OLD POINT SYSTEM VS NEW SYSTEM/ PLAYOFFS

Thegeneral23

Thegeneral23

Team Owner
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
2,045
Points
343
Why do people complain all the time about the new point system? and then say if they bring the old point system back NASCAR will be great again and it will bring back all the fans.. was it really that much better? I feel like if you like the sport you like the sport no matter what.
 
I like the new system overall, but I don't like how fringe racers get the automatic advance to the playoffs. No way should Austin Dillon beat out better and more consistent drivers based almost solely on one fluky win.
 
Invisible Guest said:
I like the new system overall, but I don't like how fringe racers get the automatic advance to the playoffs. No way should Austin Dillon beat out better and more consistent drivers based almost solely on one fluky win.
Click to expand...
So how do you fix that ?
 
Good question, some people don't like change period, some want the simpler and "more fair" way of crowning a champion. There isn't a perfect points system for everybody. This one is so complicated for me to follow I have a wait and see attitude. With a simple point system, you pretty much know who is going to win the championship sometimes weeks before the end of the season, but sometimes not. They think If it is a runaway, some fans quit watching because their driver isn't going to win. The one's in charge don't like that so they think they need to find a way to keep the fans watching until the end. Most of us on this board are going to watch until the end no matter what anyway, and we have no idea how a casual fan thinks, so manipulating the points system is stupid thinking for most full time fans.​
 
Invisible Guest said:
Make the win worth a lot of bonus points instead of an automatic advance. I dunno .. maybe 50 bonus points for a race victory, or something like that. Right now there is too much weight given to a race win.
Click to expand...
I do like that too.. like when buescher got in lol... so I do feel u
 
StandOnIt said:
Good question, some people don't like change period, some want the simpler and "more fair" way of crowning a champion. There isn't a perfect points system for everybody. This one is so complicated for me to follow I have a wait and see attitude. With a simple point system, you pretty much know who is going to win the championship sometimes weeks before the end of the season, but sometimes not. They think If it is a runaway, some fans quit watching because their driver isn't going to win. The one's in charge don't like that so they think they need to find a way to keep the fans watching until the end. Most of us on this board are going to watch until the end no matter what anyway, and we have no idea how a casual fan thinks, so manipulating the points system is stupid thinking for most full time fans.​
Click to expand...
Only thing I don't like is the WIN automatic lock in my playoffs
 
Thegeneral23 said:
Only thing I don't like is the WIN automatic lock in my playoffs
Click to expand...

That's where I'm at. Dillon is 150 points behind guys like Kenseth and Bowyer, and 100 plus points behind Logano. One of those three guys is going to be out because Austin Dillon managed to pull off a fuel milage victory, while under performing most of the season. I like how the stage racing deal has worked out. Guys are racing hard to get those points, and there's some strategy going on as well.
 
Invisible Guest said:
That's where I'm at. Dillon is 150 points behind guys like Kenseth and Bowyer, and 100 plus points behind Logano. One of those three guys is going to be out because Austin Dillon managed to pull off a fuel milage victory, while under performing most of the season. I like how the stage racing deal has worked out. Guys are racing hard to get those points, and there's some strategy going on as well.
Click to expand...
the same thing could happen with the old system, Nascar's penalties, crashes, and fuel mileage victories can skew the points over the year. Nothing as drastic as it is now, or so very far away from the end of the season. Lots of battles back then, single points away from 14th or 15th. Now those are still there but mostly ignored. Focus focus focus on the playoff cars.
 
Invisible Guest said:
That's where I'm at. Dillon is 150 points behind guys like Kenseth and Bowyer, and 100 plus points behind Logano. One of those three guys is going to be out because Austin Dillon managed to pull off a fuel milage victory, while under performing most of the season. I like how the stage racing deal has worked out. Guys are racing hard to get those points, and there's some strategy going on as well.
Click to expand...
Yea I hate that to man.. it sucks because he hasn't did anything since then smh
 
Thegeneral23 said:
Why do people complain all the time about the new point system? and then say if they bring the old point system back NASCAR will be great again and it will bring back all the fans.. was it really that much better? I feel like if you like the sport you like the sport no matter what.
Click to expand...

