Penske vs. Hendrick

FenderBumper said:
Brad didn't win with horsepower. That was painfully obvious when he was racing the 24 and 42. He was beating them into, thru, and out of the corners, yet they pulled away and got it all back on the straights. I think Chevy has a 20 to 30 HP advantage over Ford right now.
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keep thinkin that.
 
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FenderBumper said:
Brad didn't win with horsepower. That was painfully obvious when he was racing the 24 and 42. He was beating them into, thru, and out of the corners, yet they pulled away and got it all back on the straights. I think Chevy has a 20 to 30 HP advantage over Ford right now.
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20-30?! Thats a huuuge difference... maybe 2-3.. and thats probably pushin it.. it doesnt take much to make a few hundredths difference and thats all any team needs... Brad had everyone beat by a few tenths by the end of that race... all setup
 
i think the 2 & 48 are the best cars, have shown the best horsepower, the 2 best crew chiefs, and right now i think just like the 48, you're gonna have to race the 2 for the win. also think the championship is between the 2 & 48. so i say they are just so close, that it could go back and forth each race. but i say Penske, because all his teams are clicking, plus i like Penske better.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
20-30?! Thats a huuuge difference... maybe 2-3.. and thats probably pushin it.. it doesnt take much to make a few hundredths difference and thats all any team needs... Brad had everyone beat by a few tenths by the end of that race... all setup
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2 or 3? lol When you get up around 800 HP, it takes a lot more than that to even notice. 20 to 30 HP is around a 3% gain in HP.

StandOnIt said:
keep thinkin that.
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Yep. I'll do the thinking for you. :p
 
Can you imagine 800HP on the street?
A friend of mine does the plumbing for NRE. (Nelson Racing Engines.) Another friend is having a stroked, twin-turbo motor built by NRE for his previously, 9-sec street El Camino. The motor is going to cost him $50,000-$60,000 but it is estimated 2,000HP.
How do you drive that on the street?
 
BobbyFord said:
Can you imagine 800HP on the street?
A friend of mine does the plumbing for NRE. (Nelson Racing Engines.) Another friend is having a stroked, twin-turbo motor built by NRE for his previously, 9-sec street El Camino. The motor is going to cost him $50,000-$60,000 but it is estimated 2,000HP.
How do you drive that on the street?
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He better make sure he has a transmission that can handle it :)
 
BobbyFord said:
Can you imagine 800HP on the street?
A friend of mine does the plumbing for NRE. (Nelson Racing Engines.) Another friend is having a stroked, twin-turbo motor built by NRE for his previously, 9-sec street El Camino. The motor is going to cost him $50,000-$60,000 but it is estimated 2,000HP.
How do you drive that on the street?
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hopefully he will get in touch with the 405 boys in Oklahoma City. Don't know if you get or watch the show Street Outlaws. They race cars like that on the show.
 
BobbyFord said:
Can you imagine 800HP on the street?
A friend of mine does the plumbing for NRE. (Nelson Racing Engines.) Another friend is having a stroked, twin-turbo motor built by NRE for his previously, 9-sec street El Camino. The motor is going to cost him $50,000-$60,000 but it is estimated 2,000HP.
How do you drive that on the street?
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Don't go past any retirement homes.
 
BobbyFord said:
Can you imagine 800HP on the street?
A friend of mine does the plumbing for NRE. (Nelson Racing Engines.) Another friend is having a stroked, twin-turbo motor built by NRE for his previously, 9-sec street El Camino. The motor is going to cost him $50,000-$60,000 but it is estimated 2,000HP.
How do you drive that on the street?
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Right foot
 
StandOnIt said:
hopefully he will get in touch with the 405 boys in Oklahoma City. Don't know if you get or watch the show Street Outlaws. They race cars like that on the show.
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Supposedly. it comes with a dial on the dash to select HP. Nelson worked for Bill Hiatt before he whacked himself. (Bill Hiatt Racing).
My buddy Mark Bohlen ( http://www.bentcustomandperformance.com/ ) plumbed this Pontiac for NRE...
 
He would fit right in, they have already been out to California. One on the left is called Sonoma, and the right is Big Chiefs twin turbo Indian and then there is the Turbo'd Murder Nova.

images
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images
 
I met Mark, shooting pool, at least 10 years ago. He now has a shop where he builds cars. He started out, as a youngster, working for some NHRA drag racing team. His fab skills are amazing. He does extreme sheet metal, custom stainless tube bending, roll cages, everything. He's been on Monster Garage.
He also builds "from scratch' frames. He has computer programs that enable him to create his own suspension.
This is a "from scratch" frame that he made for a friends early Chevy pickup. Everything you see is hand-fabbed...





Mark runs his own gig and is active at SEMA.

I asked him for tips bending the stainless fuel lines for my 466" Ford truck. He clowned me and made me learn it on my own. This is my first ever hand bent 3/8" stainless steel AN fuel lines...

PCV line...

