NASCAR Nationwide Series 250 at Indianapolis

QUESTION: Is there a span of time that Sadler would have needed to have given the position back?

PEMBERTON: No. We’re not going to get into that. The drivers know, the spotters know, the crew chiefs know what they need to do and the opportunities that come up to give them a chance to make those corrections.’’
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I am so very confused.
 
QUESTION: In your opinion you didn’t think that Keselowski was laying back at the RESTART?

PEMBERTON: “I would make a statement that says that most drivers come to the line in different speeds based on their strategies and gamesmanship.’’
 
Smoke14 said:
QUESTION: In your opinion you didn’t think that Keselowski was laying back at the RESTART?

PEMBERTON: “I would make a statement that says that most drivers come to the line in different speeds based on their strategies and gamesmanship.’’
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In other words, its up to NASCAR.

I think NASCAR needs to take a page out of IndyCar's notebook and call off restarts. I've seen them do it at my local short track before when the leader decides to brake check the field or has a real slow start.

A restart line should be a restart line, period. If you're not allowed to pass the leader or step out of line until you cross the start/finish line, then the start/finish line should be the restart line.
 
This is just from watching the race recap cause I missed it, but I think Elliott got the short end on this especially after the initial start seen no penalties handed down when Kahne got beat to the line. Seems Elliott lost a race not long ago for the samething. On a happier note though the Dillon boys looked damn good out there.
 
I had to work so I couldn't watch the race, but I'll give my input on a few things I saw from videos on NASCAR.com.

I did see that restart, but I didn't see how much time they actually gave Sadler before they threw the black flag. He was definitely in a tough spot, but he did beat keselowski to the line, which is a penalty. I'm neutral with these drivers, so I'm not being biased. If they threw the black flag right away, then they screwed him. However, if he had a lap or so to give the spot back and he still didn't give it back, then he deserved the penalty.

On another note...what the heck was Danica saying in that interview. She isn't sure if she actually made contact with Sorenson? She pretty much slammed into the back of him, so I can bet that she felt it. She was just trying to make an excuse, instead of saying that she screwed up.
 
Brent said:
I had to work so I couldn't watch the race, but I'll give my input on a few things I saw from videos on NASCAR.com.

I did see that restart, but I didn't see how much time they actually gave Sadler before they threw the black flag. He was definitely in a tough spot, but he did beat keselowski to the line, which is a penalty. I'm neutral with these drivers, so I'm not being biased. If they threw the black flag right away, then they screwed him. However, if he had a lap or so to give the spot back and he still didn't give it back, then he deserved the penalty.

On another note...what the heck was Danica saying in that interview. She isn't sure if she actually made contact with Sorenson? She pretty much slammed into the back of him, so I can bet that she felt it. She was just trying to make an excuse, instead of saying that she screwed up.
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Exactly. It's nice to hear an unbiased view on this rather than 1,000 and 1 excuses for Sadlers failure to understand the rules. I think that $100,000 dash for cash got the better of him. Even Austin knew Elliot couldn't beat Brad to the line by that much and backed off to give Elliot the chance to do the same. Elliot chose not to, then started running through one excuse after the other to justify his mistake. "Brad spun the tires". OK, that didn't work. "My teammate made me do it".

Brad understands the rules, and knew there was no reason to race Sadler once the black flag came out. If People actually watch the video, it's clear the Elliot and Austin are the 2 cars that break away from the line of cars first, then Brad goes. Perhaps nascar is giving Elliot the benifit of the doubt and feels that Austin pushed him. Who knows. But the one brutal fact that can't be ignored, no matter how much you love Elliot or hate Brad, is that Sadler KNEW he must give the position back entering turn 1. Instead, Sadler chose to drop down in front of Brad as he passed the S/F line a car and a half in front of the leader. STUPID, STUPID, STUPID. Elliot's spotter or CC had almost a full lap to tell Elliot to do what the rules require, but for some reason they didn't. If teammates pushing each other is an excuse for breaking the rules, we would see it every weekend.
 