I have heard plenty of complaints about the new point system but I don't recall reading that people think the old point system would bring back fans. From a personal standpoint I don't pay attention to the points and don't even acknowledge a season ending champ so it doesn't matter to me what they do.

I don't think it is worth doing anything in order to get previous fans back and the better play is designing the series around what younger people will support. I strongly suspect that those that have exited Nascar have moved on and there isn't really anything that could be done to get them back and retain them. Most of Nascar's current fans are old and I suspect the ones that left are also in that category so it doesn't make good business sense to cater to an audience like that. Why cater to an audience that is literally dying off?

Nascar was enjoyable for me in the 80's and 90's and I make no apologies for it just as someone should not have to make apologies for liking it today.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
I have heard plenty of complaints about the new point system but I don't recall reading that people think the old point system would bring back fans. From a personal standpoint I don't pay attention to the points and don't even acknowledge a season ending champ so it doesn't matter to me what they do.

I don't think it is worth doing anything in order to get previous fans back and the better play is designing the series around what younger people will support. I strongly suspect that those that have exited Nascar have moved on and there isn't really anything that could be done to get them back and retain them. Most of Nascar's current fans are old and I suspect the ones that left are also in that category so it doesn't make good business sense to cater to an audience like that. Why cater to an audience that is literally dying off?

Nascar was enjoyable for me in the 80's and 90's and I make no apologies for it just as someone should not have to make apologies for liking it today.
Click to expand...
Good points! So can I ask you a question? So why do you think NASCAR has died off some? And what can make it better ?
 
Thegeneral23 said:
Why do people complain all the time about the new point system? and then say if they bring the old point system back NASCAR will be great again and it will bring back all the fans.. was it really that much better? I feel like if you like the sport you like the sport no matter what.
Click to expand...

its a discussion board. people love to complain :p
 
Thegeneral23 said:
Good points! So can I ask you a question? So why do you think NASCAR has died off some? And what can make it better ?
Click to expand...
we have a lot of younger fans here in addition to older ones, You are a younger fan, lets hear your reason and other younger fans reasons why you are a fan.
 
Good stuff here, I miss the old Winston Cup points system because 1.) It was easy to follow 2.) Championship battles happened organically and lasted over the course of a full season. I had no problem if the Champ was crowned by Phoenix or Rockingham because there alot of times other battles going on in the points like a driver trying to finish top 10 or top 5. I feel like if a guy finished top 10 for the year or top 5 it was more prestigious and a bit more memorable than what happens now. But willing to see how these stage points and playoff points impact the year, you figure with what Truex has banked with the stage points he should be a shoe in for Miami. He really has been the best driver with the best car with the best team all year. Hope he doesnt have the same fate as 2004 Jeff Gordon ( still hurts my heart), 2007 Jeff Gordon ( Yup. still hurts), 2011 Carl Edwards, 2014 Jeff Gordon ( Still heartbroken. His last best chance at the Championship. Damn.) and 2015 Kevin Harvick who were the best teams/drivers all year but lost out on the lottery playoff system.
 
Last edited:
Thegeneral23 said:
Good points! So can I ask you a question? So why do you think NASCAR has died off some? And what can make it better ?
Click to expand...

I think a lot of the newer fans walked away because Jeff Gordon wasn't winning 8-9 races a year and stopped winning championships. It is a similar situation with Dale Jr as at one point it looked like he may have been capable of 50 wins and some champs but when that failed to materialize they left as well. A lot of the older fans felt slighted by Nascar as they felt the were being taken for granted and in some cases not wanted or valued. They got mad and left.

I can't answer what would make Nascar better because what would make it better for me would make it worse for others and many of the things I would like to see simply are not feasible. IMO, regardless of what Nascar does it still will drop in terms of interest and number of fans as for whatever reasons traditional American motorsports have gone out of style so to speak. I think Nascar is heading for a time when most races will have between 1.2 and 1.7 million viewers with exceptions made for races of distinction. I see 26-28 races on the schedule and most races attracting 25 to 35 thousand fans.

