Charlie Spencer
Road courses and short tracks.
NASCAR making changes. NASCAR will foot the bill. Finger pointing. Accusations flying. Personal dignity insulted. Mud flung.
Do I have it all down?
Do I have it all down?
Next Gen Upgrades
- Thread starter aunty dive
- Start date
KTMLew01
Team Owner
I believe the outrage expressed is that it's taken basically 8 months for them to even acknowledge the car MIGHT be too stiff. Some of the experts here suggested that before the first race. <might be some sarcasm here>
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The first change noted in the document is the introduction of new rear bumper struts, which are triangular supports that hold the bumper beam to the rear clip. These struts will be replaced with a new part that will see material thickness change to 0.080 inches in order to allow them to crumple better. These struts can be seen above in red and blue. The bumper beam itself will carry over from this season.
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The rear clip and center section will not be replaced, but will be altered and updated. These changes will be done as these parts are sent to Technique Chassis–the single-source vendor that builds and maintains these components–for refurbishment. The costs for the fabrication, materials and labor to make these updates during refurbishment will be covered by NASCAR and teams will only be responsible for usual finish work like painting.
The rear clip will see the removal of the longitudinal bars (marked in red in the illustration above) along with a change to the lower rails (marked in yellow). They now seem to be designed as compound mitered tubes (in green on the right). These bars sit parallel to the racing surface and contribute to the stiffness of the overall chassis. Removing and modifying them should allow that area to crumple better in rear-end impact incidents.
The rear clip will see the removal of the longitudinal bars (marked in red in the illustration above) along with a change to the lower rails (marked in yellow). They now seem to be designed as compound mitered tubes (in green on the right). These bars sit parallel to the racing surface and contribute to the stiffness of the overall chassis. Removing and modifying them should allow that area to crumple better in rear-end impact incidents.
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The center section has a number of changes, starting with the outer diagonal tubes on the rear (in purple above). These bars will be replaced with the same cross-sectional tubes that now feature a trigger on the inboard side. The outer diagonal tubes on the bottom (in orange above) will be replaced by 1.75-inch diameter tubes that feature an 0.65-inch wall along with triggers. The inner diagonals (in green) will be reduced to 1-inch diameter tubes with a 0.065-inch wall without triggers. The intention of designing certain tubing with a trigger is typically to improve the ability to absorb impact energy in a progressive and controlled manner by a local modification of material properties. This is meant to allow the deformation of the material to be introduced precisely where it forces the tubular structure to deform in a mode of high energy absorption and reduces the maximum load in a controlled manner.
KTMLew01
Team Owner
LOVE LOVE LOVE this article. Never heard of the trigger deal. Typed much longer reply but it would just get ridiculed by the regulars. So I deleted 90% of the drivel. Whatever.Quite a bit more detail on rear clip and back of center section changes here.
I wonder if it’s possible to discuss them without reminding ourselves who’s to blame in every second sentence?
Leaked Memo Shows Changes NASCAR Is Making to Fix Next Gen Race Car Safety Concerns
The safety of the Next Gen chassis has been a hot topic recently.www.roadandtrack.com
I'd like to know exactly what trigger means. Is it a groove cut into the tubing? A notch? A partridge in a pear tree? TALK TO ME!
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All of these changes combined focus on introducing more things that can crumple and absorb energy between the rear of the car and the driver compartment. This should result in an increase in safety, and less force on the driver during a rear-end impact. The introduction of this update plan for 2023 signals that drivers were likely pleased with what NASCAR showed them from simulations done on these parts during their meeting last weekend.
It is apparent that safety is the primary focus of this update because the changes will likely result in some increased costs going forward. While NASCAR will pay for the initial updates, the parts will likely see a shorter lifespan in the future because of the reduced structure. The parts will have to be refurbished more often to bring them back into spec after smaller incidents. In addition to the refurbishment costs, the other concern with the changes will be how well the chassis pieces keep in compliance over multiple races, as components are more likely to bend now with less support. This could result in them falling out of specification for inspection requirements sooner and requiring more frequent visits back to be refurbished.
Those concerns are minor compared to the possible safety benefits. It also shows that NASCAR and team owners are willing to invest in a solution that can be deployed quickly in order to improve safety for drivers, even if there is a cost for everyone going forward.
Teams will have to strip down all their current cars to the bare chassis that they wish to use for the 2023 season and will send them to the vendor for refurbishment. This means that the shops and Technique chassis will be busy over the winter as they update hundreds of rear clips and center sections.
NASCAR did not immediately respond to our request for comment.
It is apparent that safety is the primary focus of this update because the changes will likely result in some increased costs going forward. While NASCAR will pay for the initial updates, the parts will likely see a shorter lifespan in the future because of the reduced structure. The parts will have to be refurbished more often to bring them back into spec after smaller incidents. In addition to the refurbishment costs, the other concern with the changes will be how well the chassis pieces keep in compliance over multiple races, as components are more likely to bend now with less support. This could result in them falling out of specification for inspection requirements sooner and requiring more frequent visits back to be refurbished.
Those concerns are minor compared to the possible safety benefits. It also shows that NASCAR and team owners are willing to invest in a solution that can be deployed quickly in order to improve safety for drivers, even if there is a cost for everyone going forward.
