NASCAR, once a cultural icon, hits the skids (WSJ)

aunty dive said:
Diamond Dave was a flashy guy.
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Diamond Dave is still pretty flashy at 62 years young.

David-Lee-Roth.jpg
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
The hotel costs and stuff are insane. When attendance has been cut in half, how do people think they are still going to get this much money out of a NASCAR race?

Pocono announced earlier they're holding qualifying on the same day as the race now. I've got a feeling this is gonna become more common.

And places like Charlotte, Martinsville, Richmond, Kansas, I could see them being able to draw more locals if the costs came down.
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Pocono doesn't even get 50K in the stands anymore even though they have huge populations within 90 minutes of the track.
 
Allenbaba said:
Yes and no. Obviously there's many factors that go into racing success stories, and there's many examples of people "buying" their way in, especially at the top levels. But you'd be surprised at how much effort does go into scouting drivers, really young drivers, you'd never think were even being scouted. Kids who don't have the equipment to win races are still being graded on a scale. I read this article earlier today about TRD's driver development. And I know enough about their inner workings to know how many kids they watch who have no idea they're even being watched. It's (refreshingly) more a meritocracy than you might think.

http://www.sbnation.com/2017/2/21/14625128/toyota-racing-development-nascar-sabermetrics
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Do you think those kids have anywhere near the opportunity Paul Menard, The Dillions etc...had?
From an outsiders veiw it looks like it was the last names opportunity to loose, while the odds were extremely slim for one of those unknown kids. Wonder how many hired coaching consults a poor boy gets?

I can't speak for Andy but I think I understand what he is saying. There are indeed more talented drivers that never had a chance, and the contrast between a gifted last name is an impossible thing to miss.
 
Allow me to take a minute to educate .

Lee Pulliam -- 3 time NASCAR WHELEN All American Series national champion. Has championships at South Boston and Motor Mile. Has over 100 wins in LMSC.

Derek Thorn -- former champion in K&N West and SRL Southwest Tour. Won the winter showdown a couple weeks ago.

Bubba Pollard -- badass who has won just about everything there is to win in Super Late Model racing except the Derby. I think he won the All American last year and also won the Winter Showdown in 2016 and Speedfest and is a former Southern Super Series champion.
 
Greg said:
Do you think those kids have anywhere near the opportunity Paul Menard, The Dillions etc...had?
From an outsiders veiw it looks like it was the last names opportunity to loose, while the odds were extremely slim for one of those unknown kids. Wonder how many hired coaching consults a poor boy gets?

I can't speak for Andy but I think I understand what he is saying. There are indeed more talented drivers that never had a chance, and the contrast between a gifted last name is an impossible thing to miss.
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Two main things needed: Money and a great network.

Menard and Dillon have those things down packed.

Some gifted, some earned the hard way. Harvick and Stewart mentioned it so many times, but money talks in this day and age.

This is why I'm a huge fan of smaller teams and guys like a Landon Cassill, 'Dinger, and Buescher. They had to earn their stripes and to get where they are, it's great to see. We need more of it and I think Andy brings a great point as well.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Allow me to take a minute to educate .

Lee Pulliam -- 3 time NASCAR WHELEN All American Series national champion. Has championships at South Boston and Motor Mile. Has over 100 wins in LMSC.

Derek Thorn -- former champion in K&N West and SRL Southwest Tour. Won the winter showdown a couple weeks ago.

Bubba Pollard -- badass who has won just about everything there is to win in Super Late Model racing except the Derby. I think he won the All American last year and also won the Winter Showdown in 2016 and Speedfest and is a former Southern Super Series champion.
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Nope! I've never heard of em so they obviously aren't qualified for a decent seat. /s
 
Kiante said:
Two main things needed: Money and a great network.

Menard and Dillon have those things down packed.

Some gifted, some earned the hard way. Harvick and Stewart mentioned it so many times, but money talks in this day and age.

This is why I'm a huge fan of smaller teams and guys like a Landon Cassill, 'Dinger, and Buescher. They had to earn their stripes and to get where they are, it's great to see. We need more of it and I think Andy brings a great point as well.
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I always thought Menards loveable personality made all the difference, If only Jim Bob would have followed his example.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Allow me to take a minute to educate .

