Running under recommended Tire PSI

wi_racefan said:
The 23 magically had another failure 4 laps before he would have passed the 18. The 22 had been riding around then all of a sudden it was real close on points with the 12 making it and suddenly they had to retire.....

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It was clever how the 23 made those seals blow out, right?
 
Spotter22 said:
It was clever how the 23 made those seals blow out, right?
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If I remember correctly he failed a seal, they fixed it, Kyle blew up, the 23 was running and would have passed the 18, then another failure.....

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wi_racefan said:
I'll take a soft tire with fall off over rocks. With a hard tire guys have to get aggressive with tire pressure and camber because you take tire conservation away from them. Give them a tire that falls off and they can manage handling throughout a run instead of having to other things to gain an advantage because old tires are as fast as new ones.

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This has been a thing for a few years, but cup racing without tire wear still feels wrong

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wi_racefan said:
If I remember correctly he failed a seal, they fixed it, Kyle blew up, the 23 was running and would have passed the 18, then another failure.....

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Was Truex in on the scheme? Also, can you tell me what they were trying to accomplish?
 
Spotter22 said:
Was Truex in on the scheme? Also, can you tell me what they were trying to accomplish?
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Do you actually watch the races? Depending at which point in time the #18 was back and forth with being above the cutoff. If the #23 ran a handful of additional laps he would have passed the #18 hurting his chances of making the playoffs.

I'm not making this stuff up. Listen to DBC this week they discussed it

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wi_racefan said:
Do you actually watch the races? Depending at which point in time the #18 was back and forth with being above the cutoff. If the #23 ran a handful of additional laps he would have passed the #18 hurting his chances of making the playoffs.

I'm not making this stuff up. Listen to DBC this week they discussed it

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Just because something appears one way doesn't mean that's actually what's happening.

DBC, like most for-profit media presentations, makes money based on the number of content consumers they can attract and retain, not on the accuracy of what they present.
 
BobbyFord said:
Not trying to derail the thread, just showing how important tires are.
www.thedrive.com

The Truth Behind What Caused Paul Walker's Fatal Crash

The likely cause is so mundane we never talk about it. Let's change that.
www.thedrive.com www.thedrive.com
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When I finally changed the tires on my Chevelle a couple of years ago, they were 31 years old and were functioning fine. They had recently run a 400 mile leg of Hot Rod Power Tour, about 100 miles of it in a driving rain storm. Always stored inside, no dry rotting or cracks. I'm sure they were hard as hockey pucks, but they were functioning just fine. They probably had less than 7500 miles on them, as the car was out of service for many of those 31 years.
 
Formerjackman said:
I'd like to see them go in the direction of LESS grip and more wear. High corner speeds are killing good racing, and I like watching drivers swatting flies and hanging out the right rear.
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I'm not a tire guy but is that possible? A softer tire would initially have more grip, but wear faster.

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wi_racefan said:
Do you actually watch the races? Depending at which point in time the #18 was back and forth with being above the cutoff. If the #23 ran a handful of additional laps he would have passed the #18 hurting his chances of making the playoffs.

I'm not making this stuff up. Listen to DBC this week they discussed it

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When the 23 blew the seals why didnt he just park it? Had a great excuse to do so and I watch every race and could give crap what Brett and Freddie say, its a show. For this stuff to be true 23XI and Gibbs would have to be in Cahoots and like I said above as soon as Ty had trouble it was a perfect opportunity to call it a night. I dont buy it.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Just because something appears one way doesn't mean that's actually what's happening.

DBC, like most for-profit media presentations, makes money based on the number of content consumers they can attract and retain, not on the accuracy of what they present.
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EXACTLY
 
Formerjackman said:
I'd like to see them go in the direction of LESS grip and more wear. High corner speeds are killing good racing, and I like watching drivers swatting flies and hanging out the right rear.
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We want the same thing but softer tires obviously will have more grip but wear faster than a hard tire will. Softer tires will falloff quicker and give us the action we are looking for. I'd also like to see them come up with a tire and a formula where we can reduce the number of sets without jeopardizing safety.
 
