Picked a Fine Time to Leave Me Loose Wheel.

KTMLew01

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I think we need a thread with a weekly total. Was it 2 or 3 this week?

If the pit crews can't figure it out, we'll shame them out of the sport.

WE HAVE THE POWER!


(and for those that have difficulty, mostly sarcasm) :punkrocke:booya::owquitit::dirtbike::dunce::dual9mm::moon::bazooka::cheers::biggrin::D
 
LJ7201

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Watching every race like
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Formerjackman

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No matter how you slice it, it is a (non) solution to a problem we didn't have in the first place. The tire changer himself said there is now no margin for error. This is progress? Everyone likes to think thinks this problem is just going to go away, but it won't, and at some point it's going to bite the sport in the ass and somebody is going to get hurt. Only some REALLY heads up driving saved the 16's tire from getting punted to God knows where. By this point in the season, the tire changers on the top teams have probably had literally hundreds of reps and yet we had at least three loose wheels on Monday. Does anybody REALLY think a few hundred or a thousand more reps are going to completely eliminate this? Even if it only happens five more times the rest of the season, that would likely be five more times than it happened in the last five years in the Cup Series.
 
Ford 222

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Sadly, attorneys are frothing at the mouth awaiting a spectator (preferable-More $) or competitor/team member to be injured as a result then they can point to all these previous instances to show NASCAR, the teams, and whoever else they can pull into a lawsuit knew this was an issue and did nothing. Punitive damages will be astronomical IF (God forbid) a tragedy happens with this history.
 
Jorge De Guzman

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Ford 222 said:
Sadly, attorneys are frothing at the mouth awaiting a spectator (preferable-More $) or competitor/team member to be injured as a result then they can point to all these previous instances to show NASCAR, the teams, and whoever else they can pull into a lawsuit knew this was an issue and did nothing. Punitive damages will be astronomical IF (God forbid) a tragedy happens with this history.
Click to expand...
If/when this scenario happens...I hope the unfortunate party chooses their lawyer wisely
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Revman

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Two things....Why is this not an issue in open wheel? .....and secondly, the penalties are completely stupid. This is a team sport. If the changer ***** up, suspend him/her, and the driver is already screwed by natural consequences. The crew chief had nothing to do with it.....and probably has little to do with the training, etc.
 
Formerjackman

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Excellent discussion about this on this week's Door Bumper Clear episode. Whether you agree or disagree with me on this issue, I recommend you listen to it. It comes up during the Spot on-Spot Off issue of the show.
 
wi_racefan

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Revman said:
Two things....Why is this not an issue in open wheel? .....and secondly, the penalties are completely stupid. This is a team sport. If the changer ***** up, suspend him/her, and the driver is already screwed by natural consequences. The crew chief had nothing to do with it.....and probably has little to do with the training, etc.
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The whole idea of that penalty is to make it hurt the team so much that they make sure it doesn't happen. I think they need to switch the penalty to put some teeth in it. 100 pts and 5 playoff pts. Bet that would have some guys spending extra time to make sure everything is tight
 
KTMLew01

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Jorge De Guzman said:
I’m gonna alert our favorite @Formerjackman to this thread from a current Cup tire changer
Click to expand...

I still believe a pressure transducer connected to a Picoscope on Crew Chiefs/assistants screen would show when a wheel is tight. The hose air pressure has to create a spike when the torque load hits. A cross-threaded nut nut would ramp up completely different. A missing nut, no torque. A crooked wheel=longer ramp than TIGHT wheel.

Or they could go to air jacks and it doesn't drop until all tire changers are done. Like in IndyCar.
 
Ol Smokie

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KTMLew01 said:
I still believe a pressure transducer connected to a Picoscope on Crew Chiefs/assistants screen would show when a wheel is tight. The hose air pressure has to create a spike when the torque load hits. A cross-threaded nut nut would ramp up completely different. A missing nut, no torque. A crooked wheel=longer ramp than TIGHT wheel.

Or they could go to air jacks and it doesn't drop until all tire changers are done. Like in IndyCar.
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I think that part of the problem is that the nut IS tight and probably at the right torque, but the splines are on top of each other, instead of engaged. As soon as the car hits the ground, they settle in, and the nut is loose.
 