Lee Pulliam -- 3 time NASCAR WHELEN All American Series national champion. Has championships at South Boston and Motor Mile. Has over 100 wins in LMSC.

Derek Thorn -- former champion in K&N West and SRL Southwest Tour. Won the winter showdown a couple weeks ago.

Bubba Pollard -- badass who has won just about everything there is to win in Super Late Model racing except the Derby. I think he won the All American last year and also won the Winter Showdown in 2016 and Speedfest and is a former Southern Super Series champion.
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The deal with "hometown heroes" in other sports is that schools have sports programs that the local people can attend for chump change. Those same kids eventually move on to college athletics & make themselves a household name.

Motorsports doesnt have that luxury.
 
Biggreen695 said:
What's the point of going 220 mph if aero is king and the racing sucks?

More braking in the turns=more in the drivers hands=better racing.

Michigan before they started tweaking the aero packages is a prime example of this


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Skoalbandit33 said:
At first blush it makes sense to think that racing is about speed but in reality it is just about being faster than the other guy whether it is at 120 or 220 mph. The differential in speeds between the cars makes racing interesting for me not watching an aero-fest and 190.
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If cars are going 220 mph they will definitely be braking in the turns a lot more. Cars going at 120 mph wouldn't have to brake a bit at most tracks. Slower speeds would also make for longer race times that would probably force NASCAR to go to shorter races which I don't want to see.
 
aunty dive said:
Agree.
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I was thinking the Penske rumors were more true. Then he resigns with RCR, it's a bad time for him and Newman. Both Austin and Ty are going to receive a **** ton of resources from them.

I wish them the best, but a bright #12 Menards Penske-Ford would have been nice to see...
 
Acs said:
"Roger Penske, a race-team owner, says the typical Nascar fan makes $ 35,000 to $45,000 a year. Nascar says average household income of fans is $70,000, close to the U.S. average, citing data from Nielsen Scarborough."

Yep, they're clueless.
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The way prices are id say fans that ATTEND races are in the pay scale NASCAR claims. When you include those who just watch and follow it probably drops considerably.
 
NASCAR is making more money from TV revenue and that is where they are focusing their attention. The TV coverage is great, but it has come at the expense of attendance at races
 
29-4 said:
Was about to come post this. Those who are whistling past the graveyard should take note. WSJ is a serious publication that doesn't deal in hyperbole.
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I don't think anyone is whistling past anything. Yes, one could say Brian France is doing exactly that, based on his arrogant, pablum-like statements about the state of the sport, when he talks about digital consumption of Nascar, etc. But I think the evidence is strong that BZF is well aware of the seriousness of the situation caused by declining attendance and TV ratings.

He just doesn't know what to do about it. That's why he has caved to the drivers on aerodynamics, caved to the owners on the franchise system, caved to the teams/drivers on the playoff points, caved to TV on race stages, and caved to Monster on the sponsorship. To me, Brian France looks like a wounded leader who knows he needs a plan, and is willing to get it from any industry player. Brian would much rather be the Benevolent Dictator of Nascar like his daddy was. But he ain't his daddy, and these times are not his daddy's times either. JMO.
 
LewTheShoe said:
I don't think anyone is whistling past anything. Yes, one could say Brian France is doing exactly that, based on his arrogant, pablum-like statements about the state of the sport, when he talks about digital consumption of Nascar, etc. But I think the evidence is strong that BZF is well aware of the seriousness of the situation caused by declining attendance and TV ratings.

