Matt In Jimmie's Head?

I had to come back for a peek lol. I just don't want to have the same argument I've had all year, it's pointless to drag it out. I'm up for arguing just not about the same thing. Although I don't plan on never talking about Joey positively.. obviously. I did get the fishing thing from Johali.. so what? I use it.. and today I wasn't trying to .. like I said.. I was going for a ride and the fish just jumped in the boat. There have most definitely been plenty of times I've started talking about Joey just to start, then I get pissed off lol... I'm trying to avoid all that so I just laugh. And yes it is all in good fun.
Kyle18fan said:
Not me !!! I didnt start the Joey bash either. I dont mind getting in to a good Kenseth or Harvick bash though :D
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I think that counts as wrecking someone under caution.. :D
 
SlicedBread22 said:
I said some lol... I know he's good .. maybe should have just said luck.
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Wasnt it Mark Martin that said "anybody can win if they have the best car" ??? Matt ALWAYS does except for the occasional blown engine :biggrin:

A monkey could win in that 20 car ......... Its just that good. If Matts so great why cant he regularly beat mr Busch in the B-mains :waver:

Please respond --------------- my wife is gone for a couple of hours................ I got nobody to argue with
 
SlicedBread22 said:
I had to come back for a peek lol. I just don't want to have the same argument I've had all year, it's pointless to drag it out. I'm up for arguing just not about the same thing. Although I don't plan on never talking about Joey positively.. obviously. I did get the fishing thing from Johali.. so what? I use it.. and today I wasn't trying to .. like I said.. I was going for a ride and the fish just jumped in the boat. There have most definitely been plenty of times I've started talking about Joey just to start, then I get pissed off lol... I'm trying to avoid all that so I just laugh. And yes it is all in good fun.

I think that counts as wrecking someone under caution.. :D
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Hey if its good enough for Kyle Why not:cool:
 
Kyle18fan said:
We already came to the conclusion that its not the same 20 now. Joey could have won the cup with the 2013 model :rolleyes:
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I'm confused.

What has changed from a year ago? Tell you what. Talent.

This isnt't even a knock on Joey, its just the way it is. Matt Kenseth is light years better than Joey.

At least up until this point in their respectice careers.
 
reck said:
I'm confused.

What has changed from a year ago? Tell you what. Talent.

This isnt't even a knock on Joey, its just the way it is. Matt Kenseth is light years better than Joey.

At least up until this point in their respectice careers.
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See what Slicedbread22 did to me ??? Almost had me singing praise for Joey:D
Please disregard post #167 its nonsense or close to it anyway
 
BobbyFord said:
Yup. I think I have more respect for what Jeff accomplished in his era, than what Jimmie has accomplished in his. JMO.
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"Dethroned" when he was past his 40th birthday, Jeffs decline occurred at around 35. Dale wasnt as needy of a special crew chief, Richert, Shelmerdine, or Petree it didnt matter.

Listening to the scanners it was always evident Dale was running the race, he gave the orders. I doubt that Jimmie, or Gordon could ever carry the same weight or same influence for their teams.
 
Greg said:
"Dethroned" when he was past his 40th birthday, Jeffs decline occurred at around 35. Dale wasnt as needy of a special crew chief, Richert, Shelmerdine, or Petree it didnt matter.

Listening to the scanners it was always evident Dale was running the race, he gave the orders. I doubt that Jimmie, or Gordon could ever carry the same weight or same influence for their teams.
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Well Big E went unchallenged from like the mid 80s till Gordon came in so I dont think you can use the crew chief card here.

Gordon's reign was shorter because someone just as good came into the sport sooner than anyone would have imagine. Even Gordon himself I'm sure.

To be honest, Gordon was responsible for his own dethroning by bringing in Jimmie.
 
Kyle18fan said:
We already came to the conclusion that its not the same 20 now. Joey could have won the cup with the 2013 model :rolleyes:
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Yeah, they must have changed something in the car setup.... what was it?

Oh, like Bobby said. It was the very important thing that fits between the driver's seat and the steering wheel.
 