Make no mistake though as Nascar is not dying but instead is in the difficult period of reshaping itself for the future even though the people in charge don't realize it.
 
StandOnIt said:
we have a lot of younger fans here in addition to older ones, You are a younger fan, lets hear your reason and other younger fans reasons why you are a fan.
Click to expand...

LOL, if you banished all the members over 30 you might as well bring in the Maytag repairman as it would be awfully lonely. Advertisers want people between 18-34.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
I think a lot of the newer fans walked away because Jeff Gordon wasn't winning 8-9 races a year and stopped winning championships. It is a similar situation with Dale Jr as at one point it looked like he may have been capable of 50 wins and some champs but when that failed to materialize they left as well. A lot of the older fans felt slighted by Nascar as they felt the were being taken for granted and in some cases not wanted or valued. They got mad and left.

I can't answer what would make Nascar better because what would make it better for me would make it worse for others and many of the things I would like to see simply are not feasible. IMO, regardless of what Nascar does it still will drop in terms of interest and number of fans as for whatever reasons traditional American motorsports have gone out of style so to speak. I think Nascar is heading for a time when most races will have between 1.2 and 1.7 million viewers with exceptions made for races of distinction. I see 26-28 races on the schedule and most races attracting 25 to 35 thousand fans.

Make no mistake though as Nascar is not dying but instead is in the difficult period of reshaping itself for the future even though the people in charge don't realize it.
Click to expand...
Hey I resent that ha ha. I almost walked away after 2007 after he got screwed but stuck with it. 2014 hurt real bad it was awesome seeing him upfront again and winning races, so that year hurt the worst. I been a JG fan since 1993 but gosh I have early childhood memories from the late 80s watching races with my dad so I dont think I will totally walk away ever I love all kinds of racing, I just started getting into World Of Outlaws where I'll watch if its on. But NASCAR is now DVR. Indy Car, and F1 are appointment TV for me. But to get back to your point, something is happening to NASCAR a reshaping yes I think I could agree with that. Smaller Attendance, Smaller Track seats, Smaller Purses and Smaller salaries with smaller sponsorships look to be the way the sport is heading.
 
The only ones who should be concerned about the points system is the teams. NASCAR has had a number of point systems and I've always had to check a published list of the leaders. For entertainment purposes I've gotten a kick out of members posting the leader board under different points systems.
 
StandOnIt said:
we have a lot of younger fans here in addition to older ones, You are a younger fan, lets hear your reason and other younger fans reasons why you are a fan.
Click to expand...
Ok where do I start lol.. well I been watching for about two years now..i have always liked cars though but to be honest I use to think NASCAR was the dumbest thing ever and I'm just being honest ..I just didn't understand why people watched cars go in a circle .. I thought everybody with a driver license could be a NASCAR driver lol..But boy was I wrong lol.. it all started one day at work.. I wanted a new light weight jacket and thought about a NASCAR jacket lol i don't know why but I said that would be cool to get one haha.. so I looked them up and researched some drivers and stats and stuff like that.. Thej I realized I could just go to a race shop here in Charlotte and buy a jacket! Thought that was cool also, then I also realized almost all shops is right by my house or not far away!! So I said since I like cars and all the shops are here let me check NASCAR out and see what's it all about.. I wanted to give it a chance and stop being negative about it...so I did some research and this was right before the Daytona 500 .. so I watched the race and was hooked!!!!! The speed these cars go and how close to are to each other was just crazy to me lol... so right after that I went back to joe Gibbs shop where I got my Kyle Busch jacket at lol and talked to a few people there ..I asked what race I should go to first that's close to Charlotte because I couldn't wait until May for the coc 600, they told me martinsville.. booked it the same day!! Went to martinsville and couldn't believe what I been missing all my life.. the sounds the smell the speed the history of the sport I just love it now.. I appreciate the sport so much now.. I love the merchandise too it's cool to me.. I love the throwback shirts.. I use to go to NBA games NFL games and the tickets for those are expensive not so much NASCAR so the stuff people complain about it's crazy to me.. I love being able to go see the drivers at the shops on Tuesdays and chop it up with people that work there and also buy something when I'm there.. I'm a regular at joe Gibbs now.. I have spent so much money there it's crazy haha
 
