Out of the way! NASCAR contenders want traffic to pull aside

Blaze

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Any points system in auto racing does that. Once again this ain't stick and ball this is auto racing :idunno:
Well if you want to get technical…with what you bolded anyway. Those other series don’t have a postseason the way NASCAR does.. so I mean….no? Because in the others when everyone is still racing it’s not called playoffs, it’s called the season. Now I know you’ll have some snarky remark, so save it. You technically are wrong if we go by what you bolded.
 

Formerjackman

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Personally this year using regular points, Larson and Hamlin already have it sowed up to be a title race between the two. So if I was a Blaney or an Elliott, or Busch fan for example, I have no hopes of them winning a cup title. So yeah IMO sometimes this playoff system has it's good points
Well the correct answer to that is that nobody else DESERVES to have a shot at the title. Just because it makes a bigger segment of the fanbase happy doesn't make it right.
 

StandOnIt

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Well the correct answer to that is that nobody else DESERVES to have a shot at the title. Just because it makes a bigger segment of the fanbase happy doesn't make it right.
seems to make it right in Nascar's and the mass entertainment media. Smart/wise people know when to pick their battles. Ain't no way that is going to change unless they want it too. IMO it seems kind of dumb to continue to beat your head against a brick wall, but whatever.
 

Blaze

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Me too, but it ain't happening
Yeah, I mean it’s not sadly. Be nice, cause sometimes we could still be getting a great down to the wire battle, like we would Denny and Larson right now. It makes them races where the last one still hasn’t crowned a champ special. But it is what it is, I’ll say how much I hate it still haha.
 

StandOnIt

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Yeah, I mean it’s not sadly. Be nice, cause sometimes we could still be getting a great down to the wire battle, like we would Denny and Larson right now. It makes them races where the last one still hasn’t crowned a champ special. But it is what it is, I’ll say how much I hate it still haha.
It has the possibility of changing when the TV contracts expire..maybe?
 

Charlie Spencer

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It has the possibility of changing when the TV contracts expire..maybe?
Yeah, I was remembering nostalgically that the original motivation for the playoffs was to retain TV viewing once the NFL season started, and to not lose eyeballs to the football games. I don't know if they have accomplished that purpose, or if there's any way to measure the playoff-watching numbers against what viewership without playoffs.
 

StandOnIt

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Yeah, I was remembering nostalgically that the original motivation for the playoffs was to retain TV viewing once the NFL season started, and to not lose eyeballs to the football games. I don't know if they have accomplished that purpose, or if there's any way to measure the playoff-watching numbers against what viewership without playoffs.
I think it has been too long for that. Seems like they have had playoffs in some form or other forever
 

Jorge De Guzman

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It has the possibility of changing when the TV contracts expire..maybe?
I’d be so happy, like tears of joy happy. Sadly I don’t think it’s going to happen, someone earlier said it’s been 20 years almost since the full season points system went away. Sure has gone by fast. If anything I’d expect them to let more in, the NFL just opened their post season tournament to more teams. Could NASCAR do the same?
 

pjmolo

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Sorry you wasted your time with rude ass, ignorant people like that. If they are friends of yours, I’d find new friends. Racing isn’t like other sports And it’s not hard to comprehend why unless one chooses to be intentionally ignorant.
Hey, hey, hey !!!

Those are my friends that you're talking about.

And they both think that NASCAR's method of determining a season champion leaves a lot to be desired. :cool:
 

Charlie Spencer

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Hey, hey, hey !!!

Those are my friends that you're talking about.

And they both think that NASCAR's method of determining a season champion leaves a lot to be desired. :cool:
How could you tell? Did they stop wagging and put their tails between their legs?
 

Revman

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The sense of entitlement in Hamlin's comments is sickening. Clearly running over 10,000 races leaves you with an overinflated ego.
Hamlin is still pissed about Briscoe driving like a douchebag in Indy which cost Denny the regular season championship.
 

Revman

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They started out soo darn strong. Not sure what really happened there
NASCAR put an end to the Bondo games, and anybody not named Larson driving a Hendrick Chevrolet became ordinary.
 

