NASCAR - Television Ratings Thread

Spotter22

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Yea I know it was Jimmie Johnson's long time sponsor. The point (that you clearly missed, knowing you it was probably intentional) was walk into any store today, Target, walmart, a great clips, your local grocery store, whatever... and ask a stranger who Alex Bowman is. If you did the same experiment 20 years ago, or even today with Stewart, Johnson, Gordon, or hell even Michael Waltrip... more would know them and have no idea who Bowman is.
You dont know me and using Home Depot vs Lowes for someone to recognise a Hendrick driver is comical.
 

Spotter22

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Or we could have 24/38 races on a main network like Fox, NBC, ESPN/ABC, CBS and the other 14 on cable networks. Instead of the 19-20 we get.

NASCAR would rather chase the dollars than the exposure it seems, unfortunately
NASCAR works with the television partners, NASCAR cant tell them what to do. Have you ever heard of NFL Sunday Ticket?
 

Spotter22

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Yes. It just seems to me, when you have a 6-week stretch from May 1 to June 12 where only 1 race is on Fox, there's a tendency for "out of sight, out of mind" to set in, especially in this day and age where people are cord-cutting. And then after Nashville on NBC, 11 of the 13 next Cup races are on USA, which doesn't help matters. From May 1 through September 30, there's only 4 Cup races on either Fox or NBC this season.
You can watch every single race for pennies on the dollar.
 

FLRacingFan

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There is no road course fatigue in my house, but there certainly is short track fatigue around here. Just my opinion.

Actually, I was surprised to see FL's comment that the roadies don't rate well on TV. I'm not doubting the comment, it's just that I didn't know it before. I believe the short tracks generally pull small TV audiences as well as small live attendance.
COTA was the smallest FOX race of the season I believe. Indy had a huge drop when it debuted the road course for Cup cars last year. The Roval had a bigger first number when it debuted compared to previous Charlotte fall races but fell off afterwards. There are some bright spots here and there but for the most part they tend to rate lower.

I think you’re right about the short tracks too.
 

RHRFan#1

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You dont know me and using Home Depot vs Lowes for someone to recognise a Hendrick driver is comical.
I have no idea how you are this far off from what i was trying to say. I'll just leave it there I think
 

RHRFan#1

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No the original post was extremely clear and 5+ posters liked the post. Obviously they understood it perfectly fine. I'm sorry you weren't able to join them in that understanding, but that's not my problem.

You could instead choose to address the merits of what that post said, or the other posts of mine said. But you've proven you'd rather not sadly.
 

StandOnIt

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COTA was the smallest FOX race of the season I believe. Indy had a huge drop when it debuted the road course for Cup cars last year. The Roval had a bigger first number when it debuted compared to previous Charlotte fall races but fell off afterwards. There are some bright spots here and there but for the most part they tend to rate lower.

I think you’re right about the short tracks too.
Cota was almost a tie with dirt Bristol for the big FOX basement. It has never made any sense which tracks they pick for FOX or FS-1
 

LewTheShoe

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I know some of you may be skeptical, but I really don't think this guy is skoalpunkhoopsmcvittie. His style isn't quite the same, and he didn't mention how much Velveeta paid to sponsor Newman
This forum is generally welcoming and receptive to new members. This guy has had a rough landing and chilly reception, which frankly feels somewhat unfair and hard to read. It is an unfortunate legacy of this forum's whack-a-mole history with SkoalPunkHoopsMcvittie, the OG deathbedder and cheapshot personal insult artist.

There are obvious trust issues. And the duelling machine guns style... it takes two to tango. I hope he can demonstrate that he's more than a one-note deathbedder who always has to have the last word... time will tell.
 

Jorge De Guzman

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Or future TV Dollars. My take is they (networks) keep paying Nascar to show up each week. Until they stop paying them, I’ll reserve my concern for then. Tough outing for the new guy, I’m not sure he knew that this has been debated countless times. I thought he had some good points to at least debate over, a different way of presenting them than what’s been illustrated in the past...but the key thing is nascar is still raking in that oh so sweet Network tv cash. And for the record I don’t think it’s Skoal Bandit 33 reincarnated for a 4th time, it’s a totally new person, but maybe just as concerned as Hoops was.
 

Spotter22

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Or future TV Dollars. My take is they (networks) keep paying Nascar to show up each week. Until they stop paying them, I’ll reserve my concern for then. Tough outing for the new guy, I’m not sure he knew that this has been debated countless times.
He's been notified but thats no deterrent evidently.
 

Jorge De Guzman

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He's been notified but thats no deterrent evidently.
I’ll say that the ratings debates never caught my attention, especially now. People consume content so many different ways now, I just watched most of last week’s race on my phone. That’s an avenue that wasn’t available 10,15 years ago. I just think relying on the weekly ratings numbers to make a point is risky because I’m not sure if most fans especially younger ones are rushing to their tv’s at the green flag like I used too and still do. There’s tablets, phones and DVR to watch races now, it’s a changing world. Obviously my take is very simplified and we’ll see what the networks value the racing product at when it’s time to negotiate, but I would feel very good in making the assumption nascar is going to be paid handsomely well for the right to broadcast their product...in whatever fashion that might be.
 

RHRFan#1

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That was simply to illustrate that nobody else had trouble understanding the point that post was making, except for you. I'm sorry you couldn't understand it, but again that's not really my problem.
 

RHRFan#1

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I’ll say that the ratings debates never caught my attention, especially now. People consume content so many different ways now, I just watched most of last week’s race on my phone. That’s an avenue that wasn’t available 10,15 years ago. I just think relying on the weekly ratings numbers to make a point is risky because I’m not sure if most fans especially younger ones are rushing to their tv’s at the green flag like I used too and still do. There’s tablets, phones and DVR to watch races now, it’s a changing world. Obviously my take is very simplified and we’ll see what the networks value the racing product at when it’s time to negotiate, but I would feel very good in making the assumption nascar is going to be paid handsomely well for the right to broadcast their product...in whatever fashion that might be.
The different ways people consume what they are watching is able to be tracked and to my knowledge is included in the viewership numbers that are released. They are much better at tracking that today, then compared to 5 years ago or so, but I'm sure it's not perfect just yet
 

Daytripper

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I rarely watch a race live anymore. I dvr it and watch it on Monday most of the time. How am I (and the many other people like me) counted in the ratings?
 

Jorge De Guzman

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The different ways people consume what they are watching is able to be tracked and to my knowledge is included in the viewership numbers that are released. They are much better at tracking that today, then compared to 5 years ago or so, but I'm sure it's not perfect just yet
I can’t speak intelligently on how this stuff is tracked now, not well versed in it. Maybe you’re right in that regard,I just think in the overall grand scheme of things.....the ratings debate is a much to Do about nothing. Should there be some concern as to what you alluded to? Maybe...but they’re still getting paid. Hard to argue against that in my view.
 

FLRacingFan

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I rarely watch a race live anymore. I dvr it and watch it on Monday most of the time. How am I (and the many other people like me) counted in the ratings?
You would be included in the Live+3 ratings. DVR viewing tends to favor scripted programming more, but that also eliminates ad viewing - hence why networks pay out the ass for live sports.

You can see in these charts that FOX NASCAR (among other sports) saw no effect from DVR viewing for the 18-49 demo, and a 4% bump across Live+3 and Live+7 for all viewers.

 

FLRacingFan

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Yes. It just seems to me, when you have a 6-week stretch from May 1 to June 12 where only 1 race is on Fox, there's a tendency for "out of sight, out of mind" to set in, especially in this day and age where people are cord-cutting. And then after Nashville on NBC, 11 of the 13 next Cup races are on USA, which doesn't help matters. From May 1 through September 30, there's only 4 Cup races on either Fox or NBC this season.
It’s a tough balance because you want to ride the wave of momentum that starts with the Daytona 500 as long as possible, so front-load with FOX races. Then you want your playoff races, which are disadvantaged by going against football, to be broadcast OTA, so back-load with NBC races.
 

AndyMarquisLive

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Or we could have 24/38 races on a main network like Fox, NBC, ESPN/ABC, CBS and the other 14 on cable networks. Instead of the 19-20 we get.

