Matt In Jimmie's Head?

We get to watch this this sport evolve in this age.
Would Dale have gotten as many Championships with today's level of competition? Probably not.
You have to be near perfect to get a Cup with today's talent.
Could today's talent achieve what Dale did with Dale's era cars and technology? Likely not.
Today's drivers are on par with today's technology.
We are fortunate to be today's NASCAR fans :beerbang:
 
FenderBumper said:
He'll get there. I think JJ will end his career with more wins than Jeff.
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That may be a stretch. Time will tell. Jimmie and Chad have not had the usual level of success since NASCAR has been scrutinizing the 48 car. It will be interesting.
Could Jimmie pull off what he has if he were in Jeff's era? I don't think so.
It's all speculation, but I believe Jeff is the better driver, sans Chad.
 
BobbyFord said:
We get to watch this this sport evolve in this age.
Would Dale have gotten as many Championships with today's level of competition? Probably not.
You have to be near perfect to get a Cup with today's talent.
Could today's talent achieve what Dale did with Dale's era cars and technology? Likely not.
Today's drivers are on par with today's technology.
We are fortunate to be today's NASCAR fans :beerbang:
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Most wouldn't even get in the cars. I sure enjoy nascar more without the death and injuries. I've always felt greatness in one era equals greatness in another. In both cases, you have to dominate the best of that era for many years to be considered great.

I get pissed when some people, like DW, try to water down the accomplishments of the early drivers like Petty. Winning so many on dirt, gravel and pavement while racing a bunch of backyard knuckle head racers on their home tracks can't be easier than today. Helping build the car and then towing it a few hundred miles before the race sure isn't easy. Winning so many while averaging 8 DNF's a year due to mechanical failure is something todays drivers don't deal with either.

I have tons of respect for them crazy assed old time racers.
 
I think Jeff and Ray is a more winning combination than Jimmie and Chad. Different era, different level of competi
FenderBumper said:
Most wouldn't even get in the cars. I sure enjoy nascar more without the death and injuries. I've always felt greatness in one era equals greatness in another. In both cases, you have to dominate the best of that era for many years to be considered great.

I get pissed when some people, like DW, try to water down the accomplishments of the early drivers like Petty. Winning so many on dirt, gravel and pavement while racing a bunch of backyard knuckle head racers on their home tracks can't be easier than today. Helping build the car and then towing it a few hundred miles before the race sure isn't easy. Winning so many while averaging 8 DNF's a year due to mechanical failure is something todays drivers don't deal with either.

I have tons of respect for them crazy assed old time racers.
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I think DW talks the crap that the networks like to hear. Same with Larry Mac.
Darrel and Larry were both around when things were tougher. Darrel was a driver back then and Larry was a crew chief. Now they have different roles. Both are now employed to sell a product; NASCAR.
 
BobbyFord said:
That may be a stretch. Time will tell. Jimmie and Chad have not had the usual level of success since NASCAR has been scrutinizing the 48 car. It will be interesting.
Could Jimmie pull off what he has if he were in Jeff's era? I don't think so.
It's all speculation, but I believe Jeff is the better driver, sans Chad.
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Jeff had his wizard on the box, JJ has his. Meanwhile, JJ has 65 wins in 12 years. Jeff has 88 in 21 years. One amazing thing about Jeff is how young he was when he dethroned Earnhardt.
 
BobbyFord said:
I think Jeff and Ray is a more winning combination than Jimmie and Chad. Different era, different level of competi

I think DW talks the crap that the networks like to hear. Same with Larry Mac.
Darrel and Larry were both around when things were tougher. Darrel was a driver back then and Larry was a crew chief. Now they have different roles. Both are now employed to sell a product; NASCAR.
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Nah, it was DW trying to pump himself up during the whole hall of fame whining routine he was doing because he felt he should have come in earlier. Larry Mac never went that route.
 
FenderBumper said:
Jeff had his wizard on the box, JJ has his. Meanwhile, JJ has 65 wins in 12 years. Jeff has 88 in 21 years. One amazing thing about Jeff is how young he was when he dethroned Earnhardt.
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Yup. I think I have more respect for what Jeff accomplished in his era, than what Jimmie has accomplished in his. JMO.
 