Spotter22 said:
We want the same thing but softer tires obviously will have more grip but wear faster than a hard tire will. Softer tires will falloff quicker and give us the action we are looking for. I'd also like to see them come up with a tire and a formula where we can reduce the number of sets without jeopardizing safety.
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I'm not a compound expert either, but it seems like you could make a tire soft enough to wear, but with a compound that would have a low friction number. As I said before, Goodyear has already built a street tire that was soft enough to wear out prematurely yet have no wet weather grip. It was the 1980's Eagle GT. The one issue I have with limiting sets of tires is that 36 cars all running around on worn tires is only slightly better than 36 all on new tires. Having enough sets that teams will take a chance on losing track position for the speed of new tires makes the racing that much better. Dale Jr. brought up a great point this week on the Download. If you wanted better racing for stock cars on ovals, going to a wider tire with a short sidewall is the LAST thing you would do. Honestly, radial tires might be the worst thing that ever happened to short track racing.
 
Formerjackman said:
I'm not a compound expert either, but it seems like you could make a tire soft enough to wear, but with a compound that would have a low friction number. As I said before, Goodyear has already built a street tire that was soft enough to wear out prematurely yet have no wet weather grip. It was the 1980's Eagle GT. The one issue I have with limiting sets of tires is that 36 cars all running around on worn tires is only slightly better than 36 all on new tires. Having enough sets that teams will take a chance on losing track position for the speed of new tires makes the racing that much better. Dale Jr. brought up a great point this week on the Download. If you wanted better racing for stock cars on ovals, going to a wider tire with a short sidewall is the LAST thing you would do. Honestly, radial tires might be the worst thing that ever happened to short track racing.
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I honestly dont know why they went away from the bias ply. Ok, yes I do but Goodyear selling radial street tires and their marketing strategies shouldnt interfere with what NASCAR does at the track. Everybody hated those damn things Including Earnhardt who was very vocal against them
 
Formerjackman said:
I'm not a compound expert either, but it seems like you could make a tire soft enough to wear, but with a compound that would have a low friction number. As I said before, Goodyear has already built a street tire that was soft enough to wear out prematurely yet have no wet weather grip. It was the 1980's Eagle GT. The one issue I have with limiting sets of tires is that 36 cars all running around on worn tires is only slightly better than 36 all on new tires. Having enough sets that teams will take a chance on losing track position for the speed of new tires makes the racing that much better. Dale Jr. brought up a great point this week on the Download. If you wanted better racing for stock cars on ovals, going to a wider tire with a short sidewall is the LAST thing you would do. Honestly, radial tires might be the worst thing that ever happened to short track racing.
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Hoosier did it. But they were way too smart to use the better tires.$$$$$$$$.
 
Spotter22 said:
We want the same thing but softer tires obviously will have more grip but wear faster than a hard tire will. Softer tires will falloff quicker and give us the action we are looking for. I'd also like to see them come up with a tire and a formula where we can reduce the number of sets without jeopardizing safety.
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I’ve always said we need multiple compounds like the other major series. A soft/hard combination on a weekly basis would be awesome for the sport in my opinion. Too many guys at Bristol were able to gain position and hold it simply by not pitting until they’re ready to blow. If the recent pitters had a faster/soft compound to use, they would’ve blown by the folks staying out on the track
 
Spotter22 said:
I honestly dont know why they went away from the bias ply. Ok, yes I do but Goodyear selling radial street tires and their marketing strategies shouldnt interfere with what NASCAR does at the track. Everybody hated those damn things Including Earnhardt who was very vocal against them
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One of the great things about Hoosier is they don't have any retail image to protect, so as long as the sanctioning bodies that mandate their tires are pleased with the product, it doesn't really matter what John Q. Public thinks. We ran bias ply tires on the short tracks with ARCA at least through 2003, can't really say how long after that. One of the other benefits of the bias ply tire, is they were massively cheaper than the radials we had to run on the speedways. If I recall they were like $400 a set versus $1600 a set. A few of the radial compounds were treacherously hard when new and cold, but after you knocked the shine off and got a little heat in them, they were fine. In my years there, you just didn't see much tire issues at all. The tires would lose a lot of speed, but you could run them forever, and some did.
 