Personally, I don't like seeing a race being decided by one restart. I would rather see 2 drivers race full speed for the win. Positions 1 and 2 should be single file. That would end most of this restart crap up front, and make for less wrecking on restarts and less do overs. Many of the restart wrecks behind the leaders are caused by the clutch dropping, engine revving, checking up nonsense going on at the front.
 
NASCAR just flat out blew the call and they know it. Not the first time and certainly not the last. The only people that think that Brad rightfully won that "race" are Brad and his loyalists.
 
It's funny how many excuses the Brad haters make when he wins. Elliot had his head up his ass and came up with one excuse after the other.

Elliot excuse #1: "I went in the box".
Yep, you sure did go in the box, which is why you weren't flagged for 'jumping the restart'. The problem is, you weren't the race leader, so you don't get to go whenever you want. The leader restarts the race, not the 2nd place car.


Elliot excuse #2: "He spun his tires".

Wrong. Brads incar audio says different. Elliot goes, and passes Brad, long before Brad ever hits the gas. No wheel spin can be heard, because his RPM's never take the wheel spin jump.


Elliot excuse #3: "The 3 car had me jacked up".

Total BS. The 3 went when Elliot went, and he never gets Elliot 'jacked up'. Even if he did jack Elliot up, should NASCAR allow teammates to get away with breaking the rules by blaming each other?

Elliot never offered an excuse for not giving the spot back after beating the race leader to the line by a car and a half.

It's clear, by Sadlers own words, that he just doesn't have a clue what the restart rules are.
 
FenderBumper said:
It's funny how many excuses the Brad haters make when he wins. Elliot had his head up his ass and came up with one excuse after the other.

Elliot excuse #1: "I went in the box".
Yep, you sure did go in the box, which is why you weren't flagged for 'jumping the restart'. The problem is, you weren't the race leader, so you don't get to go whenever you want. The leader restarts the race, not the 2nd place car.


Elliot excuse #2: "He spun his tires".

Wrong. Brads incar audio says different. Elliot goes, and passes Brad, long before Brad ever hits the gas. No wheel spin can be heard, because his RPM's never take the wheel spin jump.


Elliot excuse #3: "The 3 car had me jacked up".

Total BS. The 3 went when Elliot went, and he never gets Elliot 'jacked up'.

Elliot never offered an excuse for not giving the spot back after beating the race leader to the line by a car and a half.

It's clear, by Sadlers own words, that he just doesn't have a clue what the restart rules are.
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Brad haters and women haters oh my!!!
 
The calls made by Na$car yesterday concerning bush and sadler throroughly disgusts me. Yet again na$car was consistent in their inconsistency. Pemberton's "humida,humida,humida" comments in SB Nation proves that a mind is a terrible thing to waste. Has anyone suggested drug testing, maybe vision testing too, for the officials?
For the record I'm not a sadler fan or a brad h8tr. I'm just a fan who has watched racing go from men racing to a pretty boy contest with rules even officials can't fully explain.
That's my story, I'm sticking to it. YMMV. Think I'll watch Pro Bowling this afternoon, it's better entertainment.
 
FenderBumper said:
It's funny how many excuses the Brad haters make when he wins. Elliot had his head up his ass and came up with one excuse after the other.

Elliot excuse #1: "I went in the box".
Yep, you sure did go in the box, which is why you weren't flagged for 'jumping the restart'. The problem is, you weren't the race leader, so you don't get to go whenever you want. The leader restarts the race, not the 2nd place car.


Elliot excuse #2: "He spun his tires".

Wrong. Brads incar audio says different. Elliot goes, and passes Brad, long before Brad ever hits the gas. No wheel spin can be heard, because his RPM's never take the wheel spin jump.


Elliot excuse #3: "The 3 car had me jacked up".

Total BS. The 3 went when Elliot went, and he never gets Elliot 'jacked up'. Even if he did jack Elliot up, should NASCAR allow teammates to get away with breaking the rules by blaming each other?

Elliot never offered an excuse for not giving the spot back after beating the race leader to the line by a car and a half.

