Parity?

Mopardh9 said:
Fields strong as ever??? :rolleyes:
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In terms of driver talent, yes.

The field is deeper now than it was say three years ago.

Larson, Dillon bros, Elloitt, Blaney, Logano's rebirth with Penske, Truex's autonomous car, Jones, Suarez and plenty of young guns ready to move up through the ranks.

To be honest, its only getting better, driver wise that is.
 
StandOnIt said:
If you haven't figured it out by now with numerous examples I give up, worn out kaput, done. nada. ;)
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You've given examples of what parity is and isn't, but neither you nor your 'examples' have said why parity good or why having a manufacturer dominate is bad in NASCAR.

Plain English, words of one syllable (or smaller), ANYBODY AT ALL who can support the position.
 
Revman said:
You need some new stuff, but I get it, when Toyota is winning everything you are reduced to old stuff. Chin up, this is cyclical as they say.
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Im not anti-Toyota lol. Besides, as a Gordon fan it would be hypocritical of me to be frustrated at a certain team's dominance. As if my favorite driver was never there before.

Although I dont act like I'm apart of said race team.
 
Any specifics yet on how Toyota's dominance has negatively impacted NASCAR!
 
Charlie Spencer said:
And you still haven't said why parity is good for 2017 NASCAR Cup racing. Give me one reason, please. Try starting with 'Parity is good because..."
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Parity is good because it contributes greatly toward producing races that are interesting and fun to attend or view on TV. When a couple of guys have a sizable advantage over all the rest, the odds of a good race or a great race are diminished. Fans of racing generally want to see hard fought competition for the win, and it's best when their favorite driver and their favorite marque is in the mix.

Fans also want to see a "fair" contest and are gratified to see excellence and skill prevail. Nascar is different from most sports in that the three manufacturers each have rules and specifications that apply just to them. If Toyota's package has greater potential than the others - the condition alleged by Kez and many others in the industry - then the game is not fair.

If Toyota has simply done a better job of realizing their potential - the condition alleged by Denny Hamlin - then telling Ford and Chevy to work harder makes more sense. However, there remains the question... should Nascar as an industry go down the F1 route of constantly introducing new aero designs, new powertrain developments, chassis designs, etc? So telling Ford, "Go design a new body" raises budget issues as well as a long lead time.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Parity is good because it contributes greatly toward producing races that are interesting and fun to attend or view on TV. When a couple of guys have a sizable advantage over all the rest, the odds of a good race or a great race are diminished. Fans of racing generally want to see hard fought competition for the win, and it's best when their favorite driver and their favorite marque is in the mix.

Fans also want to see a "fair" contest and are gratified to see excellence and skill prevail. Nascar is different from most sports in that the three manufacturers each have rules and specifications that apply just to them. If Toyota's package has greater potential than the others - the condition alleged by Kez and many others in the industry - then the game is not fair.

If Toyota has simply done a better job of realizing their potential - the condition alleged by Denny Hamlin - then telling Ford and Chevy to work harder makes more sense. However, there remains the question... should Nascar as an industry go down the F1 route of constantly introducing new aero designs, new powertrain developments, chassis designs, etc? So telling Ford, "Go design a new body" raises budget issues as well as a long lead time.
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An answer! Even if I don't agree with parts of it...
 
LewTheShoe said:
Parity is good because it contributes greatly toward producing races that are interesting and fun to attend or view on TV. When a couple of guys have a sizable advantage over all the rest, the odds of a good race or a great race are diminished. Fans of racing generally want to see hard fought competition for the win, and it's best when their favorite driver and their favorite marque is in the mix.

Fans also want to see a "fair" contest and are gratified to see excellence and skill prevail. Nascar is different from most sports in that the three manufacturers each have rules and specifications that apply just to them. If Toyota's package has greater potential than the others - the condition alleged by Kez and many others in the industry - then the game is not fair.

If Toyota has simply done a better job of realizing their potential - the condition alleged by Denny Hamlin - then telling Ford and Chevy to work harder makes more sense. However, there remains the question... should Nascar as an industry go down the F1 route of constantly introducing new aero designs, new powertrain developments, chassis designs, etc? So telling Ford, "Go design a new body" raises budget issues as well as a long lead time.
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Great answer sir!
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Throws off the chemical balance in your pool, sets your DVR to record 'Toddlers and Tiaras', causes your dog to pass wicked farts, forwards your e-mail address to Mexican time-share companies.
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Yeah that about what I thought. In the end it is just a bunch of bellyaching about nothing.
 