Teams will have to strip down all their current cars to the bare chassis that they wish to use for the 2023 season and will send them to the vendor for refurbishment. This means that the shops and Technique chassis will be busy over the winter as they update hundreds of rear clips and center sections.
NASCAR did not immediately respond to our request for comment.
KTMLew01
Team Owner
And to be clear, not doubting the term. Just curious what it means specifically.
KTMLew01
Team Owner
It's a shame NASCAR can't trust the teams to do these mods themselves. Be a ton faster. I'm sure they have the phone # of previous employees that could handle it.
StandOnIt
Farm Truck
Who in Nascar has said anything about not trusting teams? It says that the Revs will be done in the off season. precisely, in jigs, according to plans and specs by the OEM.
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I would bet money that Technique has upgrades, revisions and any other developments written into the supply contract as their work.
And they have a bunch of jigs, robotic / programmable welders, a now experienced crew and everything else they need to make this plan work on schedule.
Rodney Childers et al can continue to try to tweak for 3 pounds of downforce without getting caught.
Trust and professional auto racing teams in the same sentence. LOL
And they have a bunch of jigs, robotic / programmable welders, a now experienced crew and everything else they need to make this plan work on schedule.
Rodney Childers et al can continue to try to tweak for 3 pounds of downforce without getting caught.
Trust and professional auto racing teams in the same sentence. LOL
KTMLew01
Team Owner
The parts are being shipped back to the "one source provider"? Why NOT allow the teams to modify them? Cause teams can't be trusted to build a better mousetrap? Take less than week for Hendrick to be ready to do ALL the GM stuff. Same for Penske/Ford. Gibbs/Toyota. If you wanted to separate them into manufactures. Then let teams randomly choose their subassemblies. They all interchange, right? Make it like a trip to the mall. But nothing is marked as to who built it. Hendrick isn't gonna build a part to advantage a Ford or Yota team. Amiright or delusional? Wait...don't answer that you big old meanie.
KTMLew01
Team Owner
Hadn't thought of idea in first sentence. Just seems like a ton of stuff to get pushed thru in next 3 months. Maybe not.
Only problem I see with this idea is I doubt Technique has 12? guys standing around with nothing to do. It'll get done though.
StandOnIt
Farm Truck
I posted the reasons above. That's a Technique chassis.The parts are being shipped back to the "one source provider"? Why NOT allow the teams to modify them? Cause teams can't be trusted to build a better mousetrap? Take less than week for Hendrick to be ready to do ALL the GM stuff. Same for Penske/Ford. Gibbs/Toyota. If you wanted to separate them into manufactures. Then let teams randomly choose their subassemblies. They all interchange, right? Make it like a trip to the mall. But nothing is marked as to who built it. Hendrick isn't gonna build a part to advantage a Ford or Yota team. Amiright or delusional? Wait...don't answer that you big old meanie.
2 Sweet
HMS 4-life
They will tell us the crashes feel harder because the wrecks this year are happening at different angles at speeds never seen before.
LewTheShoe
Seeking Skill-based Meritocracy... More HP Less DF
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NASCAR didn't give a specific date when this project began, but they did say it was early this year. When they announced last week that crash tests were imminent, they said design work and computer modeling had been underway since early in the year. I believe Steve Phelps also acknowledged he should have come on R-F every week to communicate what's happening and get corrected by our R-F experts, who do CFD algorithms in their heads rather than using computers (LOL).
It's obviously a complex and detailed response to the problem. I don't know if it could have been done quicker, but I do know it's a complex project with numerous steps involved. It's an added plus financially that the existing components are getting modified rather than junked and replaced entirely.
Next I'd like to know what they are doing to improve how the car races...
1. There is too much drag, and this saps the horsepower that should be available to provide acceleration off corner exit to complete a pass.
2. There is too much downforce, primarily from the underbody and rear diffuser, and this causes excessive cornering speeds and minimal braking at most tracks.
Items 1. and 2. both contribute to processional races, with a particular problem being fast cars that get mired back in the pack and unable to work their way forward.
3. An improved steering rack needs to be developed, something that will not fail so often.
4. Managing heat buildup in the c0ckpit needs a better solution than chopping holes in the windshield and rear window.
5. I continue to advocate for a tire pressure sensor that's monitored electronically at pit exit and streamed in real time. No need to have new pressure rules... just publish what the numbers are for cold tires at pit exit.
It's obviously a complex and detailed response to the problem. I don't know if it could have been done quicker, but I do know it's a complex project with numerous steps involved. It's an added plus financially that the existing components are getting modified rather than junked and replaced entirely.
Next I'd like to know what they are doing to improve how the car races...
1. There is too much drag, and this saps the horsepower that should be available to provide acceleration off corner exit to complete a pass.
2. There is too much downforce, primarily from the underbody and rear diffuser, and this causes excessive cornering speeds and minimal braking at most tracks.
Items 1. and 2. both contribute to processional races, with a particular problem being fast cars that get mired back in the pack and unable to work their way forward.
3. An improved steering rack needs to be developed, something that will not fail so often.
4. Managing heat buildup in the c0ckpit needs a better solution than chopping holes in the windshield and rear window.
5. I continue to advocate for a tire pressure sensor that's monitored electronically at pit exit and streamed in real time. No need to have new pressure rules... just publish what the numbers are for cold tires at pit exit.