Running under recommended Tire PSI

Formerjackman said:
Well, lets have a list of all the cars that 100% legal and running 100% within recommended spec.
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Reading comprehension again? Where did I say 100% legal and btw running under minimum pressure and using aggressive camber settings isnt illegal. Its stupid, but not illegal.
 
Spotter22 said:
Reading comprehension again? Where did I say 100% legal and btw running under minimum pressure and using aggressive camber settings isnt illegal. Its stupid, but not illegal.
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You're making an assumption that just because some teams haven't had a problem, they were at or close to the recommended spec. They may just be the guys that figured out how to make it work. I would venture to say that if there are any FAST teams that aren't pushing it on tire pressures and camber, they probably doing something else of questionable legality to make up for it. With the current box as tight as it is, there aren't many ways to make up speed without walking the tightrope.
 
Formerjackman said:
You're making an assumption that just because some teams haven't had a problem, they were at or close to the recommended spec. They may just be the guys that figured out how to make it work. I would venture to say that if there are any FAST teams that aren't pushing it on tire pressures and camber, they probably doing something else of questionable legality to make up for it. With the current box as tight as it is, there aren't many ways to make up speed without walking the tightrope.
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I'm stating they are at minimum or very close and slightly more conservative on camber.
 
wi_racefan said:
IMO all of the above. Some guys manage equipment better than others, the junk the put on the tracks matter, the tire matters....
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Thats a interesting point possibly, is there any relation to traction compound compared to tracks that have blow out issues? Does goodyear take the compound into consideration, I would guess not as the decision to apply it is sometimes last minute and tires are already made
 
Spotter22 said:
I'm stating they are at minimum or very close and slightly more conservative on camber.
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Well well. ;)

On Sunday, the race was won by Tyler Reddick, and crew chief Randall Burnett indicated that he got as close to the line as he conservatively could without crossing it.

"We came into this race a little conservative," Burnett said. "We got bit at Kansas the other week with one. I think we've had four tires go down this year while leading the race. R.C. (Richard Childress) talked to me about it and said, Make sure you keep some air in the tires today. I tried to do that. A little bit more conservative approach this week. It's a fine line. Everybody knows the speed, pushing the limits of the tires."
 
Spotter22 said:
Well well. ;)

On Sunday, the race was won by Tyler Reddick, and crew chief Randall Burnett indicated that he got as close to the line as he conservatively could without crossing it.

"We came into this race a little conservative," Burnett said. "We got bit at Kansas the other week with one. I think we've had four tires go down this year while leading the race. R.C. (Richard Childress) talked to me about it and said, Make sure you keep some air in the tires today. I tried to do that. A little bit more conservative approach this week. It's a fine line. Everybody knows the speed, pushing the limits of the tires."
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All these statements are still completely useless. "more conservative" compared to what? Todd Gordon was on the late shift talking about this Monday and basically came out and said no one runs the recommended psi and/or very conservative camber values because if they do they'll be 35th every week (his words, not mine).

I'd be willing to bet they still we're not at the recommended Goodyear psi.
 
wi_racefan said:
All these statements are still completely useless. "more conservative" compared to what? Todd Gordon was on the late shift talking about this Monday and basically came out and said no one runs the recommended psi and/or very conservative camber values because if they do they'll be 35th every week (his words, not mine).

I'd be willing to bet they still we're not at the recommended Goodyear psi.
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Compared to what he what he was doing when he had tire problems and Todd Gordon is wrong.
 
This week on stacking pennies was the first actual numbers I heard of what guys were running for pressures. Corey said from everything he's heard a lot of teams were running 8-9 psi under the Goodyear recommendation. Obviously as tires get hot they build pressure and end up above that Goodyear recommendation.

My guess is the guys that were "conservative" on pressures were more in the area of 3-5 psi under recommendations. Doesn't sound like anyone, at least yet, starts at or above the recommendations due to pressure gain throughout a run.

