Picked a Fine Time to Leave Me Loose Wheel.

KTMLew01

Team Owner
Joined
Jan 31, 2017
Messages
4,004
Points
443
I think we need a thread with a weekly total. Was it 2 or 3 this week?

If the pit crews can't figure it out, we'll shame them out of the sport.

WE HAVE THE POWER!


(and for those that have difficulty, mostly sarcasm) :punkrocke:booya::owquitit::dirtbike::dunce::dual9mm::moon::bazooka::cheers::biggrin::D
 

LJ7201

#80
Joined
Aug 31, 2017
Messages
824
Points
223
Location
Ohio
Watching every race like
EnJdb9bUUAE9aOm.jpg_large.jpg
 

Formerjackman

Team Owner
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
4,377
Points
493
No matter how you slice it, it is a (non) solution to a problem we didn't have in the first place. The tire changer himself said there is now no margin for error. This is progress? Everyone likes to think thinks this problem is just going to go away, but it won't, and at some point it's going to bite the sport in the ass and somebody is going to get hurt. Only some REALLY heads up driving saved the 16's tire from getting punted to God knows where. By this point in the season, the tire changers on the top teams have probably had literally hundreds of reps and yet we had at least three loose wheels on Monday. Does anybody REALLY think a few hundred or a thousand more reps are going to completely eliminate this? Even if it only happens five more times the rest of the season, that would likely be five more times than it happened in the last five years in the Cup Series.
 

Ford 222

Team Owner
Joined
Apr 25, 2016
Messages
1,931
Points
343
Sadly, attorneys are frothing at the mouth awaiting a spectator (preferable-More $) or competitor/team member to be injured as a result then they can point to all these previous instances to show NASCAR, the teams, and whoever else they can pull into a lawsuit knew this was an issue and did nothing. Punitive damages will be astronomical IF (God forbid) a tragedy happens with this history.
 

Jorge De Guzman

2017, 2021 Pick Em Champion 2018 Bold Predictor
Joined
Feb 13, 2017
Messages
12,404
Points
883
Sadly, attorneys are frothing at the mouth awaiting a spectator (preferable-More $) or competitor/team member to be injured as a result then they can point to all these previous instances to show NASCAR, the teams, and whoever else they can pull into a lawsuit knew this was an issue and did nothing. Punitive damages will be astronomical IF (God forbid) a tragedy happens with this history.
If/when this scenario happens...I hope the unfortunate party chooses their lawyer wisely
1651671697348.gif
 

Revman

You can't handle the truth!
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Messages
11,352
Points
883
Two things....Why is this not an issue in open wheel? .....and secondly, the penalties are completely stupid. This is a team sport. If the changer ***** up, suspend him/her, and the driver is already screwed by natural consequences. The crew chief had nothing to do with it.....and probably has little to do with the training, etc.
 

Formerjackman

Team Owner
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
4,377
Points
493
Excellent discussion about this on this week's Door Bumper Clear episode. Whether you agree or disagree with me on this issue, I recommend you listen to it. It comes up during the Spot on-Spot Off issue of the show.
 

wi_racefan

Team Owner
Joined
Aug 4, 2017
Messages
2,654
Points
323
Two things....Why is this not an issue in open wheel? .....and secondly, the penalties are completely stupid. This is a team sport. If the changer ***** up, suspend him/her, and the driver is already screwed by natural consequences. The crew chief had nothing to do with it.....and probably has little to do with the training, etc.
The whole idea of that penalty is to make it hurt the team so much that they make sure it doesn't happen. I think they need to switch the penalty to put some teeth in it. 100 pts and 5 playoff pts. Bet that would have some guys spending extra time to make sure everything is tight
 

KTMLew01

Team Owner
Joined
Jan 31, 2017
Messages
4,004
Points
443
I’m gonna alert our favorite @Formerjackman to this thread from a current Cup tire changer

I still believe a pressure transducer connected to a Picoscope on Crew Chiefs/assistants screen would show when a wheel is tight. The hose air pressure has to create a spike when the torque load hits. A cross-threaded nut nut would ramp up completely different. A missing nut, no torque. A crooked wheel=longer ramp than TIGHT wheel.

Or they could go to air jacks and it doesn't drop until all tire changers are done. Like in IndyCar.
 

Ol Smokie

Crew Chief
Joined
Jul 28, 2017
Messages
61
Points
93
I still believe a pressure transducer connected to a Picoscope on Crew Chiefs/assistants screen would show when a wheel is tight. The hose air pressure has to create a spike when the torque load hits. A cross-threaded nut nut would ramp up completely different. A missing nut, no torque. A crooked wheel=longer ramp than TIGHT wheel.