BobbyFord said:
Yup. I think I have more respect for what Jeff accomplished in his era, than what Jimmie has accomplished in his. JMO.
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JJ is too controlled for my taste. Jeff had much more of an impact on the sports popularity than JJ has had. I really wish he would get that fire back and start winning more.
 
You adapt & race the competition the way NASCAR has it setup during the time frame. It just so happens that during Jimmie's time, this Chase thing is going on & he's prospered mightily from it. Jimmie Johnson is in the midst of his 12th full season on the Cup Tour, he currently has 5 driving titles & 65 victory's. By comparison by the end of his 12th full season, Jeff Gordon had amassed 4 driving titles & 67 wins, Dale Earnhardt had 4 driving titles & 48 wins, Richard Petty had 3 driving titles & 140 victories. So what do we know by looking at these numbers, well we know that Richard ran the most races per season & Dale Earnhardt ran the least during their respective era's. This is most obvious in the difference in their race wins. Now looking at these numbers again you can see that Jimmie is pretty much right on albeit slightly ahead of what the other 3 drivers had accomplished in the same amount of time. How about lets look at something else, how many times have these guys been runnerup in the first 12 years, Jimmie 2wice, Jeff 1nce, Dale Sr 1nce, & Richard 4 times. Now looking at that, let's imagine those 2nd place runs were title seasons that put's Richard & Jimmie at a tie with 7, Jeff & Dale Sr tied for 2nd with 5 each. Hmm. Now then, I have to respect Jimmie, this is his era & he's flat out been pretty d@mn good during it, just like Jeff did before him when the big money is on the line he doesn't let his fans down. Just like Dale Sr before him, when he has a crappy car, he doesn't whine the whole race, either his team gets it better or Jimmie manhandle's it to a finish that is about 5 spots better than the car should've placed. The man is money & even if he doesn't win this years championship or another one for that matter, his place in the hall is secured & so IMO is his legend status. Who do I personally think is the best ever RIGHT NOW, well you guys know i'm biased towards Dale Sr but for his timeframe, he won his 7 titles faster than Richard won his, only Jimmie can top that & he has this season as well as 3 more season's to do it. Richard, Jeff, & Jimmie all had top notch equipment right from the start, you cannot say Dale had top notch equipment till about 1987 during championship run number 3. Jimmie could retire right now with 5 titles & yes ESPN, he's a legend in the sport but 5 years from now if he has 2, 3 or even 4 more driving titles how many people will consider him the best ever? If 5Time makes it to number 8, then ESPN will have to air a spot like this: WINNING THE 8TH CHAMPIONSHIP HAS SECURED YOUR PLACE AS A LEGEND, BUT DOE'S THAT NOW MAKE YOU THE BEST EVER? Think about it, I place David Pearson at number 2 based on the fact that he never raced a full season & won 105 races & 3 championships. Other players won more titles than Jordan, yet he's considered the best NBA player ever by a majority of fans around the world because of his impact on the floor, he was good even when the Bulls lost, opposing fans showed up wearing his jersey & went home not knowing what their teams players had done to win BUT they knew what Jordan did in the loss then they got up on Saturday & went to the mall & rioted over his shoe's. Before Brett Farve & Peyton came along, Dan Marino held pretty much every NFL passing record & never won a single Superbowl & Maimi fans still consider him a GOD. Nolan Ryan had 7 no hitters & struck out almost 6000 players, 1st ballot HOF & considered by many the best ever DESPITE the fact that he only won 1 World Series & had close to a .500 career record. I guess what i'm trying to say in all of this is greatness is not what the media & sportscasters tell us it is which is whomever has the most titles is the best or whatever, it's defined by what we the fans define it as. In the end, Jimmie's a cool customer under fire & I don't think Matt's in his head, this past Sunday was an uncharacteristically tough race for 5Time & he had to play catchup a lot, that's all...
 