He just doesn't know what to do about it. That's why he has caved to the drivers on aerodynamics, caved to the owners on the franchise system, caved to the teams/drivers on the playoff points, caved to TV on race stages, and caved to Monster on the sponsorship. To me, Brian France looks like a wounded leader who knows he needs a plan, and is willing to get it from any industry player. Brian would much rather be the Benevolent Dictator of Nascar like his daddy was. But he ain't his daddy, and these times are not his daddy's times either. JMO.
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I think you're on to something, but I would paint the same behavior in a somewhat different light. I believe the key traits on display are spiraling desperation and insecurity, which I think started in earnest before outward metrics like ratings and attendance went south. NASCAR's ability to reverse recent trends and turn its fortunes around depends on there being a substantial potential audience that can be convinced to consume NASCAR, whether they are first-time customers or returning ones. Any business, but especially entertainment ones, needs to project strength and confidence to sell itself to people who might be persuaded. The actions and messages coming out of many of the sport's prominent figures, not just Brian France, suggest a deep internal dissatisfaction with the product and a desperation to become something else in an effort to please. There are all sorts of psychological analogies to be made here that people recognize and experience in everyday life. The bottom line is that it is not an attractive quality.

I agree that this doesn't actually constitute "whistling past the graveyard". As you say, France's public comments lean in that direction, but the underlying actions are anything but. The only folks somewhat deserving of that label are those who offer up constant meek excuses; "Every sport changes its rules", "The NFL was down last year too", anything to deny and deflect from the obvious and real direction the WSJ article is addressing.
 
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FLRacingFan said:
This might be the most astounding part to me. Stakeholders from different parts of the industry put together a come to Jesus meeting and neither of them show up.
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If Brian and his sister didn't realize this was their Come To Jesus moment, then I think this sport is doomed sadly.
 
Acs said:
Yep. Sports business journal just happened to have an article come out yesterday talking about 12 potential changes "bubbling beneath the surface". Hmmm.

https://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2017/02/20/In-Depth/Proposals.aspx

Adam Stern tweeted screenshots of two of them: #1 A salary/expense cap for teams. #8 Quieter cars.
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As I found the segements weren't gimmicky enough. Frances are flinging Hail Mary's now

BobbyFord said:
The problem is that they are owned.
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Owned by NBC it seems.

I am looking forward to during Daytona 500 media day now is how the NASCAR media will attempt to spin this WSJ article as a positive or (maybe not even bring up). Just stink this sport and those in charge need to be asking themselves the hard questions and when they do, they keep coming up with the wrong answers. I saw the post about Lowe's cutting back or leaving all together, that is a huge eye opener.
 
Snappy D said:
I am looking forward to during Daytona 500 media day now is how the NASCAR media will attempt to spin this WSJ article as a positive or (maybe not even bring up). Just stink this sport and those in charge need to be asking themselves the hard questions and when they do, they keep coming up with the wrong answers. I saw the post about Lowe's cutting back or leaving all together, that is a huge eye opener.
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Bad press is better than no press
 
Snappy D said:
I am looking forward to during Daytona 500 media day now is how the NASCAR media will attempt to spin this WSJ article as a positive or (maybe not even bring up). Just stink this sport and those in charge need to be asking themselves the hard questions and when they do, they keep coming up with the wrong answers. I saw the post about Lowe's cutting back or leaving all together, that is a huge eye opener.
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I'm going to go out on a short limb and guess that they aren't going to ask about any of this today.

As far as the Lowe's post. Reads like nothing more than an unsubstantiated rumor to me. Is there any source of this info posted? Was it reported by anyone in the media? If so, I didn't see it. If anyone's got a link I'd be interested in reading the story.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I'm going to go out on a short limb and guess that they aren't going to ask about any of this today.

As far as the Lowe's post. Reads like nothing more than an unsubstantiated rumor to me. Is there any source of this info posted? Was it reported by anyone in the media? If so, I didn't see it. If anyone's got a link I'd be interested in reading the story.
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Is it wrong to think that if Brian France speaks today, a GOOD journalist would ask his thoughts about this article? IMO he or she would.
 
Snappy D said:
I am looking forward to during Daytona 500 media day now is how the NASCAR media will attempt to spin this WSJ article as a positive or (maybe not even bring up). Just stink this sport and those in charge need to be asking themselves the hard questions and when they do, they keep coming up with the wrong answers. I saw the post about Lowe's cutting back or leaving all together, that is a huge eye opener.
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Eh, it's just another negative article about the sport. It's more high-profile than most, but it will get no more mention from the Powers That Be than any of the others.
 
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