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wi_racefan said:
This week on stacking pennies was the first actual numbers I heard of what guys were running for pressures. Corey said from everything he's heard a lot of teams were running 8-9 psi under the Goodyear recommendation. Obviously as tires get hot they build pressure and end up above that Goodyear recommendation.

My guess is the guys that were "conservative" on pressures were more in the area of 3-5 psi under recommendations. Doesn't sound like anyone, at least yet, starts at or above the recommendations due to pressure gain throughout a run.

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I doubt anyone starts at recommended pressure. Like anything else you try to gain an advantage anywhere you can because the box is so tight on this car and that's why you have some going well below with the hope that they have better toe and camber settings that can handle it.
 
Goodyear has tire testing equipment that can apply a variety of loads, including side loads while the tire rotates. They should have track data to work with too. They probably have a pretty good idea how the tires will hold up at any given track. Goodyear makes recommendations for tire pressure and suspension settings but teams can deviate from those recommendations if they want. (I worked for a company that made tire testing equipment). If Goodyear had a problem with their tires I expect they will figure out what caused it and make changes to their process but they can't fix how teams set their cars up.
 
Zerkfitting said:
Goodyear has tire testing equipment that can apply a variety of loads, including side loads while the tire rotates. They should have track data to work with too. They probably have a pretty good idea how the tires will hold up at any given track. Goodyear makes recommendations for tire pressure and suspension settings but teams can deviate from those recommendations if they want. (I worked for a company that made tire testing equipment). If Goodyear had a problem with their tires I expect they will figure out what caused it and make changes to their process but they can't fix how teams set their cars up.
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For sure,
The beans were spilled so to speak shortly after the Texas race by Rodney Childers. Because of the two different ends of the Texas track, teams had found that getting the rear diffuser as close to the track as possible would help the original faster turns 3 and 4 give the fastest speeds overall. Running the tires with less air got the diffuser lower to the track. Many teams went too low with the tire pressures and suffered the consequences. Of course what Goodyear didn't want to happen, fans who blame the tire instead of the crew chief's tire settings happened.

Note:
It was Goodyear's fault at Indianapolis. The diamond cut surface of Indy ripped up their softer tire compound.
 
Going to the never flat solid rubber tires that do not require air is the way to go for Nascar. I have a set on my hand trucks and they put a stop to getting flats and rutting out under a load when it matters the most. Eliminating the cold tire air pressure guessing game allows me to move heavy objects with confidence during all of the job stages.

They have them on the commercial big lawn mowers at the local John Deere dealership too and they are highly desired. The biggest problem I have is at family reunions with my brother and cousins arguing about who should get my no flat tires if I am the first to go. They have even written me some letters with the birthday cards they send making their individual cases for why they are the most deserving recipient.

There would still be tire wear with them during the races. Teams would just need to figure out how far they can run them to down to the rims or to the nub.
They would also essentially change the gear ratios and a set of nubs would loose more and more straightaway speed as the overall circumference decreasd.

Nascar could also ration the tires forcing teams to manage the tires and to even save some worn down tires to run on the left side for the stagger.

So many natural implications without having to worry about the dreaded flat tires.
 
Greg said:
Going to the never flat solid rubber tires that do not require air is the way to go for Nascar. I have a set on my hand trucks and they put a stop to getting flats and rutting out under a load when it matters the most. Eliminating the cold tire air pressure guessing game allows me to move heavy objects with confidence during all of the job stages.

They have them on the commercial big lawn mowers at the local John Deere dealership too and they are highly desired. The biggest problem I have is at family reunions with my brother and cousins arguing about who should get my no flat tires if I am the first to go. They have even written me some letters with the birthday cards they send making their individual cases for why they are the most deserving recipient.

There would still be tire wear with them during the races. Teams would just need to figure out how far they can run them to down to the rims or to the nub.
They would also essentially change the gear ratios and a set of nubs would loose more and more straightaway speed as the overall circumference decreasd.

Nascar could also ration the tires forcing teams to manage the tires and to even save some worn down tires to run on the left side for the stagger.

