Nationwide Race Thread - Iowa

ted@economy said:
I don't know for sure that either one would have made it into Nascar if it weren't for their daddies. Add Buddy Baker , Dale Jarrett and a dozen others . I'm just talkin about having a way to get into cup racing . It could be daddies influence , daddies money , or a diversity program . Basically it is a way in , what you do once you get in is up to you.
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Some of the top drivers in Nascar today had none of those things to help them. They may have had the support of their families but they got there by hard work, talent and driving cars which some of them worked on themselves. If they happen to get noticed by the right people, that's the payoff for being good at what they do.

Have you read that article about Biffle's road to the cup ranks?
 
ted@economy said:
I don't know for sure that either one would have made it into Nascar if it weren't for their daddies. Add Buddy Baker , Dale Jarrett and a dozen others . I'm just talkin about having a way to get into cup racing . It could be daddies influence , daddies money , or a diversity program . Basically it is a way in , what you do once you get in is up to you.
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I forgot all about the diversity program. Now I canput your earlier joke into the proper context. I'm not sure that program provides more than an initial opportunity in the lower series, but they'll have to do something with it. NASCAR is doing this to help draw a larger audience, so these drivers are being used by nascar, and they would be fools to say no.
 
Aric Almirola and Johanna Long were both involved in NA$$CAR's Diversity program. And there are many "behind the scenes" people who have benifitted from the program as well. It's certainly NOT an Affirmative Action program but one that gives "minorities" an opportunity to show their abilities.
What they do from there is up to them.
 
FenderBumper said:
I forgot all about the diversity program. Now I canput your earlier joke into the proper context. I'm not sure that program provides more than an initial opportunity in the lower series, but they'll have to do something with it. NASCAR is doing this to help draw a larger audience, so these drivers are being used by nascar, and they would be fools to say no.
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I'm really not fond of the program or the way it works. Unfortunately the sport has changed from night to day what it used to be. Racing has become an immensely expensive sport even at a local level. It's really not all about talent anymore, it's about if you have the money and sponsorship to bring to the team. Of course Earnhardt, Petty and the older guys got there passion and in to the sport by their fathers. So did I, many of us love racing cause we grew up with it. But those guys paid there dues. If they knocked a fender off they had to put that fender back on. Look at racing though just from a local or low tier traveling series. A Late Model (Asphalt) needs tires every week, at least 12 gallons of fuel. Entry fees, admission, getting the car to the track and all the sudden your at a thousand dollars or more to go out and run a 50-100 lap race. That's just the weekly costs before you tear it up and do maintenance. Before any of that though you gotta build the car. You can't get away with building motors in the garage anymore, you gotta have a motor package cause the guy that's winning does and you have to beat him. Motors have gotten quite expensive. I gotta quote a couple weeks ago from a major motor builder for a car we're building, steel block and heads and it was over $25,000. the game has changed. These drivers with the money will go straight to the top now. A guy that's mentioned on here quite a bit, Timmy Hill never won an ARCA or East race and is in Nationwide. Why? Money. Look at his racing resume and tell me he got to Nationwide and Cup because his ability to drive a racecar. Sadly, the days of pure talent getting you a seat is gone. Owners can't find funding. Matt Kenseth is a Champion and a 2 time Daytona winner. He's not fully sponsored. That's just one example. Look at RCR, 3 cars to 4, back to 3, up to 4 and now....3. If it wasn't for Paul Menard, that'd be a 2 car operation. Sorry for the rant!!!! Lol
 
Just watched my recording of the race:
What in the hell was the 7 team thinking by taping up the brake opening? Just plain idiotic.

Watching that 54 car is fun.

Stenhouse is awesome at that track.
 
Matthew2470 said:
Just watched my recording of the race:
What in the hell was the 7 team thinking by taping up the brake opening? Just plain idiotic.
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Tony jr really hasn't made any changes to the cars all season for the better. Either Danica isn't giving enough information or he just isn't listening to her.
 
Stewart Fan said:
Tony jr really hasn't made any changes to the cars all season for the better. Either Danica isn't giving enough information or he just isn't listening to her.
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There seems to be a communication break down between the two of them.
 
Stewart Fan said:
Tony jr really hasn't made any changes to the cars all season for the better. Either Danica isn't giving enough information or he just isn't listening to her.
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It's hard to adjust on a car when the driver isn't going hard often enough. IMO, Danica is still trying to glide the car around the track instead of really driving it in and setting the suspension so Eury knows what is going on with the setup.

Matthew2470 said:
Just watched my recording of the race:
What in the hell was the 7 team thinking by taping up the brake opening? Just plain idiotic.
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WTF?

.
 
Stewart Fan said:
Tony jr really hasn't made any changes to the cars all season for the better. Either Danica isn't giving enough information or he just isn't listening to her.
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She said the car was way better after the stop and she was able to drive through all of the lap down cars after getting the free pass, right up to the lead lap cars. Then POP! the right front blew out.
 
