Not a hate crime....

harkin

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If anyone was criticized for expressing that they would calmly wait for the results of the investigation before reacting, yes. For those who termed it a deliberate hoax (already happening again above), or played the "What about crime in Chicago?" game, no, they aren't owed anything but scorn.
I said both that they needed to wait and see what they find out plus I added the part about the Father’s Day killing spree in Chicago.

The reason why I mentioned Chicago’s murders was strictly to compare the amount of attention by the media on each subject. If you think this was some sort of ‘game’ you are talkin out your backside.

It turned out that the media was lathering incoherently over a mistake at Talladega while ignoring the fact that over a hundred people were shot and 14 killed (some of them kids) in one city last weekend.
Scorn all you want. My point was valid then and even more valid this morning.
 

harkin

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huge embarrassment..oh the drama. The news machine has already left the building..on to the next one.
That’s the main rub here.

The media just spent two days telling America how hopelessly racist NASCAR and their fans are. They got the message out and that’s what counts.

They’ll spend almost no time at all correcting the mistake or worse (as some in here insist on doing), saying that you know, the noose doesn’t really matter, there’s systemic racism everywhere so the noose AKSHULLY helps make us aware of it.
 

DIDIT

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This is flat out wrong wrong. To claim racism exists only psychologically in the individual is incredibly incredibly out of touch. Saying that we moved past racism, and that it only exists in the minds of minorities is a racist thing to say. Racism isn't political. It's social and a human rights deal. This is a very uninformed, cultural biased take, and I hope you can better learn about this stuff. Terrible.

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You are correct that racism exists. It exists in the USA and around the world and all classes of people are subjected to it, not just one or two specific classes.
Because we live in a world that made it conceivable. That is the point. We have to make this inconceivable. We aren't there, but we need to get there now.
Hate to burst your bubble, but the world has always and will always be like that. Racism and hate will never be totally removed from society. Some of these people might have mental disorders that cause them to feel and react the way the do.
 

StandOnIt

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all there was here in middle America on the local new was a pic of Wallace, and they stated the FBI's investigation revealed it wasn't a hate deal but a noose fashioned in a garage pull and it wasn't a terrorist threat. A split second later they had a live vid of Carolina tearing down a confederate statue..moving on.
 

Joker

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You are correct that racism exists. It exists in the USA and around the world and all classes of people are subjected to it, not just one or two specific classes.

Hate to burst your bubble, but the world has always and will always be like that. Racism and hate will never be totally removed from society.
I'll bet my left nut none of them even know that the Arab states traded more African slaves than Europe.
 

harkin

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The point is to draw attention to what is ****** up about society. Wow.
I hope everyone appreciates the irony that in this incident what was ****** up was way too many people thinking society was the problem when instead it was their own ability to believe the worst, run with it before all the evidence was collected and declare anyone who disagreed out-of-touch.

The most discouraging aspect of this is many of those same people seem completely unable (or unwilling) to own it and admit maybe things aren’t as bad as they think.
 

Big John Kordic

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While racism is still a problem here, no argument from me on that issue, noosegate has obviously opened up a Pandora’s box on what is/could be considered a racist statement and, how to initially address it.

nascar handled it poorly, haphazardly, in an attempt to ensure no negative light would/could be shown on them. Their meaning was noble, the process bungled.

in light of what’s come about here I have a couple questions -

did Menard’s team have any black crewmembers?

I don’t know specifics, So I’m grasping here, but based on what I’ve seen on tv a third of cup teams have black crewmembers. Crewmen spend the vast majority of their time in the garage, were they practicing willful blindness prior to this past weekend? Not comfortable bringing it up out of fear? Or simply seeing the loops for what they are, an aid to ensure a torsion sprung overhead metal bay door can be pulled down easily after thousands of sweaty greasy paws have been all over it?

imo the elephant in the room here is the sensationalist media....quick to pass judgment and “report” w/o facts. That and any doofus with a social media account.

Penelope was wrong....it’s not music, it’s social media.
 

ChexOrWrex

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Noose or no noose is not the point.
Except this is exactly the point. To ignore context of the situation is to ignore reality regardless of evidence. Context and evidence are paramount in these investigations and in this particular case no evil motive was found. To dig your heels in against the findings of the FBI’s investigation undermines the process. Why even have an investigation if the results will be ignored if it doesn’t match the accuser’s story?
 

Michfan

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And I find your ignorance towards racism in this country repulsive. I 100% back Rev and only hope that you can find a bit more compassion and sensitivity.

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You should see what he says in the podium
 

StandOnIt

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You are correct that racism exists. It exists in the USA and around the world and all classes of people are subjected to it, not just one or two specific classes.

Hate to burst your bubble, but the world has always and will always be like that. Racism and hate will never be totally removed from society. Some of these people might have mental disorders that cause them to feel and react the way the do.
might have mental disorders? Some of them do and that is why IMO a very large sane organization would call in the authorities including the FBI to have it checked out to see if it was valid.
 

