Running under recommended Tire PSI

Spotter22

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Going in to Texas we will be running a different tire that was used previously at the All Star race. Goodyear has stiffened the sidewall which means a harder tire that probably wont lay down much rubber or wear which could make the racing suffer. Which brings me to my question for the board.



Should Goodyear continue to try to save the teams from themselves and construct new tires or let them die by the sword when they purposely ignore Goodyears minimum pressure recommendations along with aggressive camber settings? I'm of the opinion that if you make a conscious decision to ignore the recommendations and get aggressive its a choice you make and Goodyear should not make any changes nor take any blame. The ONLY time Goodyear should make changes is in the name of safety, like a tire that cant handle the loads, that kind of situation, not people monkeying around and purposely ignoring Goodyears data. I'd like to see us going in the direction of softer tires with more grip and more wear.
 

StandOnIt

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I don't care what pressures the teams run. When they blow out the tire from running too low pressures, the GoodYear man is right there on the spot before teams can blame it on the tire and the gerbils screech into full crisis mode.
 

Charlie Spencer

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When a tire blows, how can Goodyear definitively prove it was due to incorrect pressure and / or aggressive camber? How do we avoid a 'He said, she said' between Goodyear's PR and crew chiefs?
 

Spotter22

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When a tire blows, how can Goodyear definitively prove it was due to incorrect pressure and / or aggressive camber? How do we avoid a 'He said, she said' between Goodyear's PR and crew chiefs?
Sidewall deflection can be seen when you examine the tire, when you run the pressures that low you take a chance on damaging the sidewall and blowing the tire late in a run.
 

Charlie Spencer

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I don't care one way or the other, but I wish NASCAR would pick one. Either let the teams do what they want and make publicly blaming Goodyear a two-race suspension; or deliver the tires inflated to the recommended minimums, with valve stems that will only allow air to be added and not removed (if there is such a thing), and monkeying with them is a four-race vacation.
 

2 Sweet

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Ridiculous.

Goodyear is trying to protect their reputation, and it's hurting the on track product. Is there any example of a harder tire ever improving the racing? They are going the wrong way with this, IMO.
 

wi_racefan

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I'll take a soft tire with fall off over rocks. With a hard tire guys have to get aggressive with tire pressure and camber because you take tire conservation away from them. Give them a tire that falls off and they can manage handling throughout a run instead of having to other things to gain an advantage because old tires are as fast as new ones.

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Greg

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I don't know how you police the psi, it obviously increases with heat during the run so it would be hard to know the orignal starting point. They could assign an official to each team to enforce using the correct psi on every tire but that would be labor intensive and expensive, I cant see Nascar choosing that option.

I say let them suffer the consequences, I don't want to see them racing on rocks that never wear out. I like tires to wear enough to encourage short pitting.
 

Greg

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Would some type of bleeder be an option? As the tire heats up it would release some excess psi.

I think that's possible and if I remember correctly Ryan Newman and Richard Childress got penalized for doing that a few years ago.
If it is possible why not make it legal, that way you would exit the pits with enough psi for the tire sidewalls while still being able to release the excess as the tires heated up.
 

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Since they can't run a TPMS and "prove" teams are underinflating, we can just take Goodyear at their word when they inspect a tire and determine why it failed. Is that not good enough for them? Do they really feel the need to make their tires more durable to make themselves look better? If their rock hard tires hurt the quality of the racing, that's a much worse look than "lol stupid goodyear tire go flat" and quite frankly, detrimental to the sport.
 

Spotter22

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I don't care what pressures the teams run. When they blow out the tire from running too low pressures, the GoodYear man is right there on the spot before teams can blame it on the tire and the gerbils screech into full crisis mode.
So youre saying do not construct new tires.
 

Spotter22

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Would some type of bleeder be an option? As the tire heats up it would release some excess psi.

I think that's possible and if I remember correctly Ryan Newman and Richard Childress got penalized for doing that a few years ago.
If it is possible why not make it legal, that way you would exit the pits with enough psi for the tire sidewalls while still being able to release the excess as the tires heated up.
RCR actually were'nt running bleeders they were bleeding air through tiny holes in the tire IIRC and thats a no no.Problem with bleeders is you can set them any where you want to pop off so you know someones gonna get cute and run under minimum if its a scenario like a 35-40 lap run. Which if thats the case and they damage the bead and the tire deflates and they knock the wall down so be it in my opinion.
 

Spotter22

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I don't know how you police the psi, it obviously increases with heat during the run so it would be hard to know the orignal starting point. They could assign an official to each team to enforce using the correct psi on every tire but that would be labor intensive and expensive, I cant see Nascar choosing that option.

I say let them suffer the consequences, I don't want to see them racing on rocks that never wear out. I like tires to wear enough to encourage short pitting.
Yeah NASCAR is trying to get away from having so many officials during the race so you are right they wont do that and the video system cant monitor pressure settings. I'm with you, go ahead and FAAFO and its all on you. Lets get these tires softer, faster and made to wear. Its the cheapest thing in the sport to fix and like Aunty asked a year or so ago , "whats the most critical suspension part on the car" Answer - Its the tire.
 

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I would say geometry is critical also.
As far as tires go, look no further than Paul Walker to see how tires affect handling.
 