Restrictor Plate King! said:
You adapt & race the competition the way NASCAR has it setup during the time frame. It just so happens that during Jimmie's time, this Chase thing is going on & he's prospered mightily from it. Jimmie Johnson is in the midst of his 12th full season on the Cup Tour, he currently has 5 driving titles & 65 victory's. By comparison by the end of his 12th full season, Jeff Gordon had amassed 4 driving titles & 67 wins, Dale Earnhardt had 4 driving titles & 48 wins, Richard Petty had 3 driving titles & 140 victories. So what do we know by looking at these numbers, well we know that Richard ran the most races per season & Dale Earnhardt ran the least during their respective era's. This is most obvious in the difference in their race wins. Now looking at these numbers again you can see that Jimmie is pretty much right on albeit slightly ahead of what the other 3 drivers had accomplished in the same amount of time. How about lets look at something else, how many times have these guys been runnerup in the first 12 years, Jimmie 2wice, Jeff 1nce, Dale Sr 1nce, & Richard 4 times. Now looking at that, let's imagine those 2nd place runs were title seasons that put's Richard & Jimmie at a tie with 7, Jeff & Dale Sr tied for 2nd with 5 each. Hmm. Now then, I have to respect Jimmie, this is his era & he's flat out been pretty d@mn good during it, just like Jeff did before him when the big money is on the line he doesn't let his fans down. Just like Dale Sr before him, when he has a crappy car, he doesn't whine the whole race, either his team gets it better or Jimmie manhandle's it to a finish that is about 5 spots better than the car should've placed. The man is money & even if he doesn't win this years championship or another one for that matter, his place in the hall is secured & so IMO is his legend status. Who do I personally think is the best ever RIGHT NOW, well you guys know i'm biased towards Dale Sr but for his timeframe, he won his 7 titles faster than Richard won his, only Jimmie can top that & he has this season as well as 3 more season's to do it. Richard, Jeff, & Jimmie all had top notch equipment right from the start, you cannot say Dale had top notch equipment till about 1987 during championship run number 3. Jimmie could retire right now with 5 titles & yes ESPN, he's a legend in the sport but 5 years from now if he has 2, 3 or even 4 more driving titles how many people will consider him the best ever? If 5Time makes it to number 8, then ESPN will have to air a spot like this: WINNING THE 8TH CHAMPIONSHIP HAS SECURED YOUR PLACE AS A LEGEND, BUT DOE'S THAT NOW MAKE YOU THE BEST EVER? Think about it, I place David Pearson at number 2 based on the fact that he never raced a full season & won 105 races & 3 championships. Other players won more titles than Jordan, yet he's considered the best NBA player ever by a majority of fans around the world because of his impact on the floor, he was good even when the Bulls lost, opposing fans showed up wearing his jersey & went home not knowing what their teams players had done to win BUT they knew what Jordan did in the loss then they got up on Saturday & went to the mall & rioted over his shoe's. Before Brett Farve & Peyton came along, Dan Marino held pretty much every NFL passing record & never won a single Superbowl & Maimi fans still consider him a GOD. Nolan Ryan had 7 no hitters & struck out almost 6000 players, 1st ballot HOF & considered by many the best ever DESPITE the fact that he only won 1 World Series & had close to a .500 career record. I guess what i'm trying to say in all of this is greatness is not what the media & sportscasters tell us it is which is whomever has the most titles is the best or whatever, it's defined by what we the fans define it as. In the end, Jimmie's a cool customer under fire & I don't think Matt's in his head, this past Sunday was an uncharacteristically tough race for 5Time & he had to play catchup a lot, that's all...
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Great post RPK. Great, great read and true to the point.
 
