NASCAR, once a cultural icon, hits the skids (WSJ)

dpkimmel2001 said:
I'm going to go out on a short limb and guess that they aren't going to ask about any of this today.

As far as the Lowe's post. Reads like nothing more than an unsubstantiated rumor to me. Is there any source of this info posted? Was it reported by anyone in the media? If so, I didn't see it. If anyone's got a link I'd be interested in reading the story.
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Just a rumor. I'm a former employee with close friends (in management and at corporate) that are still employed there. They talk a lot.

If they do cut back sponsorship it's solely due to their financial woes, and has nothing to do with nascar's ratings or Brian France or whatever. Just my opinion. But with their corporate restructuring, laying people off, etc, I think anything is possible.
 
Snappy D said:
Is it wrong to think that if Brian France speaks today, a GOOD journalist would ask his thoughts about this article? IMO he or she would.
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Absolutely. No other sport has such sycophantic media as NASCAR does. They are more Baghdad Bob than Walter Cronkite.
 
Snappy D said:
Is it wrong to think that if Brian France speaks today, a GOOD journalist would ask his thoughts about this article? IMO he or she would.
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Brian speaking? LOL thats a good one.

All he did during the new format changes was sweat profusley & introduce someone smarter than himself.
 
2 Sweet said:
Just a rumor. I'm a former employee with close friends (in management and at corporate) that are still employed there. They talk a lot.

If they do cut back sponsorship it's solely due to their financial woes, and has nothing to do with nascar's ratings or Brian France or whatever. Just my opinion. But with their corporate restructuring, laying people off, etc, I think anything is possible.
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My gf is a
ChexOrWrex said:
Brian speaking? LOL thats a good one.

All he did during the new format changes was sweat profusley & introduce someone smarter than himself.
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ha ha he did look a bit drenched, maybe it was the lighting
 
Snappy D said:
My gf is a

ha ha he did look a bit drenched, maybe it was the lighting
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aunty dive said:
There is no other sport in which athletes, competitors or teams rely upon corporate sponsorship as their primary revenue stream.
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See this is what people are still struggling to grasp. Someone listed a few drivers (that no one has ever heard of) that may have the talent to drive at higher levels but it all comes down to whether or not a company wants them representing them. I see people stating "NASCAR needs to stop acting like a stick and ball sport" but they apply stick and ball methodology in terms of evaluating whether or not a driver should be in Cup.

Getting back to the topic at hand, in order for NASCAR to stop the bleeding and reverse the trend there must be compelling reasons for fans to watch. There needs to be an emotional connection and fierce rivalries.
 
The NASCAR folks in charge need to take a long close look at Indy Car. That series has shot itself in the foot so many times that its turned into a ratings nightmare. I don't even know what network it's on anymore nor do I care. NASCAR is going down that same path.
 
Kiante said:
I think Paul is better than what he's given credit for.
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I agree. He's a consistently pretty good driver that does a good job taking care of his equipment and doesn't make stupid mistakes. You put him in a car from a team with the best cars in the field like the Gibbs cars and I think he'd easily be winning races every year.
 
NJJammer said:
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oops my mistake, I deserved that I didnt delete what I was going to say properly. I was going to say my gf is a Lowe's employee at a store and they lay off management every 6-8 months it seems.
 
FLRacingFan said:

1. SALARY/EXPENSE CAP FOR TEAMS
2. CREATE A FRANCHISE MODEL
3. HOLD MIDWEEK RACES
4. MAKE RACES SHORTER
5. SCHEDULE ONE-DAY OR TWO-DAY RACE WEEKENDS RATHER THAN THREE DAYS
6. REDUCE THE NUMBER OF RACES
7. TWEAK THE EXCLUSIVITY MODEL OF THE SPORT
8. MAKE THE CARS QUIETER
9. INCORPORATE EMERGING AUTOMOTIVE TECHNOLOGIES LIKE ELECTRIC VEHICLES
10. CHANGE TRACK CONFIGURATIONS TO SLOW CARS DOWN
11. ADD MORE ROAD COURSES AND/OR SHORT TRACKS TO THE SCHEDULE
12. ADD INTERNATIONAL RACES