Revman

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Gotta tell ya, I love this playoff system---a lot. It's exciting as hell. I love that Larson now has to show up in Phoenix to claim his prize. He doesn't do it, and he becomes the Patriot almost undefeated team who leaves with not a damn thing. MY Toyotas are lurking. This isn't over, and I love it. Flame away.....I don't care.
 

Blaze

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Gotta tell ya, I love this playoff system---a lot. It's exciting as hell. I love that Larson now has to show up in Phoenix to claim his prize. He doesn't do it, and he becomes the Patriot almost undefeated team who leaves with not a damn thing. MY Toyotas are lurking. This isn't over, and I love it. Flame away.....I don't care.
He could actually at this still posit lose it without a playoff system, and that would make it more interesting. He’s only got a 17 point lead over Denny right now without playoffs.
 

AuzGrams

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If we are being honest, MJ doesn’t have the best reputation for being a nice guy. He’s adored by fans for his talents on the court but anyone that takes a second to look under the PR surface knows the stories of MJ being a straight up douche to people during his career. I’m not sure if being tight with MJ looks good on someone’s character or not. Maybe now that he’s older, he matured beyond his younger nonsense.

I’m a fan of MJ….. but I sorta have to agree.

I really wish Mike would show up to some more races. The Daytona 500 and/or Coke 600 specifically.
 

Conover

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Look, I’m for racing throughout the field, and the weasel Hambone can stop his whining. There was too much push back on racing each other during the playoffs, to the point that the last race at Homestead (which I attended) was simply 4 cars racing while the rest were doing a scenic lap parade.
 

StandOnIt

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Look, I’m for racing throughout the field, and the weasel Hambone can stop his whining. There was too much push back on racing each other during the playoffs, to the point that the last race at Homestead (which I attended) was simply 4 cars racing while the rest were doing a scenic lap parade.
I think that is what Hamlin was trying to accomplish. He knows he pretty much is in the final 4 so he is trying to run his mouth downgrading anybody who has a good car.
 

LewTheShoe

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Well the correct answer to that is that nobody else DESERVES to have a shot at the title. Just because it makes a bigger segment of the fanbase happy doesn't make it right.
Any observer of motorsports as well as the broader world of other sports would concede that there are literally dozens of ways to format sporting competitions and championships. There's more than one way to skin a cat, as they say.

There are no absolute truths at play here, only opinions, and they cover a broad spectrum of possibilities. So I'm always skeptical when someone appoints themselves as the arbiter of what is RIGHT and what is WRONG as you have done in your post. I'm especially wary when the self-appointed expert has no skin in the game, but feels free to spend OPM without constraint (other people's money). In the real world, people making such decisions are responsible and accountable for balancing what's fair for competitors with what works commercially and what can broaden the appeal of the sport.

Most sports that seek commercial support have some form of post season playoffs, and they *all* exist for the same reason... sales & marketing. Essentially none of them are required for sporting reasons. It's all about sales & marketing. Without successful sales & marketing, professional competitors are just, well, just rank amateurs.

BTW, when it comes to opinions and personal preferences, I'm curious about yours. Someone said Larson and Hambone are tied for the lead under your preferred championship format, and everyone else is out of the running. How is that system righteous when Larson has won 9 races and Hamlin has 1? or is it 2?
 

gone

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I came across a story about playoff drivers annoyed with non playoff drivers:

https://apnews.com/article/sports-a...denny-hamlin-a2f477e0fbbb845fb9b0fb6f51edea09

I thought Briscoe had a pretty good answer:
“I get paid to race, just because you guys are racing in the playoffs doesn’t mean I’m just gonna wave you by,” Briscoe wrote back to Hamlin. “One of the best cars we’ve had all year and I was trying to take advantage of it. I understand you guys are racing for a championship which is awesome for you guys but I’m racing for a job and results let me keep that job.”
It's a rare year that some self-righteous driver or team tries to blame their own failures upon somebody else. Somebody can't get past a car that hasn't been a consistent contender, so they whine and say something stupid about those drivers "not respecting" them... as if they're not showing their own disrespect, yet somehow expecting the people they insult to gladly do what they want them to do for them...

Goes along with drivers who have been enjoying success for several years but are now struggling, and in their frustration claim that the young drivers have no respect for the older drivers... they forget that it wasn't long ago that they were a young driver who was getting guff from an older driver for doing the same thing...