Restrictor Plate King! said:
You adapt & race the competition the way NASCAR has it setup during the time frame. It just so happens that during Jimmie's time, this Chase thing is going on & he's prospered mightily from it. Jimmie Johnson is in the midst of his 12th full season on the Cup Tour, he currently has 5 driving titles & 65 victory's. By comparison by the end of his 12th full season, Jeff Gordon had amassed 4 driving titles & 67 wins, Dale Earnhardt had 4 driving titles & 48 wins, Richard Petty had 3 driving titles & 140 victories. So what do we know by looking at these numbers, well we know that Richard ran the most races per season & Dale Earnhardt ran the least during their respective era's. This is most obvious in the difference in their race wins. Now looking at these numbers again you can see that Jimmie is pretty much right on albeit slightly ahead of what the other 3 drivers had accomplished in the same amount of time. How about lets look at something else, how many times have these guys been runnerup in the first 12 years, Jimmie 2wice, Jeff 1nce, Dale Sr 1nce, & Richard 4 times. Now looking at that, let's imagine those 2nd place runs were title seasons that put's Richard & Jimmie at a tie with 7, Jeff & Dale Sr tied for 2nd with 5 each. Hmm. Now then, I have to respect Jimmie, this is his era & he's flat out been pretty d@mn good during it, just like Jeff did before him when the big money is on the line he doesn't let his fans down. Just like Dale Sr before him, when he has a crappy car, he doesn't whine the whole race, either his team gets it better or Jimmie manhandle's it to a finish that is about 5 spots better than the car should've placed. The man is money & even if he doesn't win this years championship or another one for that matter, his place in the hall is secured & so IMO is his legend status. Who do I personally think is the best ever RIGHT NOW, well you guys know i'm biased towards Dale Sr but for his timeframe, he won his 7 titles faster than Richard won his, only Jimmie can top that & he has this season as well as 3 more season's to do it. Richard, Jeff, & Jimmie all had top notch equipment right from the start, you cannot say Dale had top notch equipment till about 1987 during championship run number 3. Jimmie could retire right now with 5 titles & yes ESPN, he's a legend in the sport but 5 years from now if he has 2, 3 or even 4 more driving titles how many people will consider him the best ever? If 5Time makes it to number 8, then ESPN will have to air a spot like this: WINNING THE 8TH CHAMPIONSHIP HAS SECURED YOUR PLACE AS A LEGEND, BUT DOE'S THAT NOW MAKE YOU THE BEST EVER? Think about it, I place David Pearson at number 2 based on the fact that he never raced a full season & won 105 races & 3 championships. Other players won more titles than Jordan, yet he's considered the best NBA player ever by a majority of fans around the world because of his impact on the floor, he was good even when the Bulls lost, opposing fans showed up wearing his jersey & went home not knowing what their teams players had done to win BUT they knew what Jordan did in the loss then they got up on Saturday & went to the mall & rioted over his shoe's. Before Brett Farve & Peyton came along, Dan Marino held pretty much every NFL passing record & never won a single Superbowl & Maimi fans still consider him a GOD. Nolan Ryan had 7 no hitters & struck out almost 6000 players, 1st ballot HOF & considered by many the best ever DESPITE the fact that he only won 1 World Series & had close to a .500 career record. I guess what i'm trying to say in all of this is greatness is not what the media & sportscasters tell us it is which is whomever has the most titles is the best or whatever, it's defined by what we the fans define it as. In the end, Jimmie's a cool customer under fire & I don't think Matt's in his head, this past Sunday was an uncharacteristically tough race for 5Time & he had to play catchup a lot, that's all...
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I second this. I find it frivolous to attempt to compare one era to another; I simply try to appreciate the greatness of all of the drivers of different eras. We don't know how Jimmie would have done back in the day, or how Dale Sr. would do today, so it's pointless to even speculate. All we know is that each era has its one or two "elite" drivers that stand above the rest of the competition, and Jimmie is this era's great, and will remain so until another can step up and dethrone him.
 
It was Martinsville. Agressive is the way to driver that track if you want to get to the front. Especially when they weren't able to get that second groove worked in. Jimmie and the rest of the gang were driving that place like it had to be run on Sunday.
 
BobbyFord said:
That may be a stretch. Time will tell. Jimmie and Chad have not had the usual level of success since NASCAR has been scrutinizing the 48 car. It will be interesting.
Could Jimmie pull off what he has if he were in Jeff's era? I don't think so.
It's all speculation, but I believe Jeff is the better driver, sans Chad.
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Quite a testament to the 48 team when 5 wins and a tie for the points lead is considered "not the usual level of success" ;)
 