KTMLew01

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Ol Smokie said:
I think that part of the problem is that the nut IS tight and probably at the right torque, but the splines are on top of each other, instead of engaged. As soon as the car hits the ground, they settle in, and the nut is loose.
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No splines like a Sprint car/IndyCar. These are still a 5 pin drive hub basically like a 5 stud hub. The pins drive the wheel. Big nut clamps the wheel to hub. IF the wheel gets put on "crooked" and the nut tightens against the crooked pins, it WILL come off in couple laps when wheel gets lateral pressure on it. If the wheel isn't "on" any of the pins, no drive. Hub will spin in wheel until scrap metal comes out.
 
Jorge De Guzman

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KTMLew01 said:
I still believe a pressure transducer connected to a Picoscope on Crew Chiefs/assistants screen would show when a wheel is tight. The hose air pressure has to create a spike when the torque load hits. A cross-threaded nut nut would ramp up completely different. A missing nut, no torque. A crooked wheel=longer ramp than TIGHT wheel.

Or they could go to air jacks and it doesn't drop until all tire changers are done. Like in IndyCar.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry I had no idea what you just said.
 
Tony_K

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I can't remember the exact high-tech contraption Formula 1 has but there is a green light and/or red light on the gun that lets them know the wheel nut is tight. Probably costs $10,000 or some ridiculous amount but they do a pit stop in a few seconds and seem to have no problems.

Indycar are doing a good job too but they've been doing it this way forever.
 
wi_racefan

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Tony_K said:
I can't remember the exact high-tech contraption Formula 1 has but there is a green light and/or red light on the gun that lets them know the wheel nut is tight. Probably costs $10,000 or some ridiculous amount but they do a pit stop in a few seconds and seem to have no problems.

Indycar are doing a good job too but they've been doing it this way forever.
Click to expand...

Both F1 and Indy car use 4 dedicated tire changers, which I think helps a lot

If F1 has some light system, chances are it cost a lot more than 10k. I don't think anything in F1 is that cheap lol
 
aunty dive

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KTMLew01 said:
No splines like a Sprint car/IndyCar. These are still a 5 pin drive hub basically like a 5 stud hub. The pins drive the wheel. Big nut clamps the wheel to hub. IF the wheel gets put on "crooked" and the nut tightens against the crooked pins, it WILL come off in couple laps when wheel gets lateral pressure on it. If the wheel isn't "on" any of the pins, no drive. Hub will spin in wheel until scrap metal comes out.
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incorrect. ...

buildingspeed.org

The Next Gen Wheel

DAYTONA: NASCAR levied two NextGen wheel-related penalties, but did not penalize teams from whom they confiscated wheels before the race. [...]
buildingspeed.org buildingspeed.org
 
aunty dive

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My happiness is not at issue here.

Perhaps if you were a little more graceful ...
 
aunty dive

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You stuck your foot in your mouth. Again.

Quit laying that stuff off on other people.
 
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hmmm298

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wi_racefan said:
The whole idea of that penalty is to make it hurt the team so much that they make sure it doesn't happen. I think they need to switch the penalty to put some teeth in it. 100 pts and 5 playoff pts. Bet that would have some guys spending extra time to make sure everything is tight
Click to expand...
Maybe 2nd offense means sit out aq race completely?
 
Revman

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wi_racefan said:
The whole idea of that penalty is to make it hurt the team so much that they make sure it doesn't happen. I think they need to switch the penalty to put some teeth in it. 100 pts and 5 playoff pts. Bet that would have some guys spending extra time to make sure everything is tight
Click to expand...
I get it, but parking the driver for four weeks won't work because fans pay to see the drivers....but know what? CC's are personalities too, and I think fans get cheated with this kind of arbitrary punishment. How about parking the car for the remainder of the race? Four weeks for the CC is stupid. He didn't do the crime. Single race issue. Win as a team, **** up as a team.
 
StandOnIt

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Team members were laid off when they had 5 lugs if they left too many loose. I like the fact that they have teams by the short hairs myself. If they weren't whining the penalty wouldn't be strong enough. Besides, I laughed hilariously when Hambone's tire was out running him down pit road. Hell, they are only making two or three stops during a long race anyhow.
 
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