neck with a pocket knife?

"Retaliation" lol get real.
 
Kyle Busch made a mistake at Darlington a couple years ago that cost Chase Elliott a shot at the win.....



How did Chase retaliate? A middle finger. He realized it was a mistake by Busch, a boneheaded mistake a veteran should never make, but a mistake nonetheless. He let it slide.

I guess using @jaqua19 's logic, Chase should have murdered Kyle's whole family in retaliation :rolleyes:
 
2 Sweet said:
What an awful take.

If I accidentally flick you in the nose with my finger, is it fair for you to stab me in the neck with a pocket knife?

"Retaliation" lol get real.
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Cut it out, I'm not the one who wrecked Byron so don't take my comment personal.

To quote you from earlier. "false equivalencies everywhere"...then you present THIS false equivalency, proceed to mock my take and ironically tell ME to get real?

I don't have a horse in this race, you obviously do, but you're all over the place here trying to justify your frustration. Guess what? It's justified. My take remains the same and it's no sweat. Byron will win plenty more races.

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2 Sweet said:
Kyle Busch made a mistake at Darlington a couple years ago that cost Chase Elliott a shot at the win.....



How did Chase retaliate? A middle finger. He realized it was a mistake by Busch, a boneheaded mistake a veteran should never make, but a mistake nonetheless. He let it slide.

I guess using @jaqua19 's logic, Chase should have murdered Kyle's whole family in retaliation :rolleyes:
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You're being overly dramatic. Get a grip man. Seriously.

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jaqua19 said:
You're being overly dramatic. Get a grip man. Seriously.

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Yes, I'm obviously being overly sarcastic lol

You made your point, I made mine. Agree to disagree. It's only one race, which is insignificant in the grand scheme.
 
2 Sweet said:
Yes, I'm obviously being overly sarcastic lol

You made your point, I made mine. Agree to disagree. It's only one race, which is insignificant in the grand scheme.
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Sounds good :)

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Byron’s misfortune was he didn’t get a chance to talk to Joey and claim, truthfully or not, it was a mistake and smooth it over. Getting walled was still in Joey’s mind and he got the chance for payback.
It’s funny watching the Hendrick and anti-Logano crowds vilify Logano.
 
jaqua19 said:
Byron is the fool here, he doesn't owe Joey anything. NASCAR media has done a poor job of covering this, probably because villaifying Logano is good tv.

Logano was 100% in the right.



Byron flat have him no room, made contact with Logano out of 2, ran him into the wall. He had it coming. He dished it out, then cried about it like a brat when it came back to bite him.

That's what happened.


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Liked for the video showing what led to Joey's move. Thanks for posting it. As for the move, I'm just gonna go with what will be my natural default response to anything like this moving forward:

As a great man once said, at the end of the day, each person's gotta look at themselves in the mirror and make the move that they're comfortable with, and if you're okay with it, you're okay with it. Each person's different, so...

Like I've said before, my man Joey is one of those drivers who lives and dies by the sword. Sometimes he's the bat, and sometimes he's the ball. Years of getting pushed around while he was at JGR molded and shaped him into the toothy-grinned battle-hardened warrior that he is today.

Was Joey's move necessary? Probably not. He was so much faster than William Byron at the end of that race that I think he probably would have passed him clean anyway. That being said, is a move like that ever really necessary? That's ultimately for the person sitting behind the wheel to decide. Either way, he's probably got one coming from Byron now, and I'm sure he knows that.
 
2 Sweet said:
That's the funny thing. Logano could have passed him clean for the win, but he wanted to be an a**hole and punt Byron out of the way, all because of what happened on the restart.

Clearly, Logano isn't smart enough to have learned his lesson from the Matt Kenseth deal.
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Or.. he's smart enough to know that NOT changing his style won him a championship?

Sure sometimes it bites him in the ass but it has improved his career in much more ways than it has hindered it.. if it ain't broke don't fix it.

In the end they don't ask how.. they ask HOW MANY

IMO Byron is making a mistake if he wants to go to war with Joey. I'll enjoy watching it though.
 
jaqua19 said:
Byron is the fool here, he doesn't owe Joey anything. NASCAR media has done a poor job of covering this, probably because villaifying Logano is good tv.

Logano was 100% in the right.



Byron flat have him no room, made contact with Logano out of 2, ran him into the wall. He had it coming. He dished it out, then cried about it like a brat when it came back to bite him.

That's what happened.


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This take is completely wrong and here’s why. Yea Byron squeezed Joey coming off that turn, but it looked like his car got tight coming off the turn and the contact was incidental. I don’t think he meant to wall or do harm to Joey’s car, plus it was said during the broadcast Byron’s right rear was going away as the laps wound down so he most likely was losing his handling. What Joey did was pre meditated, and William lost his chance to win because of it. Joey made it a point to try to drive through William to “not get away with it.” William has never raced in away that made you think he was trying to take out Joey when they initially made contact. What number instance is this for Joey, I’ve lost count. Joey has a receipt coming.
 
Mr. Gregory said:
Liked for the video showing what led to Joey's move. Thanks for posting it. As for the move, I'm just gonna go with what will be my natural default response to anything like this moving forward:

As a great man once said, at the end of the day, each person's gotta look at themselves in the mirror and make the move that they're comfortable with, and if you're okay with it, you're okay with it. Each person's different, so...