Restrictor Plate King! said:
You adapt & race the competition the way NASCAR has it setup during the time frame. It just so happens that during Jimmie's time, this Chase thing is going on & he's prospered mightily from it. Jimmie Johnson is in the midst of his 12th full season on the Cup Tour, he currently has 5 driving titles & 65 victory's. By comparison by the end of his 12th full season, Jeff Gordon had amassed 4 driving titles & 67 wins, Dale Earnhardt had 4 driving titles & 48 wins, Richard Petty had 3 driving titles & 140 victories. So what do we know by looking at these numbers, well we know that Richard ran the most races per season & Dale Earnhardt ran the least during their respective era's. This is most obvious in the difference in their race wins. Now looking at these numbers again you can see that Jimmie is pretty much right on albeit slightly ahead of what the other 3 drivers had accomplished in the same amount of time. How about lets look at something else, how many times have these guys been runnerup in the first 12 years, Jimmie 2wice, Jeff 1nce, Dale Sr 1nce, & Richard 4 times. Now looking at that, let's imagine those 2nd place runs were title seasons that put's Richard & Jimmie at a tie with 7, Jeff & Dale Sr tied for 2nd with 5 each. Hmm. Now then, I have to respect Jimmie, this is his era & he's flat out been pretty d@mn good during it, just like Jeff did before him when the big money is on the line he doesn't let his fans down. Just like Dale Sr before him, when he has a crappy car, he doesn't whine the whole race, either his team gets it better or Jimmie manhandle's it to a finish that is about 5 spots better than the car should've placed. The man is money & even if he doesn't win this years championship or another one for that matter, his place in the hall is secured & so IMO is his legend status. Who do I personally think is the best ever RIGHT NOW, well you guys know i'm biased towards Dale Sr but for his timeframe, he won his 7 titles faster than Richard won his, only Jimmie can top that & he has this season as well as 3 more season's to do it. Richard, Jeff, & Jimmie all had top notch equipment right from the start, you cannot say Dale had top notch equipment till about 1987 during championship run number 3. Jimmie could retire right now with 5 titles & yes ESPN, he's a legend in the sport but 5 years from now if he has 2, 3 or even 4 more driving titles how many people will consider him the best ever? If 5Time makes it to number 8, then ESPN will have to air a spot like this: WINNING THE 8TH CHAMPIONSHIP HAS SECURED YOUR PLACE AS A LEGEND, BUT DOE'S THAT NOW MAKE YOU THE BEST EVER? Think about it, I place David Pearson at number 2 based on the fact that he never raced a full season & won 105 races & 3 championships. Other players won more titles than Jordan, yet he's considered the best NBA player ever by a majority of fans around the world because of his impact on the floor, he was good even when the Bulls lost, opposing fans showed up wearing his jersey & went home not knowing what their teams players had done to win BUT they knew what Jordan did in the loss then they got up on Saturday & went to the mall & rioted over his shoe's. Before Brett Farve & Peyton came along, Dan Marino held pretty much every NFL passing record & never won a single Superbowl & Maimi fans still consider him a GOD. Nolan Ryan had 7 no hitters & struck out almost 6000 players, 1st ballot HOF & considered by many the best ever DESPITE the fact that he only won 1 World Series & had close to a .500 career record. I guess what i'm trying to say in all of this is greatness is not what the media & sportscasters tell us it is which is whomever has the most titles is the best or whatever, it's defined by what we the fans define it as. In the end, Jimmie's a cool customer under fire & I don't think Matt's in his head, this past Sunday was an uncharacteristically tough race for 5Time & he had to play catchup a lot, that's all...
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Very well said RPK!
 
While the 20 and 48 play mind games my hope is that Rogers puts a good car under Kyle for the next 3. Kyle is the best wheelman out there and he CAN do this with the right equipment. JGR dont need Kenseth to win the cup, he has 2 other guys that are capable IMO
 
Kyle18fan said:
While the 20 and 48 play mind games my hope is that Rogers puts a good car under Kyle for the next 3. Kyle is the best wheelman out there and he CAN do this with the right equipment. JGR dont need Kenseth to win the cup, he has 2 other guys that are capable IMO
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Then they need to step up and win it instead of crumbling in the chase.
 
Kyle18fan said:
While the 20 and 48 play mind games my hope is that Rogers puts a good car under Kyle for the next 3. Kyle is the best wheelman out there and he CAN do this with the right equipment. JGR dont need Kenseth to win the cup, he has 2 other guys that are capable IMO
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LOL Denny and Kyle have shown they're not capable of winning under pressure.

Kyle is too emotional. He gives up at the very second of a bad race.

And Denny just completely lost his head in 2010 after phoenix.
 
reck said:
LOL Denny and Kyle have shown they're not capable of winning under pressure.