So many natural implications without having to worry about the dreaded flat tires.
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Cool in theory but would never work. A solid tire doesn't dissipate heat and quickly starts to thermally fail. I watched a whole thing on one of those channels about tires and solid tires for anything high speed is a no go. Not to mention the mass would be huge

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wi_racefan said:
Cool in theory but would never work. A solid tire doesn't dissipate heat and quickly starts to thermally fail. I watched a whole thing on one of those channels about tires and solid tires for anything high speed is a no go. Not to mention the mass would be huge

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My group of engineers at the the Cooter Johnsons Juniors The IIIs and Dingleberries Racing Motorsports Engineering Enterprises Associates Racing Incorporateds Alliance has studied rubber intensely for many years.

Our rubber studies didnt just start with the racing. It goes back to the orignal mechanical sheep rentals and replaceable sheep parts buisness that is still profitable enough to let us pursue racing.

The rental buisness demands our engineers to be experts at developing rubber parts and supplies that are capable of withstanding multiple users.
The racing demands on rubber is easy in comparison.
 
Greg said:
My group of engineers at the the Cooter Johnsons Juniors The IIIs and Dingleberries Racing Motorsports Engineering Enterprises Associates Racing Incorporateds Alliance has studied rubber intensely for many years.

Our rubber studies didnt just start with the racing. It goes back to the orignal mechanical sheep rentals and replaceable parts buisness that is still profitable enough to let us pursue racing.

The rental buisness demands our engineers to be experts at developing rubber parts and supplies that are capable of withstanding multiple users.
The racing demands on rubber is easy in comparison.
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I'm looking forward to the new steel reinforced tire from CJJ&I&DRMEARIA. The bias ply radial with steel reinforced belts is an entirely new design exclusive from CJJ&I&DRMEARIA.
 
Greg said:
I don't know how you police the psi, it obviously increases with heat during the run so it would be hard to know the orignal starting point. They could assign an official to each team to enforce using the correct psi on every tire but that would be labor intensive and expensive, I cant see Nascar choosing that option.
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Maybe they could use tire pressure monitoring systems like the ones that have been in street cars for decades now. But instead of the tire pressure sensors only transmitting to a display for the driver, the data is sent to a computer that NASCAR monitors. NASCAR wouldn't even need to know each individual tire pressure for every car - the computer program could be set to compare readings to Goodyear's minimum recommended pressures and then only tattle on teams that have one or more tire pressures too low.

NASCAR would have to make sure that tires sitting in the pits were stored in the shade, until right before the car comes to its pit, otherwise sunlight could jack up the readings. NASCAR would have to capture the readings before cars exited pit road and got up to speed. But then NASCAR could black flag cars that the system found low on pressure.

Of course, there probably would be times where this system didn't work right and it could cause black flags on legal cars. Teams would be upset to be monitored, and some would suspect that their pressure data would be leaked to other teams. So this idea is not foolproof nor perfect... but it is a way to police the psi by knowing the original starting point.
 
No blown tires that I can recall at Dega Cup race (although one cut tire). What is an explanation for that given that at Bristol and Texas they were blowing tires every 30 laps or so?
 
Tumbleweed said:
No blown tires that I can recall at Dega Cup race (although one cut tire). What is an explanation for that given that at Bristol and Texas they were blowing tires every 30 laps or so?
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Has Dega ever been known for being rough on tires?

Cameras showed the RF tire that came off of Jones' 43 car at one point, and the inner portion of the tread was down to the cords
 
2 Sweet said:
Has Dega ever been known for being rough on tires?

Cameras showed the RF tire that came off of Jones' 43 car at one point, and the inner portion of the tread was down to the cords
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Yes, there was heavy tire wear in each of the series at Dega but tires weren't letting go right and left as they had been in the previous two races. You are right though, Dega never has really been that hard on tires I guess.

I am not comfortable with the low profile tires in general and haven't been all season. They just intuitively seem to me to be a higher risk type of tire for NASCAR racing but I have no science with which to back that up. It wouldn't surprise me at all if after lots of study, NASCAR went back to the old style wheels and tires with the higher profiles, multiple lug nuts and in some cases, inner liners once more.