If the complainers are such great drivers then they shouldn't be having all of these problems with the young drivers - the "great" ones should be able to pass right on by no matter what those kids try to do. When I hear older drivers trying to blame their lack of results upon young drivers, I hear an old driver who is feeling that he's lost his edge - he knows it, but he doesn't want to admit it out loud. If he just shrugs off the day's problems, he's more confident that it was only a rare bad day and he's got plenty more good days left in the tank.

We need the also-rans in the field. Some of those also-rans will become tomorrow's heroes. They aren't going to learn how to be tomorrow's heroes if they simply move over or get out of the throttle early in order to make some old hotshot happy... if their car owners think they're doing that, they might be looking for a new ride or a new sponsor.

Some playoff drivers act as if they expect all of the non-playoff drivers to just stroke, and keep out of their way, as if they own the place. Who wants to watch that? Should the non-playoff cars not bother to show up once they are out of championship contention? Should the final championship race consist of only four cars?

NASCAR considers all of the drivers and teams to be independent contractors, even as it offers some carrots to some teams (such as franchise status). If a team goes bankrupt or quits racing, NASCAR isn't going to bail them out - even as race ratings drop due to lessened competition. It is unlikely that one of the big boy teams will come to their rescue. So drivers and teams have to look out for themselves.

I've heard that rubbin' is racin'... but I've never heard that "well you're not supposed to rub on me, especially if I might lose a championship"...
 

AuzGrams

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Any observer of motorsports as well as the broader world of other sports would concede that there are literally dozens of ways to format sporting competitions and championships. There's more than one way to skin a cat, as they say.

There are no absolute truths at play here, only opinions, and they cover a broad spectrum of possibilities. So I'm always skeptical when someone appoints themselves as the arbiter of what is RIGHT and what is WRONG as you have done in your post. I'm especially wary when the self-appointed expert has no skin in the game, but feels free to spend OPM without constraint (other people's money). In the real world, people making such decisions are responsible and accountable for balancing what's fair for competitors with what works commercially and what can broaden the appeal of the sport.

Most sports that seek commercial support have some form of post season playoffs, and they *all* exist for the same reason... sales & marketing. Essentially none of them are required for sporting reasons. It's all about sales & marketing. Without successful sales & marketing, professional competitors are just, well, just rank amateurs.

BTW, when it comes to opinions and personal preferences, I'm curious about yours. Someone said Larson and Hambone are tied for the lead under your preferred championship format, and everyone else is out of the running. How is that system righteous when Larson has won 9 races and Hamlin has 1? or is it 2?

There was no need to get rid of the Chase after 2013. They should have kicked Bowyer’s team out of the Chase.
 

gone

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imo, Denny isn't the bad guy, it's the playoff format.

This part of the article pretty much sums up everything that's been wrong with the NASCAR Cup Series since 2004.

"NASCAR, unlike any stick-and-ball sports, permits everyone to race in the postseason even if they aren’t in title contention. It puts a mix of slow cars and mediocre drivers on the same track as the superstars racing for the final trophy."

When I try to explain the format to people that don't follow NASCAR they just shake their head and walk away.
It's the playoff format - for making some guys feel too superior...

That quote about permitting everyone to race is ridiculous, if you study it just a little. Not everybody is permitted - cars still have to qualify in based upon speed if there are more entries than starting spots. (When there aren't more entries than starting spots, that shows that NASCAR has a problem - one that it can't cover up by lessening the number of starting spots in a race.) Look at the qualifying speeds - those "slow" cars are usually not much slower than the cars starting up front. (Although, when it skips qualifying that shows another problem with NASCAR.) "Mediocre" drivers in the top series are not slouches, or they wouldn't be there. And most of them are only "mediocre" while they are on the learning curve - few of today's top drivers started out at the front of the field.
 

Revman

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He could actually at this still posit lose it without a playoff system, and that would make it more interesting. He’s only got a 17 point lead over Denny right now without playoffs.
....and isn't that fascinating? The "eye test" would have Larson running away with this thing, but Hamlin's consistency has been rewarded--just like in the good old days.
 

AuzGrams

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My biggest issue with the playoff is the 1 race Game 7 take home.

Why not a 3 race finale where there’s a 4-0 “sweep”.
 
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