Kyle is too emotional. He gives up at the very second of a bad race.

And Denny just completely lost his head in 2010 after phoenix.
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Yes but Kyle is still a youngster and has a lot of good years left to be a champion, besides these guys that end up winning the cup bore the hell out of me. In all honesty Im happy with mr Busch just as he is. Still ******** me off that he goes to JGR and gets treated like a god or something. OK enough of my whining :)
 
Kyle18fan said:
Yes but Kyle is still a youngster and has a lot of good years left to be a champion, besides these guys that end up winning the cup bore the hell out of me. In all honesty Im happy with mr Busch just as he is. Still ******** me off that he goes to JGR and gets treated like a god or something. OK enough of my whining :)
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I just think the 20 car has always been the best out of the 3 fielded cars.

Joey just couldn't handle it for one reason or another.

I guess talent does play a part eh Joey? lol
 
reck said:
I just think the 20 car has always been the best out of the 3 fielded cars.

Joey just couldn't handle it for one reason or another.

I guess talent does play a part eh Joey? lol
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Not sure how good the 20 was when Joey drove it but it sure seems to be consistently good this year. The 18 doesnt appear like its ever been really good this year, even at Bristol Kyle struggled with the handling.................... car practiced great and was undriveable in qualifying. I call it Rogeritis I dont know what else to think :angry:
 
Kyle18fan said:
Not sure how good the 20 was when Joey drove it but it sure seems to be consistently good this year. The 18 doesnt appear like its ever been really good this year, even at Bristol Kyle struggled with the handling.................... car practiced great and was undriveable in qualifying. I call it Rogeritis I dont know what else to think :angry:
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Can you just be happy with 5 wins? I would. :)
 
Kyle18fan said:
While the 20 and 48 play mind games my hope is that Rogers puts a good car under Kyle for the next 3. Kyle is the best wheelman out there and he CAN do this with the right equipment. JGR dont need Kenseth to win the cup, he has 2 other guys that are capable IMO
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Two OTHER guys? LOLOL You mean 2 guys right? Or are you (lmfao) trying to say Denny can win one?
 
I
Kyle18fan said:
Not sure how good the 20 was when Joey drove it but it sure seems to be consistently good this year. The 18 doesnt appear like its ever been really good this year, even at Bristol Kyle struggled with the handling.................... car practiced great and was undriveable in qualifying. I call it Rogeritis I dont know what else to think :angry:
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Pretty sure its just how rookie Joey was... not doing well brought his confidence waaaay down. I think you just need the right personalities that fit together. Both Matt and Joey are having career seasons. Clearly matt's is better but he's a veteran and past champ. Joey might as well not even have been in the car for the first 3 years of his career lol... but its clear he's in a better spot now too.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
I

Pretty sure its just how rookie Joey was... not doing well brought his confidence waaaay down. I think you just need the right personalities that fit together. Both Matt and Joey are having career seasons. Clearly matt's is better but he's a veteran and past champ. Joey might as well not even have been in the car for the first 3 years of his career lol... but its clear he's in a better spot now too.
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It had to be rough on the kid being thrown in there with Kyle and Denny. I can agree that could slow a guys progress down a lot. I always thought that another year in Nationwide would have been a better deal for Joey. One thing thats been obvious this year is that Joey aint gonna take any crap from anybody. He has gained a lot of respect from the other drivers
 
SlicedBread22 said:
He might, but I doubt it. He's got some issues. Kyle, I have no doubt he'll win multiple times, but I don't think it will be for a few more years.
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You may be right about that. Kyle has the ability he may need to learn how to put it to better use.
 
Kyle18fan said:
It had to be rough on the kid being thrown in there with Kyle and Denny. I can agree that could slow a guys progress down a lot. I always thought that another year in Nationwide would have been a better deal for Joey. One thing thats been obvious this year is that Joey aint gonna take any crap from anybody. He has gained a lot of respect from the other drivers
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Yeah even another 2 years wouldn't have hurt, but looking back I think its better that he had those years in a cup car. He's coming around and he'll be here for a while. He's doing way better than ever before.. I wont go into a whole thing about it because then we'll have fish jumping in the boat but I expect him to challenge for a championship within the next few years. If not sooner. There's really no doubt in my mind he'll get one eventually.
 
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