I have no problem with Toyota winning races, I expect them to I expect them to win 10-12. I have no problem with Chevrolet winning races I expect them to win roughly a 1/3 of the season as well. I expect these teams and drivers to win. They deserve it, they all work hard and they all spend a ton of money. The sponsors deserve it, the fans deserve it. Nascar needs parity they need five to ten guys that could win any given week, they need competition. But when 2 guys go dominate every race with an predictable outcome it loses its excitement. That's why I think that right now the Toyotas have an advantage and the 78 has the best crew chief and the 18 has the best driver within that group so therefore those two are excelling. But to me Suarez is not better than Jimmie Johnson and therefore has an advantage from the car and that's why every week he has been outrunning him.....blah blah deaf ears.....trust me I don't want anyone to dominate I like competition that's why I fell in love with sport in the first place. 28 vs 3, 88,6 vs 24, 5, Roush vs Hendrick etc etc.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
An answer! Even if I don't agree with parts of it...
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I appreciated the answer too but if that is the case there isn't much incentive to spend a lot of money developing something better when the sanctioning body is just going to give the others something that will even things up. I never minded back in the old days when the top 5 were on different laps and I don't see manufacturer today so it makes no difference to me if the 78 team has worked harder and smarter than everyone else and wins regularly and the next best cars are the 11 and 18.
 
Same here. but watching them getting out front and sitting on the lead time after time. When with just a few treaks for Ford or Chevy and it could be three brand dog fights racing IMO. I believe Nascar doesn't want egg on their face, don't want the aero numbers leaked out, so until next year in the off season is when it will get evened up. If this keeps up, and it will, it isn't going to be good for attendance or ratings IMO. Back in the day when they raced show room looking cars, Nascar would add spoiler heights to even them up. It's just that simple.
 
Fordracing7 said:


May or may not be a relevant answer...we would never know.
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The races are off about the normal year to year amount so I don't think it is hurting ratings but I can't say for sure. IMO the last 3 races have been awful and not because of Toyota.
 
StandOnIt said:
Same here. but watching them getting out front and sitting on the lead time after time. When with just a few treaks for Ford or Chevy and it could be three brand dog fights racing IMO. I believe Nascar doesn't want egg on their face, don't want the aero numbers leaked out, so until next year in the off season is when it will get evened up. If this keeps up, and it will, it isn't going to be good for attendance or ratings IMO.
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I'm calling BS on the broken wind tunnel.......:D
 
Fordracing7 said:


May or may not be a relevant answer...we would never know.
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Nice statistic but it's presented in isolation.

1) How about the previous 25 races, as compared to previous years?
2) NASCAR ratings always drop when football season starts. How does the drop off over the last three races compare to previous seasons?
3) Excluding football, how are other sports doing over that time period?
 
StandOnIt said:
hope

hopefully you have the bandwith to listen to this. Wind tunnel was out of order o_O It has been posted before.

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Yeah but is it reallllllllyyyy out of order or has it been sabotaged? Food for thought.
 
StandOnIt said:
So far Kez's prediction is right on. Unless they step on their peckers like they did at Indy, it looks like the same ol same ol.
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Barring something shocking I think we can write the rest of the season off at this point. The current playoff format doesn't have the same element of randomness that the one of the prior three years did, and the de facto works cars are far enough ahead of the field that it'd take a massive improvement from anyone on another team in an obscenely short period of time to be able to match them on raw pace. With the way Hamlin and Kenseth have been running recently they may even have a Championship Four lockout. It'd take a really bad streak of failures or incidents to throw these guys off of their game right now.
 
5 of the top 6 starting spots are Gibbs or affiliates. This crap is ridiculous now. Kez is real consistent right now. I hope him or Harvick can step it up for Ford. If I'm not mistaken, Kez can only be taken out this round with like a last place finish and someone out of the top 12 winning. Even that's a stretch. I'll even take Larson or Johnson at this point. I'm not happy and BK was 100% right. Kenseth would piss me off the least of the JGR cars winning it all.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Parity is good because it contributes greatly toward producing races that are interesting and fun to attend or view on TV. When a couple of guys have a sizable advantage over all the rest, the odds of a good race or a great race are diminished. Fans of racing generally want to see hard fought competition for the win, and it's best when their favorite driver and their favorite marque is in the mix.

