Not a hate crime....

LewTheShoe

Team Owner
Joined
Apr 21, 2016
Messages
3,883
Points
493
this goes down alot differently if no Confederate flag plane flies over the track, etc.
I'm late to this "party" since I didn't learn of the FBI statement until late last night. I've waded through this entire thread and the one down in the Podium before commenting. I agree with the observation that the airplane stunt et cetera had a lot to do with it.

Just for the record, I stand with Bubba. He did nothing to create this incident, and he doesn't deserve the vile BS being spewed at him. I made the mistake of looking at his Twitter account. It's enough to shake my faith in the human species.

I also stand with NASCAR management. Their initial statement could have been less strident. 20/20 hindsight is a beautiful thing. But NASCAR's biggest risk was to leave open a possibility of being accused of sweeping something under a rug.

Also, mainstream media has acted appropriately IMO. They have reported the news and given context. And the FBI conclusions have been as widely reported as the original story. A sizable slice of the American population has been trained to blame just about everything on the media. Hogwash. Where are ya gonna get your news... Twitter and Facebook? Ha ha.
 
Last edited:

harkin

SoCal Race Fan
Joined
Feb 24, 2013
Messages
2,201
Points
343
Hoping my last word on this because so many talking past each other.

I was born in Los Angeles in the 50s and raised in SoCal.

I’m mixed race.

The amount of and type of racism I saw in the 60s is like a different planet than what is reality today. Most of the really sick stuff was gone by the early 70s but there’s less every year.

Im sure CA was ahead of the game and the Deep South was much slower but to claim things are still horrible or to buy into the ‘systemic racism is everywhere’ logic is asinine and ignores all the good work done to make things better.

I actually hear more racism today against white people (and for some strange reason white women) than I’ve heard about any race since the 60s.

Since I grew up in SoCal I saw/heard almost as much racism against Japanese people (leftover from WW2) as I did against black or Latinos. The only person I’ve ever seen refused service because of race in my entire life was one of my Asian friends at a hamburger stand.

I’m one of those people who believes race should not matter at all. I’ve been told by some people who should know better that this in fact is the wrong way to think and that RACE is ALWAYS the issue.

IMO the people who spout this sick approach to humanity are just as destructive as the racists they condemn and to the community they claim to support. They actually slow or sometimes even reverse progress by creating race problems where none exist.

The chief lesson from all this is to stay positive when so many are willing to believe, even encourage our worst instincts.

Black Lives Matter

All Black Lives Matter

Blue Lives Matter

All Lives Matter

Every human life is precious and must be treated as an individual

All people should be judged by the content of their character and not by the color of their skin.

Anyone who disagrees can blow it out their a$$.
 

ChexOrWrex

Ya gotta wanna
Joined
May 19, 2013
Messages
23,081
Points
883
The noose is not the issue. The issue is that it was conceivable. I trust the FBI investigation 100%. The context was that it was conceivable, the evidence proved that there was no intent. Create a better context, and this is handled differently. When context and intent are congruent, we will be on to something.
So the context, in your mind, is that it’s plausible that a real hate crime could have been committed?

Plausibilities and possibilities are not connected to reality.

I hope the fact that there was no hate crime helps you see that the sport is not as evil as you theorize that it could be.
 

Ford 222

Team Owner
Joined
Apr 25, 2016
Messages
1,387
Points
243
Hoping my last word on this because so many talking past each other.

I was born in Los Angeles in the 50s and raised in SoCal.

I’m mixed race.

The amount of and type of racism I saw in the 60s is like a different planet than what is reality today. Most of the really sick stuff was gone by the early 70s but there’s less every year.

Im sure CA was ahead of the game and the Deep South was much slower but to claim things are still horrible or to buy into the ‘systemic racism is everywhere’ logic is asinine and ignores all the good work done to make things better.

I actually hear more racism today against white people (and for some strange reason white women) than I’ve heard about any race since the 60s.

Since I grew up in SoCal I saw/heard almost as much racism against Japanese people (leftover from WW2) as I did against black or Latinos. The only person I’ve ever seen refused service because of race in my entire life was one of my Asian friends at a hamburger stand.