This is crap compared to what Mark does.
This is Mark's carb line on my Holley...
 
ah don't sell yourself short, your look pretty damn good for a first try. I wanked some brake lines that looked like moldy spaghetti compared to that.
 
StandOnIt said:
ah don't sell yourself short, your look pretty damn good for a first try. I wanked some brake lines that looked like moldy spaghetti compared to that.
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Yeah well I didn't say anything about the $200 worth of stainless that I scrapped while learning :D
I wasn't smart enough to bend some $3 mild galvanized steel line until I figured out what I was doing. You see the finished product. I made some expensive stainless tube pretzels before that. ;)
 
BobbyFord said:
I met Mark, shooting pool, at least 10 years ago. He now has a shop where he builds cars. He started out, as a youngster, working for some NHRA drag racing team. His fab skills are amazing. He does extreme sheet metal, custom stainless tube bending, roll cages, everything. He's been on Monster Garage.
He also builds "from scratch' frames. He has computer programs that enable him to create his own suspension.
This is a "from scratch" frame that he made for a friends early Chevy pickup. Everything you see is hand-fabbed...





Mark runs his own gig and is active at SEMA.

I asked him for tips bending the stainless fuel lines for my 466" Ford truck. He clowned me and made me learn it on my own. This is my first ever hand bent 3/8" stainless steel AN fuel lines...

PCV line...

This is crap compared to what Mark does.
This is Mark's carb line on my Holley...
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bf---that ss tube tool looks so easy goin just rt / lft bends ......but then when ya gotta go up / down / sideways too !
finally ya get it right .....then fk up tha flare on 1 end !!!!!!!!! :headbang:

guys that do that every day .......got extreme talent !
 
hawg dawg said:
bf---that ss tube tool looks so easy goin just rt / lft bends ......but then when ya gotta go up / down / sideways too !
finally ya get it right .....then fk up tha flare on 1 end !!!!!!!!! :headbang:

guys that do that every day .......got extreme talent !
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Yeah. No doubt. I'm a beginner at best. It kicked my ass.
Mark is a master. He's been in Super Chevy magazine, on TV, in videos, etc.
He has photos in his gallery that I linked. He is extremely talented. Good people, too.
He also tig welded the exhaust crossover shut in my Wieand intake. I can weld like crazy but I don't have a $5000 tig welder.
 
FenderBumper said:
Brad didn't win with horsepower. That was painfully obvious when he was racing the 24 and 42. He was beating them into, thru, and out of the corners, yet they pulled away and got it all back on the straights. I think Chevy has a 20 to 30 HP advantage over Ford right now.
Click to expand...

Think I heard that 10 horsepower is worth a tenth so really that makes sense. Heard Buddy Baker talking to Jimmy Makar on NASCAR Radio tonight, and he was suggesting that right side splitter is up while left is on the ground as the new flavor of the month in set up. Said that Penske had the thing down to an art. Makar suggested that JGR had struggled after the fuel had burnt off, and that they found something. They aren't where Penske is, but felt that they are gaining on it.
 
Revman said:
Think I heard that 10 horsepower is worth a tenth so really that makes sense. Heard Buddy Baker talking to Jimmy Makar on NASCAR Radio tonight, and he was suggesting that right side splitter is up while left is on the ground as the new flavor of the month in set up. Said that Penske had the thing down to an art. Makar suggested that JGR had struggled after the fuel had burnt off, and that they found something. They aren't where Penske is, but felt that they are gaining on it.
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Agree that JGR figured something out. Just wait until they get it down. Raw talent, I think Kyle is the best out there, IMO, Carl is a close second, but for a driver that gets the best out of a car and doesn't overdrive the setup, Matt Kenseth is as good as anyone that has ever sat in a stock car. JMO, of course.
 
back ta penske / hms.

hms has superior hp.
old chassis adage ....."if ya can't get hp ta tha ground ....don't matter how much ya got ! "
penske got that edge so far ......thinkin hms savin hole card for chase races tho....
we'll see at chicago.
 
hawg dawg said:
back ta penske / hms.

hms has superior hp.
old chassis adage ....."if ya can't get hp ta tha ground ....don't matter how much ya got ! "
penske got that edge so far ......thinkin hms savin hole card for chase races tho....
we'll see at chicago.
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If Penske had HMS horsepower and their chassis set up they'd win every race.
Whatever SHR has found (4 car) has been very impressive at times also. Anyone that can't see Harvick with a Cup Championship is fooling themselves.
 
BobbyFord said:
Yeah. No doubt. I'm a beginner at best. It kicked my ass.
Mark is a master. He's been in Super Chevy magazine, on TV, in videos, etc.
He has photos in his gallery that I linked. He is extremely talented. Good people, too.
He also tig welded the exhaust crossover shut in my Wieand intake. I can weld like crazy but I don't have a $5000 tig welder.
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yep...i'm like you ........no big deal .....til ya frig up a bunch of those ss lines ....an cardboard tube is empty......and no finished product ! ha! " hey joe......can ya fit me in ?" ha!
 