It's clear, by Sadlers own words, that he just doesn't have a clue what the restart rules are.
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Not too often that you're on the defensive, Fender.

Maybe you've found a new role on Racingforums and it'll give those KyBu fans a rest ;)
 
#17D500winner said:
Brake checking 101, my friends.
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I would have liked to seen a replay of this with the MPH visable. At any rate, I didn't like the call, but at the same time if Brad played the game and won more power to him. It's all part of racing and nobody can blame him.
 
#17D500winner said:
Not too often that you're on the defensive, Fender.

Maybe you've found a new role on Racingforums and it'll give those KyBu fans a rest ;)
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Defensive? Not at all. I initially though it was a BS call, but after watching the video and listening to engine RPM, it's absolutely clear that Elliot Sadler was the first guy to hit the gas. I think Elliot thought he was the race leader, because his first comment after the black flag came out was "I restarted in the box". The start in the box rule applies to the race leader only, because he's the only one who can rastart the race IN THE BOX.

I'm trying to educate some people here who just don't have a clue as to what the rules are.
 
According to the media, NASCAR's Hoots and Helton are a little pissed that drivers in the meeting are so oblivious to what the restart rules actually are.
 
At the tracks I frequent you go when the flag waves after crossing the marks on the wall. Go before or not go the start is waved off. Do it twice you've got 'splaining to do. 3 times? load up and go home.
 
Helton just said on ESPN that NASCAR will react if a car in the second row shoves the leader across the line. They also said in the past, they've put it in the drivers' hands but not anymore.
 
Helton seemed to be most annoyed by Austin Dillion pushing Sadler. Says next time, there could be a penalty to the pusher.

Excellent call by NASCAR. Letting teammates gang up on the race leader to take away his advantage can't be allowed.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Helton just said on ESPN that NASCAR will react if a car in the second row shoves the leader across the line. They also said in the past, they've put it in the drivers' hands but not anymore.
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As in, Elliot still gives the position back and avoids a penalty. I like that a pusher trying to circumvent the restart rules will be punished.
 
FenderBumper said:
As in, Elliot still gives the position back and avoids a penalty. I like that a pusher trying to circumvent the restart rules will be punished.
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In the past, NASCAR has said that it's fair if the leader gets a slow pass, and in the past, you've agreed. I guess it's different this time since it allowed Keselowski to win.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
In the past, NASCAR has said that it's fair if the leader gets a slow pass, and in the past, you've agreed. I guess it's different this time since it allowed Keselowski to win.
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lol No, it's different because Elliot Sadler was the first to take off. :rolleyes:

NASCAR looked at telementary, and that's what they decided. Deny it all you want. Brad kept a cool head and won. He was so sure, he backed off and went to fuel saving as soon as the Black flag waved. It isn't the first time he pawned a more experienced driver who didn't know the rules.
 
Okay Fender :rolleyes: I posted video in another thread of Brad Keselowski jumping the restart when the leader didn't get going and NASCAR calling it fair game. :rolleyes:
 
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/ij1slr

What #NASCAR told drivers today about starts/restarts ... pay attention to Helton's comments about what they may do:


David Hoots, Managing Event Director

“On the initial start, the caution car has determined the pace. He drops off in turn 4. The cars side-by-side, come up and when the starter waves the flag, the race is started and the leader is the first car to cross the start/finish line. It’s a really simple process. Really simple. On that, once you get cross the finish line, then you can start passing.

“Everybody in the field plays an important role in getting the race started off right. Every one. Whether it be this week you’re the pole starter or next week you’re the pole starter or the third week you’re starting third. This is a simple process. ... There’s some exceptions to the leader being beat to the start/finish line. They have to be very obvious. the leader, once he goes, has responsibilities. “I’m not trying to brake check the car, burp the car.’ He’s got that responsibility. The second-place car has the same shared responsibilities. “I’m not trying to take advantage of something that is this very simple that can create such a mess and ruin a lot of people’s days at the start.” You don’t change lanes, you don’t crossover, you don’t pass until you cross the start/finish line. We’ve been doing this for years.