I’m one of those people who believes race should not matter at all. I’ve been told by some people who should know better that this in fact is the wrong way to think and that RACE is ALWAYS the issue.

IMO the people who spout this sick approach to humanity are just as destructive as the racists they condemn and to the community they claim to support. They actually slow or sometimes even reverse progress by creating race problems where none exist.

The chief lesson from all this is to stay positive when so many are willing to believe, even encourage our worst instincts.

Black Lives Matter

All Black Lives Matter

Blue Lives Matter

All Lives Matter

Every human life is precious and must be treated as an individual

All people should be judged by the content of their character and not by the color of their skin.

Anyone who disagrees can blow it out their a$$.
Thank you for your opinion....you probably have the most insight into race relations as they stand today than anyone else posting. May I ask your age? Nevermind the age question....just saw you were born in the 50's....answers my question. Thank you
 

Switchback

Team Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2014
Messages
519
Points
273
Hoping my last word on this because so many talking past each other.

I was born in Los Angeles in the 50s and raised in SoCal.

I’m mixed race.

The amount of and type of racism I saw in the 60s is like a different planet than what is reality today. Most of the really sick stuff was gone by the early 70s but there’s less every year.

Im sure CA was ahead of the game and the Deep South was much slower but to claim things are still horrible or to buy into the ‘systemic racism is everywhere’ logic is asinine and ignores all the good work done to make things better.

I actually hear more racism today against white people (and for some strange reason white women) than I’ve heard about any race since the 60s.

Since I grew up in SoCal I saw/heard almost as much racism against Japanese people (leftover from WW2) as I did against black or Latinos. The only person I’ve ever seen refused service because of race in my entire life was one of my Asian friends at a hamburger stand.

I’m one of those people who believes race should not matter at all. I’ve been told by some people who should know better that this in fact is the wrong way to think and that RACE is ALWAYS the issue.

IMO the people who spout this sick approach to humanity are just as destructive as the racists they condemn and to the community they claim to support. They actually slow or sometimes even reverse progress by creating race problems where none exist.

The chief lesson from all this is to stay positive when so many are willing to believe, even encourage our worst instincts.

Black Lives Matter

All Black Lives Matter

Blue Lives Matter

All Lives Matter

Every human life is precious and must be treated as an individual

All people should be judged by the content of their character and not by the color of their skin.

Anyone who disagrees can blow it out their a$$.
Thank you, well said.
 

harkin

SoCal Race Fan
Joined
Feb 24, 2013
Messages
2,201
Points
343
Thank you for your opinion....
Thank you for your kind words.

Im an old fud and happy to admit it.

Born in Hollywood 1957.

Race fan ever since my childhood friend took me to my first race at Ascot in Gardena.

First NASCAR Race was the Western 500 in the mid-60s at Riverside which is still my favorite track of all-time. Im not sure which year it was. Dan Gurney won so that narrows it down to about five different years.
 

aunty dive

Team Owner
Contributor
Joined
Mar 17, 2014
Messages
22,742
Points
883
Hoping my last word on this because so many talking past each other.

I was born in Los Angeles in the 50s and raised in SoCal.

I’m mixed race.

The amount of and type of racism I saw in the 60s is like a different planet than what is reality today. Most of the really sick stuff was gone by the early 70s but there’s less every year.

Im sure CA was ahead of the game and the Deep South was much slower but to claim things are still horrible or to buy into the ‘systemic racism is everywhere’ logic is asinine and ignores all the good work done to make things better.

I actually hear more racism today against white people (and for some strange reason white women) than I’ve heard about any race since the 60s.

Since I grew up in SoCal I saw/heard almost as much racism against Japanese people (leftover from WW2) as I did against black or Latinos. The only person I’ve ever seen refused service because of race in my entire life was one of my Asian friends at a hamburger stand.

I’m one of those people who believes race should not matter at all. I’ve been told by some people who should know better that this in fact is the wrong way to think and that RACE is ALWAYS the issue.