Fans also want to see a "fair" contest and are gratified to see excellence and skill prevail. Nascar is different from most sports in that the three manufacturers each have rules and specifications that apply just to them. If Toyota's package has greater potential than the others - the condition alleged by Kez and many others in the industry - then the game is not fair.

If Toyota has simply done a better job of realizing their potential - the condition alleged by Denny Hamlin - then telling Ford and Chevy to work harder makes more sense. However, there remains the question... should Nascar as an industry go down the F1 route of constantly introducing new aero designs, new powertrain developments, chassis designs, etc? So telling Ford, "Go design a new body" raises budget issues as well as a long lead time.
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Nailed it!
 
SlicedBread22 said:
Not sure if it's been said but IMO parity is desired because every fan wants to see their driver win... If one team or manufacturer is always winning that leaves the rest without the wins... Kind of obvious no?
:idunno:
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I think you are accurate, but the playing field is level to start. Manufacturers fall behind. Get caught up. All will be good. It will happen. We all know that. So, the bitching about it is a bunch of crying. I really don't take any joy in it. As matter of fact, I am kind of surprised by it. This is sport. I thought we hated everybody getting a trophy? :idunno:
 
Revman said:
I think you are accurate, but the playing field is level to start. Manufacturers fall behind. Get caught up. All will be good. It will happen. We all know that. So, the bitching about it is a bunch of crying. I really don't take any joy in it. As matter of fact, I am kind of surprised by it. This is sport. I thought we hated everybody getting a trophy? :idunno:
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Oh, I wonder why you take this stance since Kez is 100% right and your boy is reaping the benefits. That's alright. Truex will whoop him anyway.
 
Ashstrodamus said:
Oh, I wonder why you take this stance since Kez is 100% right and your boy is reaping the benefits. That's alright. Truex will whoop him anyway.
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....and Truex drives a ? ....Kez needs to find a better manufacturer IMO.
 
A question for the board. If Ford decided to spend thousands of hours and millions of dollars in order to make their car better is it fair for Nascar to negate that advantage by simply giving Toyota and Chevrolet something that allows them to keep up and costs them nothing?

If the answer is that it is fair for Nascar to do this the next question is are we really that shallow and petty that we would rather watch something dumbed down as opposed to those striving to become the best?

For the record I am not a lover, liker, hater or disliker of any one of Nascar's manufacturers.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
A question for the board. If Ford decided to spend thousands of hours and millions of dollars in order to make their car better is it fair for Nascar to negate that advantage by simply giving Toyota and Chevrolet something that allows them to keep up and costs them nothing?

If the answer is that it is fair for Nascar to do this the next question is are we really that shallow and petty that we would rather watch something dumbed down as opposed to those striving to become the best?

For the record I am not a lover, liker, hater or disliker of any one of Nascar's manufacturers.
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I am of the opinion that many here advance agendas in the name of "good racing'" when really they are advancing the agendas of their favorite teams and drivers. Why? You got me. :idunno: I have no problem with somebody hating what Toyota is doing because they hate Toyota. I have a problem with somebody hating what Toyota is doing and suggesting that their position is globally good for the sport when really it is about hating Toyota.
 
Revman said:
I am of the opinion that many here advance agendas in the name of "good racing'" when really they are advancing the agendas of their favorite teams and drivers. Why? You got me. :idunno: I have no problem with somebody hating what Toyota is doing because they hate Toyota. I have a problem with somebody hating what Toyota is doing and suggesting that their position is globally good for the sport when really it is about hating Toyota.
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Clearly there are a few people here that fear Toyota for reasons only known to them. Jingoism or xenophobia likely has a lot to do with it IMO.
 
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Revman said:
I am of the opinion that many here advance agendas in the name of "good racing'" when really they are advancing the agendas of their favorite teams and drivers. Why? You got me. :idunno: I have no problem with somebody hating what Toyota is doing because they hate Toyota. I have a problem with somebody hating what Toyota is doing and suggesting that their position is globally good for the sport when really it is about hating Toyota.
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Nascar has been balancing teams performances long before you and "your" Toyota's showed up. As pointed out by Kez, the statistics, which many don't believe? and pointed out in thread # 142 Nascar hasn't lifted a finger this year to test ANY of the cars AND this is a common practice for years. Long before Toyota is in the sport.
 
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