Like I've said before, my man Joey is one of those drivers who lives and dies by the sword. Sometimes he's the bat, and sometimes he's the ball. Years of getting pushed around while he was at JGR molded and shaped him into the toothy-grinned battle-hardened warrior that he is today.

Was Joey's move necessary? Probably not. He was so much faster than William Byron at the end of that race that I think he probably would have passed him clean anyway. That being said, is a move like that ever really necessary? That's ultimately for the person sitting behind the wheel to decide. Either way, he's probably got one coming from Byron now, and I'm sure he knows that.
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I agree
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
This take is completely wrong and here’s why. Yea Byron squeezed Joey coming off that turn, but it looked like his car got tight coming off the turn and the contact was incidental. I don’t think he meant to wall or do harm to Joey’s car, plus it was said during the broadcast Byron’s right rear was going away as the laps wound down so he most likely was losing his handling. What Joey did was pre meditated, and William lost his chance to win because of it. Joey made it a point to try to drive through William to “not get away with it.” William has never raced in away that made you think he was trying to take out Joey when they initially made contact. What number instance is this for Joey, I’ve lost count. Joey has a receipt coming.
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I believe what you are saying about Byron to be true and Joey probably would have as well after he saw the incident and spoke to Byron….but he didn’t get that opportunity. In his mind, probably no different than most of them if they would have been in that situation, he just got walled possibly ruining HIS race so when it came time to go for the win Byron was going to pay.
And I really don’t thing Joey was looking to hurt Byron’s race as much as he did.
 
jaqua19 said:
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All day drivers were having trouble coming off turn 2. MRN quoted Harvick during the race as saying off turn 2, where the new asphalt transitioned to the old stuff, that the back end would get light there and it was hard to control. Several spins happened in that area; I suspect it's why Brad spun almost immediately after the race started.

Watch the video again. At the 0:16 - 0:17 mark, when Byron comes off the new asphalt, the #24 jumps to the right and bumps Logano. I think Joey got his nose out of joint over something that had been happening all race. If I knew it was a problem in the stands, his team should have known and told him about it.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
All day drivers were having trouble coming off turn 2. MRN quoted Harvick during the race as saying off turn 2, where the new asphalt transitioned to the old stuff, that the back end would get light there and it was hard to control. Several spins happened in that area; I suspect it's why Brad spun almost immediately after the race started.

Watch the video again. At the 0:16 - 0:17 mark, when Byron comes off the new asphalt, the #24 jumps to the right and bumps Logano. I think Joey got his nose out of joint over something that had been happening all race. If I knew it was a problem in the stands, his team should have known and told him about it.
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And again I’ll ask:
Do you really think that would matter to Joey who had a shot at a win but it may have just got ruined if he had a tire possibly go down? Or to ANYONE else for that matter in the same position? And do you think a team would tell their driver that so he wouldn’t got try as hard for the win?
Not being a smartass, actually questions to think about. If there is someone (a winner) that wouldn’t have initiated “payback”, who would they be?
 
2 Sweet said:
Kyle Busch made a mistake at Darlington a couple years ago that cost Chase Elliott a shot at the win.....



How did Chase retaliate? A middle finger. He realized it was a mistake by Busch, a boneheaded mistake a veteran should never make, but a mistake nonetheless. He let it slide.

I guess using @jaqua19 's logic, Chase should have murdered Kyle's whole family in retaliation :rolleyes:
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He had time to see and think about and get an apology afterward. Joey was still in the fray and access to William just a few minutes later.
 
Ford 222 said:
And again I’ll ask:
Do you really think that would matter to Joey who had a shot at a win but it may have just got ruined if he had a tire possibly go down? Or to ANYONE else for that matter in the same position? And do you think a team would tell their driver that so he wouldn’t got try as hard for the win?
Not being a smartass, actually questions to think about. If there is someone (a winner) that wouldn’t have initiated “payback”, who would they be?
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I'm saying it looks to me like Byron didn't bump him intentionally, that there was no cause for 'retaliation'. Obviously it's easier to say that on Monday morning with the ability to replay a video repeatedly, than it is to realize that behind the wheel at 160+ mph and 3+ hours of fun with two laps to go.
 
Revman said:
Alright, you have a nice guy driver in William Byron pissed off. You have Hall of Famer, Bill Elliott, in the booth disagreeing with what Joey did. You have Hall of Famer, Jeff Gordon, saying that he would have liked to see Joey try to pass clean first. My questions....1) Yes or No on the dump and run, and 2) Have we entered into an unprecedented era of "Boys Have At It"?
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1-Yes these days. It’s expected on the last lap if it’s for the win. Accepted if it’s one of the right drivers doing it.
2-I hope so and I think yes.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I'm saying it looks to me like Byron didn't bump him intentionally, that there was no cause for 'retaliation'. Obviously it's easier to say that on Monday morning with the ability to replay a video repeatedly, than it is to realize that behind the wheel at 160+ mph and 3+ hours of fun with two laps to go.
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Exactly. I don’t think it was intentional either but try to convince Joey with 25 laps to go and the shot for his first playoff clinching win.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I'm saying it looks to me like Byron didn't bump him intentionally, that there was no cause for 'retaliation'. Obviously it's easier to say that on Monday morning with the ability to replay a video repeatedly, than it is to realize that behind the wheel at 160+ mph and 3+ hours of fun with two laps to go.
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This. Byron wasn’t trying to wreck or hurt Logano’s car when they initially made contact. William has no prior history in cup of trying to wreck someone. Joey meant to drive through William.
 
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