FenderBumper said:
I thought the same until I heard Jeff talk about how much harder it is to win in the chase format. He said he really wants a chase championship for that reason.
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No doubt that he wants to win that next Championship but whether or not it's harder is certainly debatable.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
No doubt that he wants to win that next Championship but whether or not it's harder is certainly debatable.
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There's a dozen different ways of looking at it. Jeff seemed to be most concerned with having just 9 races to recover from a bad run. I always looked at it as conquering 10 tracks rather than 22 or so.

But we don't get in the cars, so I have to go with Jeff on this.
 
Perhaps it's only more difficult for him. Either a team has the performance to contend or they don't - no matter the format.
 
FenderBumper said:
There's a dozen different ways of looking at it. Jeff seemed to be most concerned with having just 9 races to recover from a bad run. I always looked at it as conquering 10 tracks rather than 22 or so.

But we don't get in the cars, so I have to go with Jeff on this.
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Sure, there are many ways of looking at this and we are all entitled to our opinion, behind the wheel or not. When I see drivers placed on virtually equal footing for the final 10 races I look at that as being an easier road to the ultimate goal. On the other hand if I were the driver that was at the top of the heap after Richmond then sure I'd look at it being more on the tougher side.
 
FenderBumper said:
I thought the same until I heard Jeff talk about how much harder it is to win in the chase format. He said he really wants a chase championship for that reason.
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I'm sure he does too being we are in the 9th year of the chase and when he looks in his trophy room all he has is Winston Cups. Being that his closest teammate & his apprentice has won 5 I bet he does want atleast one before he retires.
 
JJ has taken the safe and steady approach and won, he's won a couple by other drivers making the mistake, but he also won a championship at Jeffs expense by going all out for wins.

I would still prefer a full season championship with some big dollars for wins after it's been locked up. That would create some go for it excitement after the champion has been decided.
 
FenderBumper said:
JJ has taken the safe and steady approach and won, he's won a couple by other drivers making the mistake, but he also won a championship at Jeffs expense by going all out for wins.

I would still prefer a full season championship with some big dollars for wins after it's been locked up. That would create some go for it excitement after the champion has been decided.
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If we had the old point system back but kept the current method of awarding points we'd see a close battle to the end with probably the top 20 teams instead of the top 12. If everyone knows they are in contention they will mix things up a lot more. It's gotta kill a driver to be performing strong at the end if the year but has no chance because he's outside of the chase, a la Brad Kes
 
ChexOrWrex said:
I'm sure he does too being we are in the 9th year of the chase and when he looks in his trophy room all he has is Winston Cups. Being that his closest teammate & his apprentice has won 5 I bet he does want atleast one before he retires.
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He says 2007 really put a dent in his confidence. He was in control until JJ rattled off 4 wins in a row and over came 2 semi-bad finishes to win it.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
If we had the old point system back but kept the current method of awarding points we'd see a close battle to the end with probably the top 20 teams instead of the top 12. If everyone knows they are in contention they will mix things up a lot more. It's gotta kill a driver to be performing strong at the end if the year but has no chance because he's outside of the chase, a la Brad Kes
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I agree. The chase also creates excitement for the last 12 races at the expense of the first 24. There are better ways of doing a chase and keeping the regular season more relevant.
 
Having been a fan and follower of the sport for far longer than the existence of the Chase the Chase is a hard thing to accept. It was such a huge change and basically turned the sport to such a polar opposite of what it once was. The idea behind it is not lost on me. Game 7 moments is what Brian has strived for. I guess he's getting what he wants.
 
I duno.. all this about only having to be good for 10 races. I disagree. You have to make the chase first. Now we get 2 points of excitement in the season. The chase cut off, and the championship finish. Im biased because I only know the chase, but it definitely not all about those 10 races. The competition is stiff just to get into the chase. There was a gap of over a race from 1st to 2nd at one point while at the same time the gap from 8th to 18th was about the same. The excitement of who's going to make the chase is fun, and then the intensity of the chase races and the lack of room for error makes it even more exciting. Although I do think it'd be cool to see someone come from the mid teens in points to win the championship in the last 15 or so races... but did anything like that ever really happen? That's a serious question.. has anyone ever come from more than 12 positions back in points to win the championship with less than 10 or 15 races to go? If not then I really don't see what the big deal is with the chase to all you long time fans.
 