NASCAR would rather chase the dollars than the exposure it seems, unfortunately
It literally doesn’t matter if the races are on broadcast or cable. The 18-49 viewership will be the same. Which are the only ratings that matter.

And the ratings don’t matter as much anymore anyway. Engagement is just as important.

NASCAR is gonna get paid when the contract negotiations heat up. They’ll probably get even more money, especially since someone like Apple or Amazon will try to join the party.
 

AuzGrams

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It literally doesn’t matter if the races are on broadcast or cable. The 18-49 viewership will be the same. Which are the only ratings that matter.

And the ratings don’t matter as much anymore anyway. Engagement is just as important.

NASCAR is gonna get paid when the contract negotiations heat up. They’ll probably get even more money, especially since someone like Apple or Amazon will try to join the party.

Lol
 

AndyMarquisLive

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Anyone know what percentage of the country's TV viewers are limited to over-the-air?
More than people think. Lots of people like NASCAR on main networks.
Not among the 18-49 crowd which is all that matters to advertisers.

The NCAA Men’s Basketball Chanpionship saw a ratings increase on TBS/TNT vs CBS last year and the Final Four matchup between UNC and Puke on TBS had even more viewers.



I don’t know what all the “NASCAR died when Dale died” people are gonna do when races end up on Apple TV + or Amazon Prime.
 

AndyMarquisLive

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Apple paid $2.5 BILLION for MLS, which literally nobody else wanted.

Fox, NBC, and ESPN all have interest in NASCAR. And who knows, maybe TBS/TNT/HBO are interested. So there’s already demand.

And what’s stopping Apple or Amazon from sliding onto the negotiation table with a $10 billion offer?

Sports content is at a premium because it drives subscriptions. Someone’s gonna come into this contract negotiation and drop a huge number.

NASCAR getting paid.
 

AuzGrams

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Not among the 18-49 crowd which is all that matters to advertisers.

The NCAA Men’s Basketball Chanpionship saw a ratings increase on TBS/TNT vs CBS last year and the Final Four matchup between UNC and Puke on TBS had even more viewers.



I don’t know what all the “NASCAR died when Dale died” people are gonna do when races end up on Apple TV + or Amazon Prime.

I don’t know why you care so much about this petty crap. Clearly you love the rich and hate the poor. And I don’t know what you’re gonna do when all the races are on a TV network as usual.
 

AndyMarquisLive

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I don’t know why you care so much about this petty crap. Clearly you love the rich and hate the poor. And I don’t know what you’re gonna do when all the races are on a TV network as usual.
Streaming services are cheaper than cable. In fact, I’ve heard from years how people would be willing to pay $10-$20 to just watch NASCAR and not have to pay $80+ for cable.

And there’s a better chance of Melissa Benoist flying into my bedroom in the next hour than there is of all 36 NASCAR races being shown on ABC and Fox. Even the NFL has games on cable and on streaming.

People might as well make their peace with streaming.
 

FLRacingFan

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Not among the 18-49 crowd which is all that matters to advertisers.

The NCAA Men’s Basketball Chanpionship saw a ratings increase on TBS/TNT vs CBS last year and the Final Four matchup between UNC and Puke on TBS had even more viewers.

That was highly matchup-driven. If Dook, UNC, and Kansas played on CBS they would’ve earned even more viewers. And sports viewership was still more depressed in spring of 2021.

There’s not any FS1 race that came anywhere near a FOX race in viewership, not even in the demo. And it’ll be the same the rest of the year. USA bled like 10 million subs just over the last year and a half.
 

AndyMarquisLive

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That was highly matchup-driven. If Dook, UNC, and Kansas played on CBS they would’ve earned even more viewers. And sports viewership was still more depressed in spring of 2021.

There’s not any FS1 race that came anywhere near a FOX race in viewership, not even in the demo. And it’ll be the same the rest of the year. USA bled like 10 million subs just over the last year and a half.

So we're just going to come up with excuses when sporting events see ratings increases or don't see declines on cable?

Some of the same people I see on Facebook who bitch about NASCAR races being on USA instead of NBC didn't have a single problem finding TBS to watch UNC/Puke. This thing where fans want EVERYTHING on Fox and NBC is strictly a NASCAR thing. Because most of the viewers are very old.



