NASCAR Considering Removal of Jackmen?

AdoubleU24

AdoubleU24

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Heard some crapola on Sirius XM on my drive home from work today that they're floating the idea of installing an air jack system on the cars and eliminating the jackmen from pit stops entirely. You know, that whole cost cutting/safety thing we can't stop hearing about.

:rolleyes::confused:o_O

... 1 2 3 go!
 
Bob Pockrass: "NASCAR is exploring whether to eliminate jackmen from pit stops by equipping the cars with air-jack systems. The sanctioning body, which often considers a variety of changes at this time of year but doesn't necessarily implement all of them, won't confirm how far along it is in the process nor any timetable for a decision. The change, which would reduce the number of crewmen on pit road during pit stops, could potentially save teams money, depending on how much the system costs as well as any development on how it changes the handling of the car."

I'm opposed. Nascar pit stops are perfect, and constitute an important part of the competition and the show. No other racing series has the situation where pit road performance by the crew is important in the race. I like it being important. Also, I'm concerned about air jacks on damaged cars and other unintended consequences. Just my $0.02.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Bob Pockrass: "NASCAR is exploring whether to eliminate jackmen from pit stops by equipping the cars with air-jack systems. The sanctioning body, which often considers a variety of changes at this time of year but doesn't necessarily implement all of them, won't confirm how far along it is in the process nor any timetable for a decision. The change, which would reduce the number of crewmen on pit road during pit stops, could potentially save teams money, depending on how much the system costs as well as any development on how it changes the handling of the car."

I'm opposed. Nascar pit stops are perfect, and constitute an important part of the competition and the show. No other racing series has the situation where pit road performance by the crew is important in the race. I like it being important. Also, I'm concerned about air jacks on damaged cars and other unintended consequences. Just my $0.02.
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Can you imagine a driver deploring the air jack while 2 pits away? :D
 
Just sounds like it is a time to tighten the belt and cut cost. Seems like the jackguys days are numbered. If I was a jackguy I'd start looking at being cross trained in some other job on the team.
 
They use air jacks in IMSA, F-1 and probably more than that. A guy has to fasten an air hose to a fitting on the car. I guess an airman works cheaper than a jackman. I know they do malfunction also at times.
 
One of the few things left that's still relate-able to the average joe is tire changes. A jack and five lugs, just like the car you and I drive. And they want to take that away. I certainly hope it's just some brainstorming session where a whacky idea got thrown up on the board and isn't something under serious consideration.
 
The systems are expensive multiplied by the number of cars in the fleet and add weight. Still have to have someone plug in / remove the air supply hose.
 
If they would go with only green flag pit stops they would save a lot more and the stops would be a lot safer.
 
Feel like it creates a lot of room for failures, if your air jack fails are you done for the day then?
 
Team Penske said:
If they would go with only green flag pit stops they would save a lot more and the stops would be a lot safer.
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They tried that about the same time pit road speeds were implemented. Those green flag only stops really seperated the field based on timing. You get an ill timed caution and the guy that just pitted gets to make up some lost pit time. While the car that has not pitted yet does not get the same perk after his pit stop. Cautions still are beneficial to the lucky, but the results are more significant with a green pit stop only rule, imo

I would rather just minimize cautions. Cautions breed cautions or better said they breed the restart carnage.
 
aunty dive said:
Still have to have someone plug in / remove the air supply hose.
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Maybe that could be the windshield tear-off man.

Imagine the possible permutations for a 2-tire stop... right side only as always, rears only to fire off without wheelspin on a late restart, fronts only to cure aero push. :D :dual9mm:
 
aunty dive said:
The systems are expensive multiplied by the number of cars in the fleet and add weight. Still have to have someone plug in / remove the air supply hose.
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An air hose man is probably less of a skill set, and cheaper than a jackman. Perhaps a good wrenchman or engineer is already present and on payroll. Someone capable of managing an airhose, but without the athleticism to handle the jack.
 
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That is my reason for green flag only pit stops. The hell with restarts, that just keeps giving the also runs another chance at dumping the lead car. BTW they would save on tires as well because I bet many would go for 2 tires under green than 4.
 
What about the addition of weight to the car and the affects it would potentially have on handling/aero? Wouldn't this require extensive testing and research ($) to get it right?

Plus add in the cost to equip these per car and it seems to me like it would take quite some time to actually see the benefit of any real cost cutting when you compare it to a measly jack and one man's salary.
 
Interesting idea, pretty much every other form of racing that has live pit stops use the air jacks, I would welcome it in a lot ways, but at the same, would hate to see the jackman go away.
 
AdoubleU24 said:
What about the addition of weight to the car and the affects it would potentially have on handling/aero? Wouldn't this require extensive testing and research ($) to get it right?

Plus add in the cost to equip these per car and it seems to me like it would take quite some time to actually see the benefit of any real cost cutting when you compare it to a measly jack and one man's salary.
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Its good thing that air jacks have been around probably longer than Ive been alive, I am sure it wont take very long for the teams to figure it all out, its not a very complicated system.
 
AdoubleU24 said:
What about the addition of weight to the car and the affects it would potentially have on handling/aero? Wouldn't this require extensive testing and research ($) to get it right?