Greg said:
"Dethroned" when he was past his 40th birthday, Jeffs decline occurred at around 35. Dale wasnt as needy of a special crew chief, Richert, Shelmerdine, or Petree it didnt matter.

Listening to the scanners it was always evident Dale was running the race, he gave the orders. I doubt that Jimmie, or Gordon could ever carry the same weight or same influence for their teams.
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No doubt Dale was calling the shots on the 3 team during the race. But I don't agree that Dale didn't think he was in need of someone special to fill the crew chief spot.

David Smith wasn't getting it done as crew chief on the 3 team and only lasted one year before he was replaced by Larry McReynolds. It was very big news that Earnhardt got McReynolds away from RYR. He was considered one of the very best crew chiefs in Cup at the time.

Later that year it was reported that Earnhardt tried to get Evernham away from HMS to replace Smith before they got McReynolds, but Evernham declined the offer.

So it seem like they actually were looking for something special to fill the crew chief spot on the 3 team.

One thing that Earnhardt and Gordon have both done that JJ has never had to do, is win a championship with a different crew chief. I would be very interested to see how that would play out with the 48 team.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
I duno.. all this about only having to be good for 10 races. I disagree. You have to make the chase first. Now we get 2 points of excitement in the season. The chase cut off, and the championship finish. Im biased because I only know the chase, but it definitely not all about those 10 races. The competition is stiff just to get into the chase. There was a gap of over a race from 1st to 2nd at one point while at the same time the gap from 8th to 18th was about the same. The excitement of who's going to make the chase is fun, and then the intensity of the chase races and the lack of room for error makes it even more exciting. Although I do think it'd be cool to see someone come from the mid teens in points to win the championship in the last 15 or so races... but did anything like that ever really happen? That's a serious question.. has anyone ever come from more than 12 positions back in points to win the championship with less than 10 or 15 races to go? If not then I really don't see what the big deal is with the chase to all you long time fans.
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Nope, nobody's ever come back from that far back. For me, that's one of the reasons that I don't like the Chase. It is rewarding teams that aren't as consistant. It gets them into the fabricated playoff system basically putting them on an even level and then allows them to capitalize on it. Certainly fine for stick and ball sports but not what this sport was ever about. If this current system were the only thing that I ever had know it to be I probably wouldn't have any issues with it whatsoever. Knowing what it was and having been a fan of the sport for far longer without it I'll always have a hard time accepting but that's my problem.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
Im biased because I only know the chase, but it definitely not all about those 10 races.The competition is stiff just to get into the chase. There was a gap of over a race from 1st to 2nd at one point while at the same time the gap from 8th to 18th was about the same. The excitement of who's going to make the chase is fun, and then the intensity of the chase races and the lack of room for error makes it even more exciting. Although I do think it'd be cool to see someone come from the mid teens in points to win the championship in the last 15 or so races... but did anything like that ever really happen? That's a serious question.. has anyone ever come from more than 12 positions back in points to win the championship with less than 10 or 15 races to go? If not then I really don't see what the big deal is with the chase to all you long time fans.
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It really is about those last 10. Ask Tony or Brad or 3/5 JJ championships. A good enough season for the chase and just dominated the final 10. The only reason nobody ever came back from the mid teens before the chase was because the points system was so broad. Drivers had thousands of points rather than just hundreds by the time the year was over. With this current system of earning points and keeping a 36 race battle, its not impossible to come back, especially if a team knew a shot at the title was still open. The chase just eliminated any hope of motivation. Any team now in the mid teens is focused on testing for next year and is that really giving 100%?
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Nope, nobody's ever come back from that far back. For me, that's one of the reasons that I don't like the Chase. It is rewarding teams that aren't as consistant. It gets them into the fabricated playoff system basically putting them on an even level and then allows them to capitalize on it. Certainly fine for stick and ball sports but not what this sport was ever about. If this current system were the only thing that I ever had know it to be I probably wouldn't have any issues with it whatsoever. Knowing what it was and having been a fan of the sport for far longer without it I'll always have a hard time accepting but that's my problem.
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That's what I mean though. If no one ever came from that far back.. then whats the big deal? Is it because it gives the guys from 5th to 10th a better shot? Do you know what the furthest back chaser to win the cup was? I really am just trying to figure this out. Like I said Ive only known the chase.. what was so much better before? To me it would seem that a couple guys pull away for the most part. Maybe that's it.. I like the close quarters points racing. Less room for error.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
That's what I mean though. If no one ever came from that far back.. then whats the big deal? Is it because it gives the guys from 5th to 10th a better shot? Do you know what the furthest back chaser to win the cup was? I really am just trying to figure this out. Like I said Ive only known the chase.. what was so much better before? To me it would seem that a couple guys pull away for the most part. Maybe that's it.. I like the close quarters points racing. Less room for error.
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I'm not sure how far back a driver has come back from in the final 10.