The 18-49 viewership changes from broadcast to cable are negligible since it only accounts for 20% of the fanbase to start with. And FS1, honestly, is low rated to start with. USA will be an absolute disaster because it's a bad fit for NASCAR, not because it's a cable network.

"Access to cable" isn't the problem. And the more fans whine and cry about how they can only afford to watch NASCAR over the air (when the same people have no problem watching ESPN on cable), the less attractive the sport is to sponsors.

Nobody under the age of 50 is ONLY watching TV through a pair of rabbit ears.
 

RHRFan#1

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I haven't looked at USA since 'Psych' ended. What makes it a 'bad fit'? What networks do you think would be good ones?
People don't tend to think of going to USA network to find sports. So the casual sports fan bored on a Sunday may find and watch a NASCAR race if it was on NBC... but I doubt many would think to themselves "hey let's go check out USA". The most recent Indycar race on USA was absolutely horrific with viewership at Detroit.

As for better channels or networks? I don't know. With the loss of NBCSN that's a tough spot to be in for NBC Sports trying to broadcast 16 Cup races. But I do think the ratings on USA will be really rough as well.
 

AndyMarquisLive

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I haven't looked at USA since 'Psych' ended. What makes it a 'bad fit'? What networks do you think would be good ones?

USA isn't a sports network, it's not a place you go to watch sports. Hell, USA isn't a network you go to watch anything right now. They'd be better off shipping those races to MSNBC.

On cable: ESPN, obviously, and TNT. CBS would be a good fit for NASCAR since both respective audiences skew much older. But CBS isn't interested as of the last time it was discussed.

Fact is, NASCAR has a problem with younger viewers ... in that they don't have any. But ratings don't matter anyway.
 

Mispeedway15

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USA isn't a sports network, it's not a place you go to watch sports. Hell, USA isn't a network you go to watch anything right now. They'd be better off shipping those races to MSNBC.

On cable: ESPN, obviously, and TNT. CBS would be a good fit for NASCAR since both respective audiences skew much older. But CBS isn't interested as of the last time it was discussed.

Fact is, NASCAR has a problem with younger viewers ... in that they don't have any. But ratings don't matter anyway.
It’s fallen a long way from the Suits, Psych, Burn Notice days
 

Charlie Spencer

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Heck, other than motorsports and golf, I haven't looked at the 'Big Four' networks since 'Big Bang Theory' ended. Just not watching as much TV overall.
 

FLRacingFan

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So we're just going to come up with excuses when sporting events see ratings increases or don't see declines on cable?

Some of the same people I see on Facebook who bitch about NASCAR races being on USA instead of NBC didn't have a single problem finding TBS to watch UNC/Puke. This thing where fans want EVERYTHING on Fox and NBC is strictly a NASCAR thing. Because most of the viewers are very old.



The 18-49 viewership changes from broadcast to cable are negligible since it only accounts for 20% of the fanbase to start with. And FS1, honestly, is low rated to start with. USA will be an absolute disaster because it's a bad fit for NASCAR, not because it's a cable network.

"Access to cable" isn't the problem. And the more fans whine and cry about how they can only afford to watch NASCAR over the air (when the same people have no problem watching ESPN on cable), the less attractive the sport is to sponsors.

Nobody under the age of 50 is ONLY watching TV through a pair of rabbit ears.

Traditional sports television is highly brand/matchup-dependent, that’s just how it is. An Alabama game topped the charts on ESPN one week last fall, but that doesn’t mean if it were on CBS it wouldn’t have been even higher. Even among streaming services for the most part your local stations are going to be included in more base packages than cable channels. And for Cup races the difference between cable and OTA can be between 200-300K viewers just among the 18-49 demo. Steve Phelps himself has said they know how important sponsorship is to team budgets and that OTA is still going to be a major focus for them. Obviously it can’t be all of it, and streaming will probably have a bigger role in some way.

I agree with your broader points about needing to improve the demo, and USA not being a draw for sports fans. The NHL has done very well this postseason being on traditional sports-heavy nets like ESPN/2, TBS/TNT. Much better than having playoff games bumped to USA and CNBC.
 

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