They go into some detail as to why each could/couldn't work but that's the gist of it.
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1. Undecided
2. I thought that was what the charters accomplished
3. Could work. Summertime is full of reruns and garbage reality shows.
4. Not sure. I could see adding a time limit to races so they don't go too long. Then fiascos like the Indy tire race could be put down quicker.
5. Fine
6. No
7. Don't know what they're getting at here. Do away with the exclusivity clauses that forced out other phone companiy sponsors when Nextel/Sprint took over? I'm all for that.
8. F1 fans have hated that change. Nascar would be no different.
9. Instead of pit stops have car swaps like Formula E?
10. Some tracks need something done to improve the race quality, that's for sure.
11. Definitely! :headbang:
12. Every time they've ran the Canadian road courses it's been entertaining. Heck, combine 11 and 12 and have Nascar run the full Nurburgring; stock cars meet The Green Hell, with Monster's flourescent green logos plastered all over.
 
I've heard of the drivers Andy mentioned. But that is because I am a huge fan of short track racing of all types. That may explain why I have very few concerns as NASCAR devolves back into the sport I used to enjoy.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I'm going to go out on a short limb and guess that they aren't going to ask about any of this today.

As far as the Lowe's post. Reads like nothing more than an unsubstantiated rumor to me. Is there any source of this info posted? Was it reported by anyone in the media? If so, I didn't see it. If anyone's got a link I'd be interested in reading the story.
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I have nothing concrete about Lowes but I did contact a person I know that has been with the company for many years and he believes something is in the wind. Apparently there have been some major staff reductions with more to come. IDK how this would impact sponsorship of the 48 or if it would at all.
 
be9ak7ts16 said:
The NASCAR folks in charge need to take a long close look at Indy Car. That series has shot itself in the foot so many times that its turned into a ratings nightmare. I don't even know what network it's on anymore nor do I care. NASCAR is going down that same path.
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I do think that if someone wants to see what NASCAR will look like in 10 years all they need to do is look at Indy Car today. One year we had Emo and Little Al at Indy and the next we had Billy Boat and Buzz Calkins. It has never been the same since.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
I do think that if someone wants to see what NASCAR will look like in 10 years all they need to do is look at Indy Car today.
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What's funny about this comment is that many fans think there should be a "split" in NASCAR like there was in Open Wheel, even though the split was catastrophic for American Open Wheel racing. The sport never recovered, and never will.
 
Zerkfitting said:
If there is less money for NASCAR and the teams, they will learn to operate on a different budget. There will probably always be core fans to support the sport at some level.
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I agree as just like open wheel exists I think NASCAR will too.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
What's funny about this comment is that many fans think there should be a "split" in NASCAR like there was in Open Wheel, even though the split was catastrophic for American Open Wheel racing. The sport never recovered, and never will.
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A NASCAR split would likely be a disaster
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
What's funny about this comment is that many fans think there should be a "split" in NASCAR like there was in Open Wheel, even though the split was catastrophic for American Open Wheel racing. The sport never recovered, and never will.
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I agree with you on the Split and it was bad news for Indy Car. But the sport is recovering, at a very slow rate. The ratings were higher last year, they have a great series sponsor that supports the series ( maybe could promote a bit more, but they are getting there IMO) new sponsors entering to sponsor teams ( Yes Target leaving is a huge blow but Ganassi trying to get Amazon to replace), killer schedule with a variety of well attended tracks/races and good young talent. Yes Indy Car still has its problems but if NASCAR keeps going at the pace its going I could see them being equal within 5-10 years and Indy Car passing them after that.
 
Snappy D said:
I agree with you on the Split and it was bad news for Indy Car. But the sport is recovering, at a very slow rate. The ratings were higher last year, they have a great series sponsor that supports the series ( maybe could promote a bit more, but they are getting there IMO) new sponsors entering to sponsor teams ( Yes Target leaving is a huge blow but Ganassi trying to get Amazon to replace), killer schedule with a variety of well attended tracks/races and good young talent. Yes Indy Car still has its problems but if NASCAR keeps going at the pace its going I could see them being equal within 5-10 years and Indy Car passing them after that.
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"The ratings were higher"

From like 0.25 to 0.3? I love INDYCAR, but the ratings are remarkably low.

Again, shows on The CW, which is famous for being a B-list network with terrible ratings, are getting higher ratings.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
"The ratings were higher"

From like 0.25 to 0.3? I love INDYCAR, but the ratings are remarkably low.