I don't think that I can explain it any better than I did. I'll simply agree to disagree rather than post the same thing again.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
It really is about those last 10. Ask Tony or Brad or 3/5 JJ championships. A good enough season for the chase and just dominated the final 10. The only reason nobody ever came back from the mid teens before the chase was because the points system was so broad. Drivers had thousands of points rather than just hundreds by the time the year was over. With this current system of earning points and keeping a 36 race battle, its not impossible to come back, especially if a team knew a shot at the title was still open. The chase just eliminated any hope of motivation. Any team now in the mid teens is focused on testing for next year and is that really giving 100%?
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Still.. you need to beat 33 guys for the first 26. That's not as easy as it would seem, I suppose JJ has made it seem easy to make the chase? I remember Brad still would have won the cup last year chase or not. And Tony.. well hes just a freak of nature lol. I guess it does suck that someone could make more points than anyone in the last 10 but not win it because of the previous 26 and would have otherwise... but that's his problem lol.. I know all about that situation.. in 2010 Joey made more points in the chase than anyone other than the 3 still eligible to win it at Homestead... but wasn't even in the chase. Or Kyle last year Im pretty sure he made more points than anyone and would have won it had he finished 1 bit better at Richmond. I just like the intensity of chase time.. maybe its because Im a life long hockey fan lol so the playoffs have always been huge.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I'm not sure how far back a driver has come back from in the final 10.

I don't think that I can explain it any better than I did. I'll simply agree to disagree rather than post the same thing again.
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Like you said if it was all you ever knew you'de probably like it. It's all Ive ever known... and I like it lol.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
That's what I mean though. If no one ever came from that far back.. then whats the big deal? Is it because it gives the guys from 5th to 10th a better shot? Do you know what the furthest back chaser to win the cup was? I really am just trying to figure this out. Like I said Ive only known the chase.. what was so much better before? To me it would seem that a couple guys pull away for the most part. Maybe that's it.. I like the close quarters points racing. Less room for error.
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The chase is like resetting the score of a football game in the 4th quarter to make things more interesting.

Some people find it easy to pretend the chase points are legitimate. Some people can't get past the fact that the points are made up.
 
KevinWI said:
Yeah, they must have changed something in the car setup.... what was it?

Oh, like Bobby said. It was the very important thing that fits between the driver's seat and the steering wheel.
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All that improvement from changing the seat cushion :rolleyes:
 
The championship battles in truck and Nationwide are great this year. I see no reason that the Cup battle wouldnt be as exciting with no chase. My favorite didnt make the chase last year and I went to Phoenix knowing he was out of the battle, thats not much fun
 
gordonite said:
The chase is like resetting the score of a football game in the 4th quarter to make things more interesting.

Some people find it easy to pretend the chase points are legitimate. Some people can't get past the fact that the points are made up.
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LOL You're using a sport that has playoffs to argue that a sport doesn't need playoffs?... its absolutely nothing like that. That would be like resetting the field 3/4 through a race.. its more like resetting the league 3/4 through a season.. oh wait.. that IS what they do
 
Kyle18fan said:
All that improvement from changing the seat cushion :rolleyes:
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Is it just a coincidence that you and Bread are the most vocal about thinking Kenseth is a not great driver ?
Or is it because Kenseth is making both your favorite drivers look bad?

Logano had years in the 20 car and didn't do squat. Suddenly Kenseth is tearing up the series in that car.

Kyle has been trying to win a championship for years at JGR, but as never even come close. Now Kenseth in just his first year there may be on the verge of doing what Kyle has never been able to do.

Face it, 18fan. Kyle is living in Kenseth's shadow these days. ;)
 
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