“Restarts. It’s a little bit harder because we’re deeper in the race. The caution car has established the speed. He drops off in turn 4. The leader sets the pace into the restart zone. When he gets to the first double-line red line on the outer wall, it his option between the double red line and the single red line to restart the race properly. He’s earned that ... because he’s the leader. it does not give him rights or opportunities to screw around with the restart to drag his brakes or whatever. The second-place guy has the same set of roles. ... Stay in line and stay caught up and not try to gain advantage and mess it up for everybody. The third, fourth, fifth and sixth cars have the same responsibilities and roles. ... You all have a role in this. You have a role in it every week. Sometimes you’re role is from the pole and sometimes it’s from 43rd but you’re all responsible.

We have a role to monitor and we will monitor it. There are some circumstances and I’m not going stand up and list all the circumstances that we’ve discussed in the last three or four years that we went to double-file restarts on your role and responsibilities. You don’t know your role or responsibilities, lay over to the inside and drop to the very rear. We spend a lot of time talking about this, we tear up race cars, we ruin people’s days because we can’t handle the responsibilities. So let’s do it right and do it the way we know how we can do it so we don’t have to take extra steps. ... So I’m asking you to accept your responsibilities. During the race you can do it and you can do it right.’’

Later, Hoots asks for questions:

Jimmie Johnson asks if he’s on the front row and the car behind is pushing him past the leader before the start/finish line what should he do.

Hoots: “One, I’m hoping we’re not in that situation. Somebody is not accepting their role and responsibility. Two, you can drag your brake. Now, that’s not what I’m thinking. I think that we’re all very capable of coming up to speed and not trying to take advantage of a situation that’s not called for. I can’t give you a definitive way to do this. I promise you if you don’t want us to start policing down to the micrometer, whatever.


Jimmie Johnson then asks if series officials would consider throwing the caution flag if they didn’t like the restart.

At this point ... NASCAR President Mike Helton walks to the microphone to address the drivers.

HELTON: We’ve got a lot of rules and regulations around starts and restarts. It’s important to remember that they’re there so that it doesn’t matter if you’re on the front row, 12th row, second row or the fourth row that you’ve got an environment that you’ve got to restart the race in that you’ve got some semblance of idea of what is going to happen. That’s why it’s important, each one of you, to assume the responsibility you’ve got to restart the race. If you’re the leader, You’re supposed to restart in a very smooth and accelerated pattern. If you’re the second-place guy you’ve got to be careful and, under normal circumstances, the first-place guy has got to beat you back to the start/finish line. If you’re in the second or third row, you’ve got a responsibility too. If you try to shove the the guy in front of you to get him in trouble, we could react to that.

“What David just went through is an update. What we’ve done in the last two or three years is try to give as much as we can back to the drivers with all this stuff. The starts and restarts have changed. We’ve got a box now that you’re supposed to start in, we’ve got double-file restarts. All of you know how it’s supposed to be. If you want to get trick with it and it starts messing up the restarts for everybody else, then we’re going to step in. I guess you can kind of sort of maybe say this is your warning that if you’re in the second row, particularly today, if you try to shove a guy across the start/finish line and we’re pretty clear or even being close to be clear, you put us in a box now where we may react to that driver. We’re not going to let the whole race get screwed up because one guys is overanxious or overeager or over whatever it is that causes you to maybe forget.’’

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There you have it. Brad had a smooth enough restart to still be the leader coming across the line. Auston pushed Sadler, but that doesn't mean Brad loses his restart advantage to Elliot. Elliot knew what he needed to do, but he didn't.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Okay Fender :rolleyes: I posted video in another thread of Brad Keselowski jumping the restart when the leader didn't get going and NASCAR calling it fair game. :rolleyes:
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Who cares? We're talking about circumstances this week. I'm will to predict that the video you posted shows Brad 2 feet ahead, which has been OK with NASCAR when the leader spins his tires. A car length and a half can't be explained by a little wheel spin, and you know it.
 
The same stuff from drivers meeting, but broken down a little differently.

In light of Saturday's controversy over restarts at Indianapolis Motor Speedway, NASCAR race director David Hoots stepped to the microphone during Sunday's pre-race Sprint Cup Series drivers meeting and delivered a lecture.
It was equivalent to a schoolteacher scolding a class of rowdy students. The message? Start being more responsible on restarts or we'll step in – and you don't want that.
"We spend a lot of time talking about this," Hoots said sternly. "We tear up race cars, we ruin people's days because we can't handle those responsibilities. Whether it be you, I, whatever. We're all in it together.
"So let's do it right and do it the way we know how to do it so we don't have to take the extra steps of getting out there with micrometers and measurements and bring the field down. Usually, when we get involved to that point and you ask us to, you don't like the results! So I'm asking you to accept your responsibilities and do it properly."
Hoots said several times each driver had "roles and responsibilities" in starting and restarting the race. Whether it's the pole-sitter conducting a smooth restart or a driver on the second row not pushing the cars in front of him too much, all drivers need to play a part, he said.
"If this is not done in this very simple process, there's a chain reaction that occurs," he said. "... You have shared responsibilities on not trying to take advantage of something that's this simple and create such a mess that could ruin a lot of people's days at the start."
Hoots emphasized the flagman – not the pole-sitter – starts the race. The pole-sitter then must lead at the start line, barring "some exceptions." The leader, he said, should not brake-check or "burp" the car or do any kind of false start.
On restarts, the rule is different because the flagman isn't the decision-maker. The leader has earned the right to decide when to hit the gas in the restart zone, and the second-place car cannot beat him to the line. But the leader has not earned the right to "screw around with the restart," Hoots said.
"You all have a role in this," he said. "You have a role in this every week. Sometimes the role is from the pole, sometimes the role is from 43rd. But you're all responsible."
During the question-and-answer portion of the meeting, Jimmie Johnson was the only driver who dared speak up about restarts.
"So I understand my role and responsibilities, if I'm on the front row and I get pushed past the leader, what do I do?" Johnson asked.
"Well, one, I'm hoping we're not in that box because (it means) somebody is not accepting their role and responsibilities," Hoots replied. "Two, you can drag your brake – but that's not what I'm after. I think we're all very capable of coming up to speed and not trying to take advantage of a situation that's not called for.
"I can't give you a definitive way to do this, but I promise you, you don't want us to start policing it down to a micrometer."
Johnson persisted, pressing for a specific solution.
"Would you consider throwing a caution again for a proper restart?" he asked.
The crowd murmured. At that point, NASCAR president Mike Helton stepped to the microphone to deliver a lecture of his own. He told Johnson and the other drivers to do it the right way so NASCAR didn't have to consider any reactions.
"What we've tried to do the last two or three years is give as much back as we can back to the drivers to manage this stuff...and all of you know how it's supposed to be," Helton said. "But if you want to get trick with it and it starts messing up the restart for everyone else, then we're going to step in."
Helton also cautioned drivers against trying any funny business in the gray area of pushing another driver. One car should not push another past the leader, he advised.
"I guess you can kind of, sort of, maybe say this is your warning – especially today," Helton said. "If you try to shove a guy across the start/finish line and we're even being close to being clear (on the ruling)? Well, you put us in a box now and we may react to that driver.
"We're not going to let the whole race get screwed up because one guy is overanxious or overeager."

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For once, NASCAR gets it 100% right. I'm happy they aren't caving into pressure from uninformed race fans.
 
Matthew2470 said:
Every replay makes it clear that NASCAR just screwed up.
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If you can simply explain to me why Sadler ducked down in front of Brad INSTEAD of giving the position back, then I will take your side. Until then, I will still believe that Sadler screwed up by not giving the position back. If he thought he had a better car, then he could have given the position back, then went right back by Keselowski. It's almost like Sadler planned that with Dillon. If they didn't plan it, Sadler would have given the position back But he didn't give it back, most likely because he was hoping he could keep the position by claiming that it was Dillons fault for "jacking him up." Almost looks like it was a plan that Dillon and Sadler made, but isntead...that plan backfired.
 
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