Again, shows on The CW, which is famous for being a B-list network with terrible ratings, are getting higher ratings.
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This article states ratings are up, 10% but down on NBCSN. Again, ratings will never be what they were during CART days but the sport is making gains. To push that aside is a mistake, IndyCar is getting healthy. http://www.ibj.com/blogs/4-the-score/post/60668-indycar-ratings-up-overall-but-down-on-nbcsn
 
Snappy D said:
This article states ratings are up, 10% but down on NBCSN. Again, ratings will never be what they were during CART days but the sport is making gains. To push that aside is a mistake, IndyCar is getting healthy. http://www.ibj.com/blogs/4-the-score/post/60668-indycar-ratings-up-overall-but-down-on-nbcsn
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A majority of the races are on NBCSN. :lol2:

It's really the same story every year though, a couple races on ABC post a pretty good gain, pushing the average up, even though a majority of races are down. The ratings are so low that one race on ABC getting 1.8 million viewers instead of 1.2 million viewers, pushes the overall ratings up.

NBCSN is a disaster for INDYCAR, just as it has been for NASCAR. But, just like NASCAR, nobody else is interested in INDYCAR.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
I have nothing concrete about Lowes but I did contact a person I know that has been with the company for many years and he believes something is in the wind. Apparently there have been some major staff reductions with more to come. IDK how this would impact sponsorship of the 48 or if it would at all.
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I'm going to be spending about $450 this afternoon @ Lowe's. I've spent a ton there and @ Home Depot over the past six weeks or so working on some DIY projects. I can only do so much myself but maybe my money will help employ someone an additional day? Or not. :cool:
 
Here's what needs to happen to bring NASCAR back to past glories:
1.) The last healthy racing rule/change to make a positive impact was pit road speed limits. Anything since has been a downer for racers and/or fans. Retract pretty much anything put in place since.
2.) The last great independent driver was Alan Kulwicki. There are too many restrictions that limit a true independent from getting to and into a race. Look at what has changed since and adjust to give them a better chance.
3.) There are more but I'll stay politically correct for the time being.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
A majority of the races are on NBCSN. :lol2:

It's really the same story every year though, a couple races on ABC post a pretty good gain, pushing the average up, even though a majority of races are down. The ratings are so low that one race on ABC getting 1.8 million viewers instead of 1.2 million viewers, pushes the overall ratings up.

NBCSN is a disaster for INDYCAR, just as it has been for NASCAR. But, just like NASCAR, nobody else is interested in INDYCAR.
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Brush aside the incremental increase thats fine, laugh at it if you must. But Indy Car is on the uprise, if you've ever watched a race I think you'd see that they have the better product right now.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
I have nothing concrete about Lowes but I did contact a person I know that has been with the company for many years and he believes something is in the wind. Apparently there have been some major staff reductions with more to come. IDK how this would impact sponsorship of the 48 or if it would at all.
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Official news: Lowe’s has announced its second round of layoffs in just over a month, saying more than 500 full-time corporate employees companywide will lose their jobs. On Jan. 17, Lowe’s announced approximately 2,400 full-time workers would be laid off. A majority of the cuts were at the store level.

My opinion: With numbers like that something's gotta give. The multi-million dollar Nascar sponsorship would be a good bet to get the axe. With ratings in the tank it's not getting them the eyeballs it used to. They might get more exposure other ways, possibly with less investment.
 
CamelPowered said:
Official news: Lowe’s has announced its second round of layoffs in just over a month, saying more than 500 full-time corporate employees companywide will lose their jobs. On Jan. 17, Lowe’s announced approximately 2,400 full-time workers would be laid off. A majority of the cuts were at the store level.

My opinion: With numbers like that something's gotta give. The multi-million dollar Nascar sponsorship would be a good bet to get the axe. With ratings in the tank it's not getting them the eyeballs it used to. They might get more exposure other ways, possibly with less investment.
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Nature's Bakery to the 48 in 2018.
 
This all makes me think that maybe NASCAR will become a niche sport again and be MUCH MUCH smaller back to the early ESPN days

Zerkfitting said:
If there is less money for NASCAR and the teams, they will learn to operate on a different budget. There will probably always be core fans to support the sport at some level.
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CamelPowered said:
Official news: Lowe’s has announced its second round of layoffs in just over a month, saying more than 500 full-time corporate employees companywide will lose their jobs. On Jan. 17, Lowe’s announced approximately 2,400 full-time workers would be laid off. A majority of the cuts were at the store level.