Spotter22

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I don't care one way or the other, but I wish NASCAR would pick one. Either let the teams do what they want and make publicly blaming Goodyear a two-race suspension; or deliver the tires inflated to the recommended minimums, with valve stems that will only allow air to be added and not removed (if there is such a thing), and monkeying with them is a four-race vacation.
I say let them do what they want and instead of a suspension if they blame GoodYear have a press conference and show the damage on the tire and put it back on them.
 

BobbyFord

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I'm not entirely familiar, did he have a tire separation?
Those tires were a decade old.
I’ve been on that street a few times, I’m familiar with the area. That Porsche race car would’ve had no problem making that corner at the speed the investigators estimated.
Those 10 year old tires had no grip.
 

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I say let them do what they want and instead of a suspension if they blame GoodYear have a press conference and show the damage on the tire and put it back on them.

Exactly. Hell, they can even allow someone from Goodyear to get in front of the camera during the race and explain what caused the tire failures if they so choose. Making the tires harder is NOT the solution.
 

wi_racefan

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I don't know how you police the psi, it obviously increases with heat during the run so it would be hard to know the orignal starting point. They could assign an official to each team to enforce using the correct psi on every tire but that would be labor intensive and expensive, I cant see Nascar choosing that option.

I say let them suffer the consequences, I don't want to see them racing on rocks that never wear out. I like tires to wear enough to encourage short pitting.
I know at least once in the past they did police tire pressure. They had an official in each pit with a gauge checking them. I can't remember what year or race, but it was something that's been done

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Spotter22

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Exactly. Hell, they can even allow someone from Goodyear to get in front of the camera during the race and explain what caused the tire failures if they so choose. Making the tires harder is NOT the solution.
I believe I heard they are gonna run the Tire Dragon to try to put some rubber in the track.
 

Spotter22

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I know at least once in the past they did police tire pressure. They had an official in each pit with a gauge checking them. I can't remember what year or race, but it was something that's been done

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I'm not familiar with that. I know they used to have an official checking them when you went through tech but that was when we had height requirements. I've never seen them checking pressures behind the wall because its not against the rules to run under.
 

wi_racefan

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I'm not familiar with that. I know they used to have an official checking them when you went through tech but that was when we had height requirements. I've never seen them checking pressures behind the wall because its not against the rules to run under.

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Spotter22

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So in 2014 they had an official at every pit checking pressure on the right front before it went on the next pit stop? I still dont recall that but anyway we arent gonna see that again imho
 

aunty dive

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Formula 1 checked for a while after a spate of tire failures.

 

wi_racefan

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So in 2014 they had an official at every pit checking pressure on the right front before it went on the next pit stop? I still dont recall that but anyway we arent gonna see that again imho
I remember watching the race and they did but either way IMO nothing is off the table. Just because they say they won't be checking things doesn't mean they won't change their minds. Look at the lug nuts they said they weren't going to be checking them after the implementation of the new system. Turns out they changed their minds and we got to see the fines every week for a missing lug.

In all my years of watching nascar the one thing I've learned is that nascar will make up whatever rules they want as they go along and then possibly change how it's enforced mid race

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Spotter22

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I remember watching the race and they did but either way IMO nothing is off the table. Just because they say they won't be checking things doesn't mean they won't change their minds. Look at the lug nuts they said they weren't going to be checking them after the implementation of the new system. Turns out they changed their minds and we got to see the fines every week for a missing lug.

In all my years of watching nascar the one thing I've learned is that nascar will make up whatever rules they want as they go along and then possibly change how it's enforced mid race

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They didnt check lug nuts, when a tire is rolling down the track thats pretty obvious and there is a written rule about loose tires. What rule have they changed or enforced differently from the way its written mid race?
 

wi_racefan

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They didnt check lug nuts, when a tire is rolling down the track thats pretty obvious and there is a written rule about loose tires. What rule have they changed or enforced differently from the way its written mid race?
Did you not read the penalty report every week? Tons of teams got hammered in the cup series last year, heck Chase even got DQ for too many loose lugs post race.

As far as changes during a race how about the #12 during the all star race? Or the 100% rule, that's the biggest joke. Last week we had cars randomly dropping out of the race who's teammates needed the positions.

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Spotter22

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Did you not read the penalty report every week? Tons of teams got hammered in the cup series last year, heck Chase even got DQ for too many loose lugs post race.

As far as changes during a race how about the #12 during the all star race? Or the 100% rule, that's the biggest joke. Last week we had cars randomly dropping out of the race who's teammates needed the positions.

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This year bud, they dont check lugs this year. We had cars dropping out, who? Blaney situation wasnt a rule change, NASCAR threw the yellow quickly and Blaney made the mistake of dropping his net. They worked it out.
 

wi_racefan

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This year bud, they dont check lugs this year. We had cars dropping out, who? Blaney situation wasnt a rule change, NASCAR threw the yellow quickly and Blaney made the mistake of dropping his net. They worked it out.
The 23 magically had another failure 4 laps before he would have passed the 18. The 22 had been riding around then all of a sudden it was real close on points with the 12 making it and suddenly they had to retire.....

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Mispeedway15

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I don't know how you police the psi, it obviously increases with heat during the run so it would be hard to know the orignal starting point. They could assign an official to each team to enforce using the correct psi on every tire but that would be labor intensive and expensive, I cant see Nascar choosing that option.

I say let them suffer the consequences, I don't want to see them racing on rocks that never wear out. I like tires to wear enough to encourage short pitting.
The tire polices itself by blowing :whoopee:
 
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