Snappy D said:
Hey I resent that ha ha. I almost walked away after 2007 after he got screwed but stuck with it. 2014 hurt real bad it was awesome seeing him upfront again and winning races, so that year hurt the worst. I been a JG fan since 1993 but gosh I have early childhood memories from the late 80s watching races with my dad so I dont think I will totally walk away ever I love all kinds of racing, I just started getting into World Of Outlaws where I'll watch if its on. But NASCAR is now DVR. Indy Car, and F1 are appointment TV for me. But to get back to your point, something is happening to NASCAR a reshaping yes I think I could agree with that. Smaller Attendance, Smaller Track seats, Smaller Purses and Smaller salaries with smaller sponsorships look to be the way the sport is heading.
Click to expand...

I sure didn't mean any offense to you or any of the loyal Jeff and Dale Jr fans that have followed through thick and thin.
 
Thegeneral23 said:
Ok where do I start lol.. well I been watching for about two years now..i have always liked cars though but to be honest I use to think NASCAR was the dumbest thing ever and I'm just being honest ..I just didn't understand why people watched cars go in a circle .. I thought everybody with a driver license could be a NASCAR driver lol..But boy was I wrong lol.. it all started one day at work.. I wanted a new light weight jacket and thought about a NASCAR jacket lol i don't know why but I said that would be cool to get one haha.. so I looked them up and researched some drivers and stats and stuff like that.. Thej I realized I could just go to a race shop here in Charlotte and buy a jacket! Thought that was cool also, then I also realized almost all shops is right by my house or not far away!! So I said since I like cars and all the shops are here let me check NASCAR out and see what's it all about.. I wanted to give it a chance and stop being negative about it...so I did some research and this was right before the Daytona 500 .. so I watched the race and was hooked!!!!! The speed these cars go and how close to are to each other was just crazy to me lol... so right after that I went back to joe Gibbs shop where I got my Kyle Busch jacket at lol and talked to a few people there ..I asked what race I should go to first that's close to Charlotte because I couldn't wait until May for the coc 600, they told me martinsville.. booked it the same day!! Went to martinsville and couldn't believe what I been missing all my life.. the sounds the smell the speed the history of the sport I just love it now.. I appreciate the sport so much now.. I love the merchandise too it's cool to me.. I love the throwback shirts.. I use to go to NBA games NFL games and the tickets for those are expensive not so much NASCAR so the stuff people complain about it's crazy to me.. I love being able to go see the drivers at the shops on Tuesdays and chop it up with people that work there and also buy something when I'm there.. I'm a regular at joe Gibbs now.. I have spent so much money there it's crazy haha
Click to expand...

Thanks for including your story as it was fun to read and I could feel your excitement. Have you been able to get any of your friends or family into Nascar? If they were not interested what reasons did they give?
 