Revman

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Except this is exactly the point. To ignore context of the situation is to ignore reality regardless of evidence. Context and evidence are paramount in these investigations and in this particular case no evil motive was found. To dig your heels in against the findings of the FBI’s investigation undermines the process. Why even have an investigation if the results will be ignored if it doesn’t match the accuser’s story?
The noose is not the issue. The issue is that it was conceivable. I trust the FBI investigation 100%. The context was that it was conceivable, the evidence proved that there was no intent. Create a better context, and this is handled differently. When context and intent are congruent, we will be on to something.
 

Joker

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The noose is not the issue. The issue is that it was conceivable. I trust the FBI investigation 100%. The context was that it was conceivable, the evidence proved that there was no intent. Create a better context, and this is handled differently. When context and intent are congruent, we will be on to something.
You've been going around in circles bro.

Look, I think we'd all like to live in a racism-free world. But it's just not going to happen. As I've said before, it's a lot better than the 1960s, which were a lot better than the 1860s. But completely and utterly eradicating racism is just not going to happen.
 

Revman

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This is it. What's fascinating is I took a course in cross cultural counseling, and one of our first discussion prompts was a transcript of a (fictional) therapy session between Dr. D, and Gabriella, a Brazilian woman living in America.

The session opens up with her processing her anxiety associated with living with her white boyfriend, and she reveals she has a panic attack. The Dr. Then proceeded to discuss her coping skills and her anxiety with her, but she escalated and said she doesn't feel supported..she began to talk about family cultural pressure before telling Dr. D that he doesn't get it. Dr. D asks what it is he doesn't get, and that perhaps there's more to this than just her panic. Gabriella then states..she doesn't feel supported and that he is taking sides. He reflects this and validated this. Then, she says." do you understand what it's like being a Brazilian woman?".

Dr. D says, "of course I understand. I've worked with many Brazilian clients and am mindful of the struggles, which we have discussed before. But we all have more in common than we do differences. We are all human beings. I get that your frustrated, but let's talk about those panic attacks".

Gabriella: *silence*


The discussion prompt was then to consider if we agree with the way Dr. D handled her frustrations regarding being "missunderstood". So what's the issue here?

The issue is that Dr. D has no right to tell Gabriella that he "understands" he doesn't understand. How could he? He is a white male psychologist. Not a Brazilian woman. All this did, despite being somewhat factual, is reinforce her frustrations with being missunderstood, and invalidated her.

Same applies to Bubba..none of us can speak to his motivation, or his handling of the situation after the announcement because we don't know what it's like to be him. We can all talk about how WE would have handled it. And how WE think it should have been handled. And WE may be right. But that's us. Not Bubba. That's the false consensus effect. The bill of assertive rights states that we have a right to be the first and final judge of our own behavior.

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Well said. Like usual.
 

Revman

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You've been going around in circles bro.

Look, I think we'd all like to live in a racism-free world. But it's just not going to happen. As I've said before, it's a lot better than the 1960s, which were a lot better than the 1860s. But completely and utterly eradicating racism is just not going to happen.
No, not at all, but whatevs.

We will. We have to. With regard to your assertion that things are better from 1860 to 1960 to now....Again, context. Should our Black brothers and sisters be satisfied with 50% of the white world, 60%, 75%....How would you quantify "better?" Anything less that 100% is unsatisfactory, and cannot be tolerated. An impossible goal? I believe in the human potential....even when what is in front of me is disgusting.
 

Revman

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wait till they find out Col. Sanders had slaves
I am convinced that there will be a day when you will be ashamed of this post. I am convinced of this. What I hope is that this world will have reached a state of equilibrium by this point where you can be forgiven. That time is not now. As Joey Logano perfectly said, "Check your heart man."
 

kyle busch 18

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I dont see what the big fuss is about. We still have all the feel good stuff from monday that got media attention and shows we are not just a redneck trashy sport. Lots of new eyes on nascar in a positive light. And now the best thing that could of happened happened. There was no hate crime at all from anyone. The only crime was an over reaction. Big whoop i still think this is all a positive in the grand scheme
 

racefan41

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Heard a clip of BW on the view saying the FBI said it was a noose and apparently they are still investigating the incident. Do you think we might get a statement from Nascar about this?
 

StandOnIt

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Heard a clip of BW on the view saying the FBI said it was a noose and apparently they are still investigating the incident. Do you think we might get a statement from Nascar about this?
this was over 19 hours ago...read the first line

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Revman

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Heard a clip of BW on the view saying the FBI said it was a noose and apparently they are still investigating the incident. Do you think we might get a statement from Nascar about this?
NASCAR said that they are still investigating....Maybe that is what you heard him say?
 

Revman

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this goes down alot differently if no Confederate flag plane flies over the track, etc.
I think this is part of the context I continually refer to...the other part is 400 years or racism and oppression that is in the process of no longer being ignored. Get rid of the flags and the plane--that is easy in comparison to the latter....but we are working on it.
 

StandOnIt

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So then why is he saying it's still being investigated? Also "fashioned like a noose" isn't a noose and I don't see quotes around those words coming from the fbi
BW on the view is your source? and who the hell is BW? are they spokemen for the FBI, the view? oh brother.
 
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