Or they could go to air jacks and it doesn't drop until all tire changers are done. Like in IndyCar.
I think that part of the problem is that the nut IS tight and probably at the right torque, but the splines are on top of each other, instead of engaged. As soon as the car hits the ground, they settle in, and the nut is loose.
 

KTMLew01

Team Owner
Joined
Jan 31, 2017
Messages
4,004
Points
443
I think that part of the problem is that the nut IS tight and probably at the right torque, but the splines are on top of each other, instead of engaged. As soon as the car hits the ground, they settle in, and the nut is loose.
No splines like a Sprint car/IndyCar. These are still a 5 pin drive hub basically like a 5 stud hub. The pins drive the wheel. Big nut clamps the wheel to hub. IF the wheel gets put on "crooked" and the nut tightens against the crooked pins, it WILL come off in couple laps when wheel gets lateral pressure on it. If the wheel isn't "on" any of the pins, no drive. Hub will spin in wheel until scrap metal comes out.
 

Jorge De Guzman

2017, 2021 Pick Em Champion 2018 Bold Predictor
Joined
Feb 13, 2017
Messages
12,404
Points
883
I still believe a pressure transducer connected to a Picoscope on Crew Chiefs/assistants screen would show when a wheel is tight. The hose air pressure has to create a spike when the torque load hits. A cross-threaded nut nut would ramp up completely different. A missing nut, no torque. A crooked wheel=longer ramp than TIGHT wheel.

Or they could go to air jacks and it doesn't drop until all tire changers are done. Like in IndyCar.
I'm sorry I had no idea what you just said.
 

Tony_K

Crew Chief
Joined
Jul 19, 2020
Messages
311
Points
73
Location
Oregon
I can't remember the exact high-tech contraption Formula 1 has but there is a green light and/or red light on the gun that lets them know the wheel nut is tight. Probably costs $10,000 or some ridiculous amount but they do a pit stop in a few seconds and seem to have no problems.

Indycar are doing a good job too but they've been doing it this way forever.
 

wi_racefan

Team Owner
Joined
Aug 4, 2017
Messages
2,654
Points
323
I can't remember the exact high-tech contraption Formula 1 has but there is a green light and/or red light on the gun that lets them know the wheel nut is tight. Probably costs $10,000 or some ridiculous amount but they do a pit stop in a few seconds and seem to have no problems.

Indycar are doing a good job too but they've been doing it this way forever.

Both F1 and Indy car use 4 dedicated tire changers, which I think helps a lot

If F1 has some light system, chances are it cost a lot more than 10k. I don't think anything in F1 is that cheap lol
 

aunty dive

Team Owner
Contributor
Joined
Mar 17, 2014
Messages
29,390
Points
883
No splines like a Sprint car/IndyCar. These are still a 5 pin drive hub basically like a 5 stud hub. The pins drive the wheel. Big nut clamps the wheel to hub. IF the wheel gets put on "crooked" and the nut tightens against the crooked pins, it WILL come off in couple laps when wheel gets lateral pressure on it. If the wheel isn't "on" any of the pins, no drive. Hub will spin in wheel until scrap metal comes out.
incorrect. ...

 

aunty dive

Team Owner
Contributor
Joined
Mar 17, 2014
Messages
29,390
Points
883
My happiness is not at issue here.

Perhaps if you were a little more graceful ...
 

aunty dive

Team Owner
Contributor
Joined
Mar 17, 2014
Messages
29,390
Points
883
You stuck your foot in your mouth. Again.

Quit laying that stuff off on other people.
 

hmmm298

Team Owner
Joined
Jul 24, 2020
Messages
882
Points
103
The whole idea of that penalty is to make it hurt the team so much that they make sure it doesn't happen. I think they need to switch the penalty to put some teeth in it. 100 pts and 5 playoff pts. Bet that would have some guys spending extra time to make sure everything is tight
Maybe 2nd offense means sit out aq race completely?
 

Revman

You can't handle the truth!
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Messages
11,352
Points
883
The whole idea of that penalty is to make it hurt the team so much that they make sure it doesn't happen. I think they need to switch the penalty to put some teeth in it. 100 pts and 5 playoff pts. Bet that would have some guys spending extra time to make sure everything is tight
I get it, but parking the driver for four weeks won't work because fans pay to see the drivers....but know what? CC's are personalities too, and I think fans get cheated with this kind of arbitrary punishment. How about parking the car for the remainder of the race? Four weeks for the CC is stupid. He didn't do the crime. Single race issue. Win as a team, **** up as a team.
 

StandOnIt

Farm Truck
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
57,545
Points
883
Location
yoooklahoma
Team members were laid off when they had 5 lugs if they left too many loose. I like the fact that they have teams by the short hairs myself. If they weren't whining the penalty wouldn't be strong enough. Besides, I laughed hilariously when Hambone's tire was out running him down pit road. Hell, they are only making two or three stops during a long race anyhow.
 
Top Bottom