IMO the people who spout this sick approach to humanity are just as destructive as the racists they condemn and to the community they claim to support. They actually slow or sometimes even reverse progress by creating race problems where none exist.

The chief lesson from all this is to stay positive when so many are willing to believe, even encourage our worst instincts.

Black Lives Matter

All Black Lives Matter

Blue Lives Matter

All Lives Matter

Every human life is precious and must be treated as an individual

All people should be judged by the content of their character and not by the color of their skin.

Anyone who disagrees can blow it out their a$$.
You had me till the last line.
 

Ford 222

Team Owner
Joined
Apr 25, 2016
Messages
1,387
Points
243
You had me till the last line.
I think that's the perfect ending. Everyone has their opinion...yours is not going to be 100% agreed to by everyone and vice versa.

And that is why Rev's outlook, positive and noble as it seems, will never happen in our lifetimes, if ever. And that's just my opinion and anyone is free to disagree.....:)
 

RacerrecaR

Orange cone
Joined
Jan 3, 2015
Messages
1,956
Points
443
I'm late to this "party" since I didn't learn of the FBI statement until late last night. I've waded through this entire thread and the one down in the Podium before commenting. I agree with the observation that the airplane stunt et cetera had a lot to do with it.

Just for the record, I stand with Bubba. He did nothing to create this incident, and he doesn't deserve the vile BS being spewed at him. I made the mistake of looking at his Twitter account. It's enough to shake my faith in the human species.

I also stand with NASCAR management. Their initial statement could have been less strident. 20/20 hindsight is a beautiful thing. But NASCAR's biggest risk was to leave open a possibility of being accused of sweeping something under a rug.

Also, mainstream media has acted appropriately IMO. They have reported the news and given context. And the FBI conclusions have been as widely reported as the original story. A sizable slice of the American population has been trained to blame just about everything on the media. Hogwash. Where are ya gonna get your news... Twitter and Facebook? Ha ha.
Twitter and Facebook is more reliable than anything on tv...at least the social media people aren't paid
 

Switchback

Team Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2014
Messages
519
Points
273
Twitter and Facebook is more reliable than anything on tv...at least the social media people aren't paid
While I agree with you about what total garbage msm is, there is a distinct problem with places like Twitter as well. The algorithms will take note of what material you are looking up and liking and eventually it will only send you things that agree with what you already think. It leads to a lot of division between the right and left.
 

Big John Kordic

Tire changer
Joined
Oct 18, 2018
Messages
47
Points
28
people fly that flag here in Ohio for reasons beyond me
I currently live in PA, was born and raised in VA.

I’ve seen more stars and bars living in PA the past 7 years than I ever saw in VA my entire life. Someone explain that.
 

TexasRaceLady

Plank Owner
Contributor
Joined
Sep 18, 2001
Messages
31,104
Points
1,033
Location
Kingsland, TX
I currently live in PA, was born and raised in VA.

I’ve seen more stars and bars living in PA the past 7 years than I ever saw in VA my entire life. Someone explain that.
This is really not the forum for that discussion. There are threads in The Podium that would be more appropriate.
Just send a message to nascarwoman for access if you need it.
 

Turtle84

underglow
Joined
Aug 19, 2018
Messages
3,296
Points
343
Location
The Pacific
I really hope NASCAR wasn't operating in bad faith to send a message. The way the story has been told is completely unbelievable that they could be this oblivious to detail. On top of that, this was not how it was presented to us, everyone was imagining something separate, not something part of a garage pull down, that fact was conveniently left out until the investigation revealed it.

It still does not change what we saw on Monday, that was a human authentic overflow of support speaking out against any type of racial injustice within the NASCAR community and outside of it, that part is real. And nothing should take away from that message, whether spurred on by an overreactionary mistake or not. The goal being to create an all-inclusive environment, not a divided one.
 