Thegeneral23 said:
Ok where do I start lol.. well I been watching for about two years now..i have always liked cars though but to be honest I use to think NASCAR was the dumbest thing ever and I'm just being honest ..I just didn't understand why people watched cars go in a circle .. I thought everybody with a driver license could be a NASCAR driver lol..But boy was I wrong lol.. it all started one day at work.. I wanted a new light weight jacket and thought about a NASCAR jacket lol i don't know why but I said that would be cool to get one haha.. so I looked them up and researched some drivers and stats and stuff like that.. Thej I realized I could just go to a race shop here in Charlotte and buy a jacket! Thought that was cool also, then I also realized almost all shops is right by my house or not far away!! So I said since I like cars and all the shops are here let me check NASCAR out and see what's it all about.. I wanted to give it a chance and stop being negative about it...so I did some research and this was right before the Daytona 500 .. so I watched the race and was hooked!!!!! The speed these cars go and how close to are to each other was just crazy to me lol... so right after that I went back to joe Gibbs shop where I got my Kyle Busch jacket at lol and talked to a few people there ..I asked what race I should go to first that's close to Charlotte because I couldn't wait until May for the coc 600, they told me martinsville.. booked it the same day!! Went to martinsville and couldn't believe what I been missing all my life.. the sounds the smell the speed the history of the sport I just love it now.. I appreciate the sport so much now.. I love the merchandise too it's cool to me.. I love the throwback shirts.. I use to go to NBA games NFL games and the tickets for those are expensive not so much NASCAR so the stuff people complain about it's crazy to me.. I love being able to go see the drivers at the shops on Tuesdays and chop it up with people that work there and also buy something when I'm there.. I'm a regular at joe Gibbs now.. I have spent so much money there it's crazy haha
Click to expand...

that's bad ass right there. :punkrocke
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
Thanks for including your story as it was fun to read and I could feel your excitement. Have you been able to get any of your friends or family into Nascar? If they were not interested what reasons did they give?
Click to expand...
My girl watches with me from time to time.. but we been to like 7 races already and she went to every one but Daytona with me :(.. but I have tried they just won't give it a chance.. they ask me about it but just won't go.. but I'm thinking bout taking them to Bristol !! I know they would love that.. so I'm working on it.. ohh my daughter likes it.. she talks about it and have NASCAR clothing.. I have a funny story I took her to meet Dale JR and when he came out she said Kyle Busch and he said ain't no Kyle Busch here pretty lady haha.. I was so embarrassed
 
I have never said that...and I have been quite critical. And vocal.


Do away with the points system completely and lets go racing.


THE CAR AND DRIVER THAT FINISHES FIRST IS THE WINNER!

THE DRIVER THAT WINS THE MOST RACES IS THE CHAMPION!


In case of a tie, the driver with the most 2nd place finishes - wins. Etc., etc...


But most importantly -- bring back the old Martinsville Hotdog!!!


And back off on the inspections,
Making the teams drive identical cars is like making all the American Idol contestants sing the same song - boring.
 
Thegeneral23 said:
My girl watches with me from time to time.. but we been to like 7 races already and she went to every one but Daytona with me :(.. but I have tried they just won't give it a chance.. they ask me about it but just won't go.. but I'm thinking bout taking them to Bristol !! I know they would love that.. so I'm working on it.. ohh my daughter likes it.. she talks about it and have NASCAR clothing.. I have a funny story I took her to meet Dale JR and when he came out she said Kyle Busch and he said ain't no Kyle Busch here pretty lady haha.. I was so embarrassed
Click to expand...
Hopefully the night race at Bristol isn't a rainout this year.
 
Can't go back to the old style now. The fan base has changed... a good part of the viewers right now we're probably brought in when NASCAR was growing into the 2000s and then they were shown the chase... like the drama or not if you remove what they do right now, it won't be pretty...

The toothpaste is already out of the bottle
 
Thegeneral23 said:
My girl watches with me from time to time.. but we been to like 7 races already and she went to every one but Daytona with me :(.. but I have tried they just won't give it a chance.. they ask me about it but just won't go.. but I'm thinking bout taking them to Bristol !! I know they would love that.. so I'm working on it.. ohh my daughter likes it.. she talks about it and have NASCAR clothing.. I have a funny story I took her to meet Dale JR and when he came out she said Kyle Busch and he said ain't no Kyle Busch here pretty lady haha.. I was so embarrassed
Click to expand...

That is a funny story! I think the best way to get someone hooked is to take them to the track. I am impressed by how many races you have been to already and I know there will be many more.
 
I think the stage points/playoff points were a huge step in the right direction. It has made the regular season a lot more meaningful than it's been the last three years. I'm also glad they've allowed the bonus points to carry over to rounds 2 and 3 of the playoffs. Those two things have taken a lot of the randomness out of determining a champion.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom