Parity?

StandOnIt

StandOnIt

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good article, more here:
https://www.motorsport.com/nascar-cup/news/nascar-keselowski-knaus-toyota-parity-958041/

Maybe Brad Keselowski was on to something when he alleged a lack of parity in the Monster Energy Cup Series.

On Monday, seven-time championship crew chief Chad Knaus warned Keselowski to be cautious when questioning one car make’s advantage over another, particularly since Toyota is playing within the boundaries established by NASCAR.
“Now, that being said, the Toyota teams have exploited this to the next level. I think they actually started to show up with that around May 2015 in Charlotte. We really started to see some performance out of the 19 car and some of those guys around that point in time. “Fast forward — and they get a new body, some more tweaks to the car, and then they’re a lot better. I think, hands down, they have a better downforce/aero package than the other manufacturers do right now.
“Go back six to eight years, and a lot of Chevrolets were winning a lot of races,” Knaus said. “I think it was more so because they had better teams than what the other manufacturers did.

“The teams had the strength then. Now I think the manufacturer has the strength and it’s a huge, huge advantage for those guys.”

Factories were banned from Nascar years ago. But now there is TRD? a single focus racing organization. Not a peep has been said from Nascar about this, but not the birds have come to roost.
 
StandOnIt said:
and they get a new body, some more tweaks to the car, and then they’re a lot better. I think, hands down, they have a better downforce/aero package than the other manufacturers do right now.
“
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Remember when I said that this was the consensus in the garage over their speed and I was lambasted for that being BS?

Well now we have the GOAT crew chief stating the same.

Youre welcome.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Remember when I said that this was the consensus in the garage over their speed and I was lambasted for that being BS?

Well now we have the GOAT crew chief stating the same.

Youre welcome.
Click to expand...

you and many others have commented about the aero advantage. The article has Chad saying it and not only that his timeline is in line what some Toyota fans have been saying here that the performance gains started in 2015
 
Toyota spends more money than Chevrolet and Ford.

Then, after the redesign for '15 they redesigned the Camry again for the '18 model. Its no coincidence that the Camry was redesigned, so I mean its no surprise where Toyota is because the process started after winning like two or three races in '14.

Toyota put in a lot of work and spent a lot of money to get where they are.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Remember when I said that this was the consensus in the garage over their speed and I was lambasted for that being BS?

Well now we have the GOAT crew chief stating the same.

Youre welcome.
Click to expand...
logojpg_fimnal.331131442_std.jpg
 
StandOnIt said:
good article, more here:
https://www.motorsport.com/nascar-cup/news/nascar-keselowski-knaus-toyota-parity-958041/

Maybe Brad Keselowski was on to something when he alleged a lack of parity in the Monster Energy Cup Series.

On Monday, seven-time championship crew chief Chad Knaus warned Keselowski to be cautious when questioning one car make’s advantage over another, particularly since Toyota is playing within the boundaries established by NASCAR.
“Now, that being said, the Toyota teams have exploited this to the next level. I think they actually started to show up with that around May 2015 in Charlotte. We really started to see some performance out of the 19 car and some of those guys around that point in time. “Fast forward — and they get a new body, some more tweaks to the car, and then they’re a lot better. I think, hands down, they have a better downforce/aero package than the other manufacturers do right now.
“Go back six to eight years, and a lot of Chevrolets were winning a lot of races,” Knaus said. “I think it was more so because they had better teams than what the other manufacturers did.

“The teams had the strength then. Now I think the manufacturer has the strength and it’s a huge, huge advantage for those guys.”

Factories were banned from Nascar years ago. But now there is TRD? a single focus racing organization. Not a peep has been said from Nascar about this, but not the birds have come to roost.
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From quote above: Factories were banned from Nascar years ago. Does this statement not mean a Race team owned and operated by a Major Automobile manufacturer?
 
sdj said:
From quote above: Factories were banned from Nascar years ago. Does this statement not mean a Race team owned and operated by a Major Automobile manufacturer?
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I wrote that part, there aren't quotes on it though..shoot the messenger.:dunce: I did learn something from it though thanks to Aunty D.
 
sdj said:
From quote above: Factories were banned from Nascar years ago. Does this statement not mean a Race team owned and operated by a Major Automobile manufacturer?
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I'm a bit of a historian. Big Bill banned all out factory teams. So Holman-Moody came about and was a thinly veiled Ford Factory team, GM had one too I would have to look it up. Like everything else about racing there are ways to get around just about everything. I guess the same thing exists now, by wink, or hook or crook from all of them.
 
For the most part I think what parity in Nascar means is that if my favorite ____________ is doing well then parity exists and if not then things are unfair. Even if truly identical cars could be issued people would still complain about someone having an imagined advantage.

IDK what would make people happy as on one hand there is all sorts of complaining about cars being unable to pass be it real or perceived but if one car is better prepared that day and passes a bunch of cars and then checks out people don't like that either. I think it is up to Nascar to give each team equal opportunity in the set parameters but often time people confuse equal opportunity with guaranteed results and even Nascar can't manipulate that into being.
 
StandOnIt said:
I'm a bit of a historian. Big Bill banned all out factory teams. So Holman-Moody came about and was a thinly veiled Ford Factory team, GM had one too I would have to look it up. Like everything else about racing there are ways to get around just about everything. I guess the same thing exists now, by wink, or hook or crook from all of them.
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So, how did Evernham get by with his Dodge team when that team was clearly the make (factory) Dodge organization?

Or was that rule averted?
 
I heard at the first of the season, some teams probably the SHR Fords were tweaking the front splitter to direct the air differently under the car for an advantage. Nascar nixed it
 
Kiante said:
So, how did Evernham get by with his Dodge team when that team was clearly the make (factory) Dodge organization?

Or was that rule averted?
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'Clearly' isn't 'technically'. You could ask the same question about Mikey's Toyota start-up, and the same answer would apply.
 
Kiante said:
Toyota spends more money than Chevrolet and Ford.

Then, after the redesign for '15 they redesigned the Camry again for the '18 model. Its no coincidence that the Camry was redesigned, so I mean its no surprise where Toyota is because the process started after winning like two or three races in '14.

Toyota put in a lot of work and spent a lot of money to get where they are.
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I agree 100% and GM and Ford could spend the same money as Toyota in an attempt to bridge the gap if they chose to do so. It is Un-American to force someone to dumb down what they are doing in order for others to be able to participate.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
'Parity' is just 'party' with an extra vowel in the middle.



Okay, I have no idea if that means anything.
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I was thinking more about parody.

If we can get in a couple of swipes and Joe Gibbs and fire a few zingers Kyle's way the weekly bash Toyota thread will be complete......:D
 
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Kiante said:
In the Cup series?

MWR switched to Toyota in '07, RBR had a team the year before in the #4 car. I'm usually wrong though.
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this is what Google says..we are both wrong according to the Google.:)

Toyota moved to the then Busch Series (now Xfinity Series) and NEXTEL Cup Series (now the Monster Energy NASCAR Cup Series) with the Toyota Camry for 2007. Two relatively new teams, Michael Waltrip Racing and Red Bull Racing Team, along with long-time Cup team Bill Davis Racing spearheaded the initial Toyota Cup program.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Yeah, but I recall MWR's relationship with Toyota was much closer than RBs.

I still wonder how a team with RB's resources couldn't make it in Cup.
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seems hilarious now but Toyota could have thought that Mikey gave them a better shot at being competitive than the Red Bull bunch. Ya have to remember there weren't many organizations to choose from until Gibbs came along. He already had an established winning organization
 
As for parity, the racing is closer than ever and the field is as strong as ever so not much room for improvement there. And hell, the championships are as close as ever!
 
NASCAR Apologist said:
As for parity, the racing is closer than ever and the field is as strong as ever so not much room for improvement there. And hell, the championships are as close as ever!
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uh huh. Right :booya: Larson stole a couple races from them in late restarts or it would have been 10 out of 12

In the last three months, Toyota drivers have won eight of the 12 races. Want to talk raw speed? Toyotas have won 12 of 26 poles this season — including Kyle Busch’s career-high eight poles for one season all earned in the last 16 races.

And the six Toyota drivers have led 4509 of a possible 7971 laps this season or 56.5-percent. The No. 78 Furniture Row Racing Toyota alone has led 23-percent of all laps raced.
 
Kiante said:
Toyota spends more money than Chevrolet and Ford.

Then, after the redesign for '15 they redesigned the Camry again for the '18 model. Its no coincidence that the Camry was redesigned, so I mean its no surprise where Toyota is because the process started after winning like two or three races in '14.

Toyota put in a lot of work and spent a lot of money to get where they are.
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First of all show me the actual statistics that show Toyota spends more dollars than Ford and GM I think that's just one of those things people say second of all they all work super hard they all deserve to be competitive it's definitely an advantage that Toyota has
 
StandOnIt said:
uh huh. Right :booya: Larson stole a couple races from them in late restarts or it would have been 10 out of 12

In the last three months, Toyota drivers have won eight of the 12 races. Want to talk raw speed? Toyotas have won 12 of 26 poles this season — including Kyle Busch’s career-high eight poles for one season all earned in the last 16 races.

And the six Toyota drivers have led 4509 of a possible 7971 laps this season or 56.5-percent. The No. 78 Furniture Row Racing Toyota alone has led 23-percent of all laps raced.
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Yup yup total parity
 
Fordracing7 said:
First of all show me the actual statistics that show Toyota spends more dollars than Ford and GM I think that's just one of those things people say second of all they all work super hard they all deserve to be competitive it's definitely an advantage that Toyota has
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as Chad has said they got a new front end and a few aero tweaks. I don't know where that goes under working harder or spending more money. It could be easily evened up if Nascar chose to do so.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Yeah, but I recall MWR's relationship with Toyota was much closer than RBs.

I still wonder how a team with RB's resources couldn't make it in Cup.
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At the time someone from RB said departing Nascar was not financially or competitively motivated but it was due to the incompatibility between the RB brand and the Nascar fan.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
At the time someone from RB said departing Nascar was not financially or competitively motivated but it was due to the incompatibility between the RB brand and the Nascar fan.
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That's an interesting comment, in light of NASCAR's current title sponsor. I'm ignorant; I would have said Red Bull and Monster were aimed at the same market. Maybe a decade and half makes all the difference. :idunno:
 
Charlie Spencer said:
That's an interesting comment, in light of NASCAR's current title sponsor. I'm ignorant; I would have said Red Bull and Monster were aimed at the same market. Maybe a decade and half makes all the difference. :idunno:
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https://www.nascar.com/en_us/news-m.../20/red-bull-reportedly-out-after-season.html

I have never had an energy drink other than coffee so IDK anything about them or if Monster and RB cater to different demographics. I did find this line from nascar.com dated June 2011: "No reason for Red Bull's leaving has been given, but the energy drink markets to the 18-to-34 age group -- the demographic NASCAR has consistently lost in its current ratings slide."

It is remarkable how a bad demographic and ratings slides were being spoken of over 6 years ago and the quote is even more relevant today. One thing I will say is that not only does Monster appear not to have both feet in Nascar it seems like it is barely one toe. When Monster signed on with Nascar it seemed like they were happy to affiliate with Nascar on the cheap to see if it would lead somewhere and if it did great and if not no biggie. If I was forced to make a guess I would say that Monster will stay with Nascar for another couple of years but at about half of what they are currently spending. Allen reported several weeks ago that Monster was very dissatisfied with Nascar and IDK if that situation has been rectified.
 
in 2011.
No reason for Red Bull's leaving has been given, but the energy drink markets to the 18-to-34 age group -- the demographic NASCAR has consistently lost in its current ratings slide.
good reason here, more bang for their buck
Red Bull, meanwhile, also owns a pair of two-car Formula One teams. Current points leader Sebastian Vettel is the reigning world champion and has won five of seven Grand Prix races this season.
https://www.nascar.com/en_us/news-m.../20/red-bull-reportedly-out-after-season.html
 
StandOnIt said:
in 2011.
No reason for Red Bull's leaving has been given, but the energy drink markets to the 18-to-34 age group -- the demographic NASCAR has consistently lost in its current ratings slide.
good reason here, more bang for their buck
Red Bull, meanwhile, also owns a pair of two-car Formula One teams. Current points leader Sebastian Vettel is the reigning world champion and has won five of seven Grand Prix races this season.
https://www.nascar.com/en_us/news-m.../20/red-bull-reportedly-out-after-season.html
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Essentially RB was saying Nascar offered zero bang for the buck and they sold off all their stuff at pennies on the dollar and ran away as fast as they could.
 
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