RacerrecaR

Orange cone
Joined
Jan 3, 2015
Messages
1,956
Points
443
While I agree with you about what total garbage msm is, there is a distinct problem with places like Twitter as well. The algorithms will take note of what material you are looking up and liking and eventually it will only send you things that agree with what you already think. It leads to a lot of division between the right and left.
Excellent point
 

Mispeedway15

Team Owner
Joined
May 22, 2016
Messages
2,373
Points
343
Matt Weaver was making up his own story and said Steve Phillips said this and he said that and it was B.S. Nascar blocked him and the Autoweek media group he worked for. Needless to say the tweet disappeared, Matt came up with some B.S. that said he miss read what was said. This kind of totally unprofessional crap journalism not only is bad for the sport but anywhere else we don't need it either.
I had to block Matt Weaver awhile ago. HE IS TERRIBLE! You have to remember though people that these writers all are the creative types who studied with other artsy types in college. So they took a much more liberal route in their formative years than someone who went to work after HS, or someone like me who went to the College of Business.

That’s why you see such a liberal and overly dramatic stance from modern media
 

LewTheShoe

Team Owner
Joined
Apr 21, 2016
Messages
3,883
Points
493
I had to block Matt Weaver awhile ago. HE IS TERRIBLE! You have to remember though people that these writers all are the creative types who studied with other artsy types in college. So they took a much more liberal route in their formative years than someone who went to work after HS, or someone like me who went to the College of Business.

That’s why you see such a liberal and overly dramatic stance from modern media
Especially in oval track racing... a few years of turning left all the time, and before ya know it... an artsy lefty from Alabama.

What is it that Weaver writes that exposes him as a liberal? As a guy with degrees in business, I'm allowed to ask.
 

Michfan

Team Owner
Joined
Apr 21, 2016
Messages
21,026
Points
783
Location
God's country, MI
I had to block Matt Weaver awhile ago. HE IS TERRIBLE! You have to remember though people that these writers all are the creative types who studied with other artsy types in college. So they took a much more liberal route in their formative years than someone who went to work after HS, or someone like me who went to the College of Business.

That’s why you see such a liberal and overly dramatic stance from modern media
LOL
 

Snappy D

2017 Pick Em Champion 2018 Bold Predictor
Joined
Feb 13, 2017
Messages
8,629
Points
693
I have a business degree and own my own business but what I learned today excites me most...I’m NOT an Artsy Liberal. Lmao someone make that the official T-Shirt of RF.com
 

StandOnIt

Farm Truck
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
44,366
Points
883
Location
yoooklahoma
Yeah I don't know much about the liberal/conservative B.S. that people convince themselves that they are, Nascar blocked Weaver and the news outlet he worked for AutoweekUSA because he was misquoting Steve Phelps. The whole thing, tweets disappearing, retractions etc, was quickly smoothed over. He put his job in jeopardy, and discredited his employer AutoweekUSA. Young Weaver got a lesson about credibility.
 

Revman

KFB
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Messages
8,952
Points
793
Plausibilities and possibilities are not connected to reality.
Says who? Plausibility and possibility are the reality....and that is the problem. We have a ton of white people who say that it isn't them. I get it, but our history creates the plausibility....and that in and of itself creates the reality. This sport is a reflection of society--specifically, a society with rampant racism. This is the issue.

Some are trying to use this to prove that things are not as bad as suggested. Really, you are going to have to find a billion "innocent nooses" to offset 400 years of those with evil intent before we can even start that conversation. Social media sucks for the most part, but it has been eye opening for me to realize that there are vermin out there with a deep seeded hatred for my Black brothers and sisters. I would venture to say that my mere reference to "my Black brothers and sisters" ruffles a few feathers right here on this board. Don't give a ****. That is how I feel. I guess I am trolling racists to an extent. So be it.
 

Revman

KFB
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Messages
8,952
Points
793
I currently live in PA, was born and raised in VA.

I’ve seen more stars and bars living in PA the past 7 years than I ever saw in VA my entire life. Someone explain that.
Get rid of it, and we are better everywhere. Don't overthink it.
 

Revman

KFB
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Messages
8,952
Points
793
And that is why Rev's outlook, positive and noble as it seems, will never happen in our lifetimes, if ever. And that's just my opinion and anyone is free to disagree.....:)
....and I do disagree. Never, ever underestimate the power of the human potential. This is among one of the easiest things to achieve. Racists stop hating...and in the process.....stop racism. Pretty simple. Don't give into the narratives such as too old to change, how they were brought up, blah, blah, blah. Have the difficult conversations which are pretty simple really. Stop the hate. Don't tolerate hate.
 

Revman

KFB
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Messages
8,952
Points
793
Hoping my last word on this because so many talking past each other.

I was born in Los Angeles in the 50s and raised in SoCal.

I’m mixed race.

The amount of and type of racism I saw in the 60s is like a different planet than what is reality today. Most of the really sick stuff was gone by the early 70s but there’s less every year.

Im sure CA was ahead of the game and the Deep South was much slower but to claim things are still horrible or to buy into the ‘systemic racism is everywhere’ logic is asinine and ignores all the good work done to make things better.

I actually hear more racism today against white people (and for some strange reason white women) than I’ve heard about any race since the 60s.

Since I grew up in SoCal I saw/heard almost as much racism against Japanese people (leftover from WW2) as I did against black or Latinos. The only person I’ve ever seen refused service because of race in my entire life was one of my Asian friends at a hamburger stand.

I’m one of those people who believes race should not matter at all. I’ve been told by some people who should know better that this in fact is the wrong way to think and that RACE is ALWAYS the issue.

IMO the people who spout this sick approach to humanity are just as destructive as the racists they condemn and to the community they claim to support. They actually slow or sometimes even reverse progress by creating race problems where none exist.

The chief lesson from all this is to stay positive when so many are willing to believe, even encourage our worst instincts.

Black Lives Matter

All Black Lives Matter

Blue Lives Matter

All Lives Matter

Every human life is precious and must be treated as an individual

All people should be judged by the content of their character and not by the color of their skin.

Anyone who disagrees can blow it out their a$$.
The last line is the last thing we need. When blown out of one's ass, we have racism. Let's leave asses out of it, and learn from your message. I have always been interested in MLK's most famous words about character....I have no problem being judged by the content of my character AND the color of my skin. It is a part of who I am, and I won't ever apologize for that. Let's get to the place where the color of one's skin does not prohibit an exploration of one's character. This is the issue....still.
 

ChexOrWrex

Ya gotta wanna
Joined
May 19, 2013
Messages
23,081
Points
883
Says who? Plausibility and possibility are the reality....and that is the problem. We have a ton of white people who say that it isn't them. I get it, but our history creates the plausibility....and that in and of itself creates the reality. This sport is a reflection of society--specifically, a society with rampant racism. This is the issue. Some are trying to use this to prove that things are not as bad as suggested. Really, you are going to have to find a billion "innocent nooses" to offset 400 years of those with evil intent before we can even start that conversation. Social media sucks for the most part, but it has been eye opening for me to realize that there are vermin out there with a deep seeded hatred for my Black brothers and sisters. I would venture to say that my mere reference to "my Black brothers and sisters" ruffles a few feathers right here on this board. Don't give a ****. That is how I feel. I guess I am trolling racists to an extent. So be it.
All I can take from this in relation to this thread is that you believe that the possibility of a hate crime occuring in the sport today exceeds the actual supply.
 

Revman

KFB
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Messages
8,952
Points
793
Thank you for your opinion....you probably have the most insight into race relations as they stand today than anyone else posting. May I ask your age? Nevermind the age question....just saw you were born in the 50's....answers my question. Thank you
I am not sure that anyone has more insight than anyone else. We are all a part of this. The victims of racism or those aware of the victimization have an intimate understanding of its impact. The perpetrators or those aware of perpetrators need to get their **** in order, and demand that it stops. I am so done with Bubba having to stand alone with this. This is every-freaking-body. My Black brothers and sisters have been sending the message for many, many years. It is time for the white privileged to get their **** together, be okay with who you are, and get about the business of making things better in unison with those who have been victimized. This is not one man's fight whether we are talking about Kaepernick, Bubba, or MLK.
 
Top Bottom