My opinion: With numbers like that something's gotta give. The multi-million dollar Nascar sponsorship would be a good bet to get the axe. With ratings in the tank it's not getting them the eyeballs it used to. They might get more exposure other ways, possibly with less investment.
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I can't figure that out. With the rebound in housing construction, you'd think all those new home owners would be buying things.
 
Snappy D said:
Brush aside the incremental increase thats fine, laugh at it if you must. But Indy Car is on the uprise, if you've ever watched a race I think you'd see that they have the better product right now.
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I'm putting perspective in it. INDYCAR's ratings are so low that it really only takes one race having 500,000 more viewers than last year to push the overall ratings for the year up.

The most glaring fact is that ratings for the Indianapolis 500 were down and ratings for the races on NBCSN were down across the board. That means that, for a majority of the races, there were fewer people watching. There are only a few other races shown on ABC, which makes my scenario the most likely -- that one race on ABC drew a fluke ratings increase. And if there was a race that came on immediately after an NBA game or even before an NBA game, that would make sense.

The same thing has happened with the NASCAR Championship race the last two years. They fluked big league ratings because people were tuning in for Football Night in America and the race ran long.

But, yes, I agree, the racing in INDYCAR is way better than NASCAR.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
The most glaring fact is that ratings for the Indianapolis 500 were down and ratings for the races on NBCSN were down across the board. That means that, for a majority of the races, there were fewer people watching.
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The best way to gain perspective is to look at trends over several years, not a single season. NBCSN's 2016 IndyCar ratings were down about 4% from 2015, which were up 34% from 2014, which were up 34% from 2013. Indy 500 ratings have fluctuated but are basically flat since 2011-2012.

It's not all roses. Viewership is still a fraction of NASCAR's audience, and if IndyCar were really booming, so would be the Indy 500. Instead it's recovering more slowly. But the real overall trend for IndyCar is an upward one, while the one time NASCAR behemoth is contracting year after year (nine of the past ten, every year since 2014). It is much easier to increase an audience that was already decimated in decades prior like IndyCar, but these are the real current trends.
 
gnomesayin said:
The best way to gain perspective is to look at trends over several years, not a single season. NBCSN's 2016 IndyCar ratings were down about 4% from 2015, which were up 34% from 2014, which were up 34% from 2013. Indy 500 ratings have fluctuated but are basically flat since 2011-2012.

It's not all roses. Viewership is still a fraction of NASCAR's audience, and if IndyCar were really booming, so would be the Indy 500. Instead it's recovering more slowly. But the real overall trend for IndyCar is an upward one, while the one time NASCAR behemoth is contracting year after year (nine of the past ten, every year since 2014). It is much easier to increase an audience that was already decimated in decades prior like IndyCar, but these are the real current trends.
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Counterpoint: Where do you go once you've hit rock bottom? And, while they may be increases, we're really only talking about a few thousand people more.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Counterpoint: Where do you go once you've hit rock bottom? And, while they may be increases, we're really only talking about a few thousand people more.
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To an extent yes, as I said: "It is much easier to increase an audience that was already decimated in decades prior like IndyCar".

They are doing something correct though. It's not true that there is any preordained natural recovery after hitting rock bottom. Most businesses just plain die when that spiral sets in. If IndyCar had continued to be as badly mismanaged as it was in the early 2000's, it would be a one-race series today. They are growing and have managed to significantly bolster regular viewership and a core audience during the past several years. I wish them the best, and I wish NASCAR / stock car racing the best too, though I think new leadership is absolutely required for that to happen.
 
The silver lining to INDYCAR hitting rock bottom has been that teams finally got it through their heads that they needed to cut costs to improve the product. It hasn't always been smooth, see the rollout of the common DW-12 chassis, but open wheel wouldn't exist in this country anymore if they had continued an F1 style R&D race. I pray it doesn't take something as drastic for NASCAR to get the message.
 
gnomesayin said:
To an extent yes, as I said: "It is much easier to increase an audience that was already decimated in decades prior like IndyCar".

They are doing something correct though. It's not true that there is any preordained natural recovery after hitting rock bottom. Most businesses just plain die when that spiral sets in. If IndyCar had continued to be as badly mismanaged as it was in the early 2000's, it would be a one-race series today. They are growing and have managed to significantly bolster regular viewership and a core audience during the past several years. I wish them the best, and I wish NASCAR / stock car racing the best too, though I think new leadership is absolutely required for that to happen.
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I don't think INDYCAR will die off as long as there's an Indianapolis 500.
 
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