I'm not sure if that would even be possible with the new rear suspensions in the new car however, even if they did want to make the change.
 
gone said:
Maybe they could use tire pressure monitoring systems like the ones that have been in street cars for decades now. But instead of the tire pressure sensors only transmitting to a display for the driver, the data is sent to a computer that NASCAR monitors. NASCAR wouldn't even need to know each individual tire pressure for every car - the computer program could be set to compare readings to Goodyear's minimum recommended pressures and then only tattle on teams that have one or more tire pressures too low.

NASCAR would have to make sure that tires sitting in the pits were stored in the shade, until right before the car comes to its pit, otherwise sunlight could jack up the readings. NASCAR would have to capture the readings before cars exited pit road and got up to speed. But then NASCAR could black flag cars that the system found low on pressure.

Of course, there probably would be times where this system didn't work right and it could cause black flags on legal cars. Teams would be upset to be monitored, and some would suspect that their pressure data would be leaked to other teams. So this idea is not foolproof nor perfect... but it is a way to police the psi by knowing the original starting point.
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No need to reinvent this 18" wheel. Other series have monitored pressure for years. Adopt their technologies and practices.
 
Cole Custer’s ankle appears to be under-inflated. Or it’s a bias ply.



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Was listening to Todd Gordon and he said during his days at penske they did a lot of testing with tire pressure monitoring. Biggest problem they had was they couldn't get them to last due to high temps from brake heat. Other issue was getting it to work with the multiple sets of tires that would be used during a race.

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wi_racefan said:
Was listening to Todd Gordon and he said during his days at penske they did a lot of testing with tire pressure monitoring. Biggest problem they had was they couldn't get them to last due to high temps from brake heat. Other issue was getting it to work with the multiple sets of tires that would be used during a race.

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Doubt that is much of a factor with the new car.
 
wi_racefan said:
Well he said it would still be an issue even with he new 18" wheel. His words not mine

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I'll go with what Chad Knaus says, besides they are huge in comparison to the old car

The Next Gen cars boast a 25% increase in stopping power. Vice President of Hendrick Motorsports, Chas Knaus, called the new brake system “really great”.


The seven-time NASCAR Cup winning crew chief added that the larger rotors make a world of difference. They allow “the driver to slow the car down without generating a lot of heat”.
outsider.com

NASCAR: Here's the Biggest Difference Between Next Gen and Older Cars

With the start of the 2022 season came NASCAR's Next Gen stock car - here's the biggest difference with the newest model.
outsider.com outsider.com
 
StandOnIt said:
I'll go with what Chad Knaus says, besides they are huge in comparison to the old car

The Next Gen cars boast a 25% increase in stopping power. Vice President of Hendrick Motorsports, Chas Knaus, called the new brake system “really great”.


The seven-time NASCAR Cup winning crew chief added that the larger rotors make a world of difference. They allow “the driver to slow the car down without generating a lot of heat”.
outsider.com

NASCAR: Here's the Biggest Difference Between Next Gen and Older Cars

With the start of the 2022 season came NASCAR's Next Gen stock car - here's the biggest difference with the newest model.
outsider.com outsider.com
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Remember when TV used to make a huge deal seeing rotors glow orange? Doesnt seem to be much of an issue anymore...A real boon for the short tracks/road courses where they use a lot of brake
 
wi_racefan said:
Was listening to Todd Gordon and he said during his days at penske they did a lot of testing with tire pressure monitoring. Biggest problem they had was they couldn't get them to last due to high temps from brake heat. Other issue was getting it to work with the multiple sets of tires that would be used during a race.
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A group of engineers threw a dart and hit a football field-sized rock travelling at 34,000 mph approx 7 million miles from home.
 
DanicaFreak said:
Remember when TV used to make a huge deal seeing rotors glow orange? Doesnt seem to be much of an issue anymore...A real boon for the short tracks/road courses where they use a lot of brake
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Yeah, that is because it isn't an issue. The brakes are 25% larger, the car is designed to get more air to the brakes and they aren't going to melt the bead of the tire with the heat.
 
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