Plus add in the cost to equip these per car and it seems to me like it would take quite some time to actually see the benefit of any real cost cutting when you compare it to a measly jack and one man's salary.
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can you imagine the cost involved for their pit guns, I can only imagine what they would spend for a faster air jack.
 
StandOnIt said:
can you imagine the cost involved for their pit guns, I can only imagine what they would spend for a faster air jack.
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Valid point, teams are doing their own R&D and manufacture of their pitguns in house, and those air guns are not cheap, I wouldnt be surprised if a entire air jack system is cheaper than the air guns the teams are using.
 
Part of the show is the pit crew. I've always enjoyed watching the pit crew doing their ballet around the car. The pit crew represents team of the car and is part of any success or failure at the race. I've seen pit stops evolve over the decades and I'm impressed at how they continue to develop their moves, responsibilities, and tools.
 
jws926 said:
Valid point, teams are doing their own R&D and manufacture of their pitguns in house, and those air guns are not cheap, I wouldnt be surprised if a entire air jack system is cheaper than the air guns the teams are using.
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It won't be after the teams get a hold of them..they will have special heights, drive off functions, forward or back lifts, on and on. :D There won't be any savings involved..more engineers, research to make the ultimate air jack system blah blah $$$
 
LewTheShoe said:
Maybe that could be the windshield tear-off man.

Imagine the possible permutations for a 2-tire stop... right side only as always, rears only to fire off without wheelspin on a late restart, fronts only to cure aero push. :D :dual9mm:
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There is no windshield guy.
 
I would think a move like this would be right up the safetyniks alley as it would remove a person that has the potential of getting hurt.
 
You can probably guess by my handle that I am EXTREMELY opposed to this. Not only is manually jacking the car a NASCAR tradition that showcases a real skill set, the air jacks have their own set of issues. In IMSA, the Continental Tire Series, which is like their Xfinity Series went to them, and the team owners were NOT happy about it at all. If NASCAR is SERIOUS about reducing costs, reduce the number of crew members that can actually touch the car during a event. Say we make the number ten and require each one of those ten to wear some type of distinguishing markings on their uniforms. That would force the teams to use only real mechanics to pit the cars instead of hired guns and reduce travel expenses. That would make ten times more sense than eliminating the jackman.
 
Seems to me like eliminating the jackman for safety but keeping the tire changer and gas man is kind of a contradiction. If they're that worried about safety, eliminate pit stops all together.


By the way, was anyone else listening to Dave Moody's show cheering when that dude fired right back at him. I loved it. I saw stream from Moody's ears coming through my radio. It was awesome.
 
Zerkfitting said:
Part of the show is the pit crew. I've always enjoyed watching the pit crew doing their ballet around the car. The pit crew represents team of the car and is part of any success or failure at the race. I've seen pit stops evolve over the decades and I'm impressed at how they continue to develop their moves, responsibilities, and tools.
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for sure, pit stops from the first timing line all the way out the other side is a big deal. Races can be won and lost in the pits. dumbing it down isn't going to help anything or save any money. I'm guessing (hoping) it was nothing more than a suggestion in a brainstorming session
 
Formerjackman said:
You can probably guess by my handle that I am EXTREMELY opposed to this. Not only is manually jacking the car a NASCAR tradition that showcases a real skill set, the air jacks have their own set of issues. In IMSA, the Continental Tire Series, which is like their Xfinity Series went to them, and the team owners were NOT happy about it at all. If NASCAR is SERIOUS about reducing costs, reduce the number of crew members that can actually touch the car during a event. Say we make the number ten and require each one of those ten to wear some type of distinguishing markings on their uniforms. That would force the teams to use only real mechanics to pit the cars instead of hired guns and reduce travel expenses. That would make ten times more sense than eliminating the jackman.
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that is an idea, but then you are going to have mechanics that can work and pit the car..that guy is going to make close to what two guys make, maybe more. if saving money is the goal that could backfire also.
 
Bowtie3 said:
Seems to me like eliminating the jackman for safety but keeping the tire changer and gas man is kind of a contradiction. If they're that worried about safety, eliminate pit stops all together.


By the way, was anyone else listening to Dave Moody's show cheering when that dude fired right back at him. I loved it. I saw stream from Moody's ears coming through my radio. It was awesome.
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Please fill me in. I always feel like I'm yelling out loud what I want these callers to say back to him and they never do.
 
IDK what it would cost to install these jacking systems but my guess is over the course of time it would save money or the discussion would not be taking place. People/employees are normally a company's greatest expense so the more you can get rid the more you can add to the bottom line or spend elsewhere.
 
AdoubleU24 said:
What about the addition of weight to the car and the affects it would potentially have on handling/aero?
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My concern about the added weight --- would the weight limit on the car be changed? If not, then something is going to have to be lighter to compensate for the weight of the jacking system -- could compromise safety of the driver.
 
AdoubleU24 said:
Please fill me in. I always feel like I'm yelling out loud what I want these callers to say back to him and they never do.
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He called Moody out for trying to argue with and belittle callers. Moody eventually hung up on him. It was great. Moody was seriously belittling the previous caller, who was a police officer. The caller said that he didn't like to see anyone hit buy a car but didn't want to see the jackman removed. Moody was pretty much calling the guy a hypocrite and saying that he can't have it both ways and spewing how ridiculous it is fir a first responder to think that way. The next guy lit him up. Big time. I want to by that guy a beer.
 
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