FenderBumper said:
WTF?
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During Danica's post-wreck interview on ESPN she mentioned that the team thought the brake temps were too low (not sure how they determined that without telemetry) and decided to put some tape on the opening. Goodyear confirmed that they melted the bead. And Tony Jr confirmed to ESPN that they did indeed add some tape to the brake duct opening.

I do not get it. At the start of the race she was throwing the car into the turns with plenty of aggression until the handling when away and she was doing great after the adjustments. But the bead melted. Not sure what they were thinking there.
 
Matthew2470 said:
She said the car was way better after the stop and she was able to drive through all of the lap down cars after getting the free pass, right up to the lead lap cars. Then POP! the right front blew out.
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I guess she needs to be more specific when she asks Jr to do something to make her faster.
 
Danica needs a veteran to set the car up in practice so she has a better idea of what to look for.
 
FenderBumper said:
It's hard to adjust on a car when the driver isn't going hard often enough. IMO, Danica is still trying to glide the car around the track instead of really driving it in and setting the suspension so Eury knows what is going on with the setup.
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I dunno Fender , I don't think that you can blow the hell out of a right front just 'trying to glide the car around' , I think that she was bustin her butt . And the crew chief let her down.
 
ted@economy said:
I dunno Fender , I don't think that you can blow the hell out of a right front just 'trying to glide the car around' , I think that she was bustin her butt . And the crew chief let her down.
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Maybe you and Matt are right. It just seems that a driver needs to go hard early in the race to figure out what he needs, then lay back. She seems to wait until the end to go hard, and the car isn't ready for that.

Who knows, but they sure are off in the woods.
 
FenderBumper said:
Maybe you and Matt are right. It just seems that a driver needs to go hard early in the race to figure out what he needs, then lay back. She seems to wait until the end to go hard, and the car isn't ready for that.

Who knows, but they sure are off in the woods.
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My basic problem is , only half a dozen cars blew the right front . .Those crew chiefs were wrong , the rest were right . You can argue that it was driver error , but I think the crew has a duty to put a car on the track that will last till the end of the race even if there is a replacement driver in it. If it is a track that requires camber and you put too much camber in it ,it's crew chief error . If it is a track that needs bead blowers and you tape up the intake ,it's crew chief error .
 
ted@economy said:
My basic problem is , only half a dozen cars blew the right front . .Those crew chiefs were wrong , the rest were right . You can argue that it was driver error , but I think the crew has a duty to put a car on the track that will last till the end of the race even if there is a replacement driver in it. If it is a track that requires camber and you put too much camber in it ,it's crew chief error . If it is a track that needs bead blowers and you tape up the intake ,it's crew chief error .
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I don't think anyone blames Danica for the blown tire, because Eury covered the air duct. I've heard teams call for the fan to be turned off, but I've never heard about a team covering the opening.

Bottom line, if the car handled better, that kind of desperation move wouldn't be necessary. I CAN'T assume that Eury is incapable of doing better with GOOD driver feedback.

That's just the way I see it. Danica is having trouble understanding these hard to drive, low tech cars.
 
FenderBumper said:
I don't think anyone blames Danica for the blown tire, because Eury covered the air duct. I've heard teams call for the fan to be turned off, but I've never heard about a team covering the opening.

Bottom line, if the car handled better, that kind of desperation move wouldn't be necessary. I CAN'T assume that Eury is incapable of doing better with GOOD driver feedback.

That's just the way I see it. Danica is having trouble understanding these hard to drive, low tech cars.
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Guess that we will have to disagree on that one Fender .
 
Stewart Fan said:
Tony jr really hasn't made any changes to the cars all season for the better. Either Danica isn't giving enough information or he just isn't listening to her.
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Tony Jr. is a *******; just ask Dale Jr., cuz he didn't do crap for him, either. The only thing that was good when Tony Jr. was Dale Jr.'s CC was that you were sure to hear some entertaining arguing on the radio between family members.
 
FenderBumper said:
I don't think anyone blames Danica for the blown tire, because Eury covered the air duct. I've heard teams call for the fan to be turned off, but I've never heard about a team covering the opening.

Bottom line, if the car handled better, that kind of desperation move wouldn't be necessary. I CAN'T assume that Eury is incapable of doing better with GOOD driver feedback.

That's just the way I see it. Danica is having trouble understanding these hard to drive, low tech cars.
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She just needs more time in stock cars. She improves in every race as the race goes on. I scan her every race and her communication and feedback is very good.
 
One of her biggest hurdles will be Eury Jr.- no pun intended - as I don't think he's anywheres near a good CC.
 