Jeffrey00 said:
what does Jimmie being caught in past have to do with the 2 cheating now?
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The 2 is pure speculation first of all second of all it would not be any surprises considering how much Knaus has done it in the past....furthermore just because a team has an edge in one area doeant mean they are cheating anymore then anyone else.
 
BobbyFord said:
If Penske had HMS horsepower and their chassis set up they'd win every race.
Whatever SHR has found (4 car) has been very impressive at times also. Anyone that can't see Harvick with a Cup Championship is fooling themselves.
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yep...4 hooks up in corner like 2 does.
odd that other shr teams can't repeat ?
 
does 48 hms have it already figured out for chase tho. ?

when has hms chase team ever parked for tha day.....after lap 15 incident ?
on chase track # 2 ... they'll see again in fall ?

hms ain't gonna show their real stuff til chicago !
****might give a little ta #5......ta get into chase tho ?
 
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I think Chad got a bit to clever on the setup and got bit, he won't do it again. The spin might have screwed up something on the suspension, who knows, they ain't talking.
 
BobbyFord said:
Can you imagine 800HP on the street?
A friend of mine does the plumbing for NRE. (Nelson Racing Engines.) Another friend is having a stroked, twin-turbo motor built by NRE for his previously, 9-sec street El Camino. The motor is going to cost him $50,000-$60,000 but it is estimated 2,000HP.
How do you drive that on the street?
Click to expand...
500 gallon gas tank?
 
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FenderBumper said:
2 or 3? lol When you get up around 800 HP, it takes a lot more than that to even notice. 20 to 30 HP is around a 3% gain in HP.
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3% is a giant figure when it comes to how miniscule the differences in these cars really are.

It doesnt take more than a few HP to notice over 500 miles.

Most of the speed in these cars is in the corners and comes from the setup, as you noted in reference to Brad vs Gordon at Loudon.. 2-3 hp plus a better setup can easily make a car seem to have 20-30 more hp... but its just not feasible.

Think about it like this.... why would NASCAR be going through this whole horse power reduction thing for 2015 (75-100hp) If teams could be in a position to have an advantage of nearly half that already?

I dont disagree Hendrick may have more horsepower... but Penske still dominating the mile and a half tracks, and now the flat tracks as well, maybe the finishes dont show it but its clear as day throughout the races..... Setup is everything. The speed comes from when/how you get off the gas and/or on the brakes in to the turns and how your car reacts when you get back into the gas. If Hendrick has that much of a HP advantage then they are behind the ball in terms of setup.
 
Revman said:
Think I heard that 10 horsepower is worth a tenth so really that makes sense. Heard Buddy Baker talking to Jimmy Makar on NASCAR Radio tonight, and he was suggesting that right side splitter is up while left is on the ground as the new flavor of the month in set up. Said that Penske had the thing down to an art. Makar suggested that JGR had struggled after the fuel had burnt off, and that they found something. They aren't where Penske is, but felt that they are gaining on it.
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The 48 used to be the master of getting the rear of the car to drop the splitter out of the air on the straight, and pop back up under braking. The zero ride height seems to have taken that away, and maybe they are leaning on tire pressures too much.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
It doesnt take more than a few HP to notice over 500 miles.
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It doesn't work like that.

SlicedBread22 said:
Most of the speed in these cars is in the corners and comes from the setup, as you noted in reference to Brad vs Gordon at Loudon.. 2-3 hp plus a better setup can easily make a car seem to have 20-30 more hp... but its just not feasible.
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Not sure what you mean to say. I'll assume you meant that "Most of the speed DIFFERENCE..". If so, that is usually the case.




SlicedBread22 said:
The speed comes from when/how you get off the gas and/or on the brakes in to the turns and how your car reacts when you get back into the gas. If Hendrick has that much of a HP advantage then they are behind the ball in terms of setup.
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Watch the video closely. Brad, with the better setup, kills Jeff thru the turn, then Jeff blasts away on the straight. With the lower exit speeds at NH, only one thing explains that. HP, and lots of it. It was surprising to see Jeff get more than a car length away, after being slower in the turn, on such a short straight. He gave it all up in the turns, then moved away and prevented the 2 from getting inside on exit, which is why the pass took so many laps. With the dominant handling the 2 showed, and the talent behind the wheel, he should have blown right by Jeff.
 
teams can now tune an engine for torque or speed, Brads car looks like it has more torque(quicker acceleration) less top end.
 
StandOnIt said:
teams can now tune an engine for torque or speed, Brads car looks like it has more torque(quicker acceleration) less top end.
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Interesting. Gears too. But I'm not sure how torque affects acceleration at these speeds. Don't they try to keep the engine in a prime HP (RPM) range?

I'll have to watch closely at the next 1.5.
 
StandOnIt said:
teams can now tune an engine for torque or speed, Brads car looks like it has more torque(quicker acceleration) less top end.
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Yup. TRD has at least 4 maps per race ranging from fuel conservation to full power.
 
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