My first real honest to goodness big time race, after years of short trackin it, was on the sand at daytona with my dad. My first Daytona 500 was 1967 and after the race watching some guys fight because a furriner ( foreigner) won the race. I sincerely hope that Danica kicks the crap out of some of the prima donna big boys in our sport. My first hero was Fireball then Lee Petty and Ned Jarrett then Richard Petty and others. For the past bunch of years I am mostly just a race fan of the serious kind. Cant stand the, I'll run over you in a race car but run and hide when it's butt whippin time, type of drivers. I've seen Danica try her best to get to a driver, male and female, who did her wrong. She is improving faster than I thought possible. Keep it up Danica and prove me right.
 
Why are people saying she's improving? Running part time last year, she finished an average 1 place better than her starting position. This year, she loses an average of 4 positions.

Read the stats. She's not getting better, she's a lot worse. Maybe she needs a different CC.
 
FenderBumper said:
Why are people saying she's improving? Running part time last year, she finished an average 1 place better than her starting position. This year, she loses an average of 4 positions.

Read the stats. She's not getting better, she's a lot worse. Maybe she needs a different CC.
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Stats don't tell the entire story. Those of us who scan her during races and watch her lap times see the gains. Stats don't reflect those things.
 
Matthew2470 said:
Stats don't tell the entire story. Those of us who scan her during races and watch her lap times see the gains. Stats don't reflect those things.
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In competitive sports, statistics are the only gauge we have. Everything else is opinion. No doubt there are Steven Wallace fans that will say he's the best driver in Nascar.

However, I think a driver needs more than a few races for the stats to mean something. Surely Jeff Gordon's ability isn't going to be decided based soley on the 11 races so far this year.
 
#17D500winner said:
In competitive sports, statistics are the only gauge we have. Everything else is opinion.
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Stats are one guage. What we see, hear and know is another guage. I love looking at stats for all types of things, being sports or other, but stats are just one aspect of evaluation.
 
Matthew2470 said:
Stats don't tell the entire story. Those of us who scan her during races and watch her lap times see the gains. Stats don't reflect those things.
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Sure they do. It's called loop data.

Danica's loop data for 2011.

Danica's loop data for 2012.

Comparing the 2, one surprising thing stands out. Her starting position seems to be better this year, but her finishing position is MUCH worse. Read the stats and tell me how she's better now than last year. Scaning her radio is surely fun, but stats don't lie.

I think she needs a change in CC. I don't think that Eury Jr or Eury Sr are going to work for her. Perhaps a driver coach like Bayne had at MWR would help her adjust her open wheel talent to stock cars. IMO, if some changes aren't made soon, her confidence will be in a dumpster at Jr's western town compound.
 
FenderBumper said:
Why are people saying she's improving? Running part time last year, she finished an average 1 place better than her starting position. This year, she loses an average of 4 positions.

Read the stats. She's not getting better, she's a lot worse. Maybe she needs a different CC.
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I thought she'd improve more on the tracks she's already visited. I definitely think there's more issues in that team than her though. The car doesn't seem to be right and I think they're asking her to do a little too much. She's a very inexperienced stock car driver. You can't tape up a brake duct and tell her to keep off the brakes like she's a veteran. It's not gonna work.
 
Thegroundpounder99 said:
I thought she'd improve more on the tracks she's already visited. I definitely think there's more issues in that team than her though. The car doesn't seem to be right and I think they're asking her to do a little too much. She's a very inexperienced stock car driver. You can't tape up a brake duct and tell her to keep off the brakes like she's a veteran. It's not gonna work.
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that was a dumb desperation move. I do think a better CC would help her, but one she can connect with.
 
LOL

I don't see anywhere in the stats that she got teammate wrecked her at Daytona or that she blew a tire at Iowa. Relying relying solely on stats to form an opinion is just lazy. Loop data is fun to look at but it's only a small peice of the story.
 
Matthew2470 said:
LOL

I don't see anywhere in the stats that she got teammate wrecked her at Daytona or that she blew a tire at Iowa. Relying relying solely on stats to form an opinion is just lazy. Loop data is fun to look at but it's only a small peice of the story.
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I guess you got lazy and didn't look at the DNF's in 2011? Relying on radio communication and ignoring stats is insane dude. You're smarter than that.
 
Patrick's media coverage has definitely improved - depending on your point of view, I suppose ;)
 
Matthew2470 said:
LOL

I don't see anywhere in the stats that she got teammate wrecked her at Daytona or that she blew a tire at Iowa. Relying relying solely on stats to form an opinion is just lazy. Loop data is fun to look at but it's only a small peice of the story.
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You guys will no doubt agree that while Matt likes Danica , Fender doesn't have much use for her . The stats sure prove Fender's side , but there aren't enough of them to be considered proof of anything . I thought that her crew did a poor job last week , but a good job in the previous race . Again , the jury is still out on that too.
 
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