Formerjackman said:
One of the great things about Hoosier is they don't have any retail image to protect, so as long as the sanctioning bodies that mandate their tires are pleased with the product, it doesn't really matter what John Q. Public thinks. We ran bias ply tires on the short tracks with ARCA at least through 2003, can't really say how long after that. One of the other benefits of the bias ply tire, is they were massively cheaper than the radials we had to run on the speedways. If I recall they were like $400 a set versus $1600 a set. A few of the radial compounds were treacherously hard when new and cold, but after you knocked the shine off and got a little heat in them, they were fine. In my years there, you just didn't see much tire issues at all. The tires would lose a lot of speed, but you could run them forever, and some did.
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That's also probably the reason they're not in nascars top series. Without the consumer side they don't have the money to be the "official tire of nascar"

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wi_racefan said:
That's also probably the reason they're not in nascars top series. Without the consumer side they don't have the money to be the "official tire of nascar"

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Possibly. My thought on that is if EVERY move you make is based on the revenue stream it provides, the sport will never be what it could be.
 
Hoosier has their hands full fulfilling current asphalt and dirt tire supply commitments.

Supply chain issues further compound their problems.

NASCAR is fortunate to have an excellent working relationship with a committed partner, IMO.

Dirt cars and bicycles still use bias ply tires.
 
Goodyear has one job and one job only.
Make a consistent tire per Nascar wishes.
The rest is on the teams. Goodluck and Goodnite.
 
wi_racefan said:
I guess in his defense (good or bad) if you have a 600 race history of knowing that Goodyear is very conservative on tire psi recommendations you would think you would be ok if you stayed within your previous margin
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So ... just keep on cheating the Goodyear numbers?

Crew chiefs don’t pay the crash damage bills.
 
aunty dive said:
So ... just keep on cheating the Goodyear numbers?

Crew chiefs don’t pay the crash damage bills.
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And crew chiefs who don't push the margins usually don't win and don't have their jobs very long. Rodney didn't get to make 600 crew chief starts by being a choir boy. To paraphrase Dale Jr. "If you are not pushing everything to the absolute limit and a little beyond, I don't want you as my crew chief" and Chad Knaus relating a comment Alan Gustafson made to him; "Being a winning crew chief means ALWAYS being a little bit uncomfortable with what you have put on the car."
 
Formerjackman said:
And crew chiefs who don't push the margins usually don't win and don't have their jobs very long. Rodney didn't get to make 600 crew chief starts by being a choir boy. To paraphrase Dale Jr. "If you are not pushing everything to the absolute limit and a little beyond, I don't want you as my crew chief" and Chad Knaus relating a comment Alan Gustafson made to him; "Being a winning crew chief means ALWAYS being a little bit uncomfortable with what you have put on the car."
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Obviously, the cheat number for the 18” low aspect ratio tires now in use is different than the numbers Rodney used in the past.

I humbly recommend 0 as the number to use.
 
aunty dive said:
Obviously, the cheat number for the 18” low aspect ratio tires now in use is different than the numbers Rodney used in the past.

I humbly recommend 0 as the number to use.
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And your recommendation is based on what? None of us know what how much under teams that had problems were running under. Heck I'd be surprised if the guys that didn't have problems were at the recommended number. If you run everything safe you won't even stay on the lead lap
 
wi_racefan said:
And your recommendation is based on what? None of us know what how much under teams that had problems were running under. Heck I'd be surprised if the guys that didn't have problems were at the recommended number. If you run everything safe you won't even stay on the lead lap
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My number is based precisely on the left / right side cold air pressure figure recommended by the tire manufacturer.

Easily monitored and will reduce the number of cars slugging the wall due to tire failure.

Or do you prefer that?
 
Formerjackman said:
And crew chiefs who don't push the margins usually don't win and don't have their jobs very long. Rodney didn't get to make 600 crew chief starts by being a choir boy. To paraphrase Dale Jr. "If you are not pushing everything to the absolute limit and a little beyond, I don't want you as my crew chief" and Chad Knaus relating a comment Alan Gustafson made to him; "Being a winning crew chief means ALWAYS being a little bit uncomfortable with what you have put on the car."
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Why are you stating the obvious? Everyone knows you push the envelope but when things unfold right before your eyes week after week and you continue to push said envelope you get what you get. Evidently several crew chiefs have figured it out and are still running upfront and winning without destroying the car.
 
wi_racefan said:
And your recommendation is based on what? None of us know what how much under teams that had problems were running under. Heck I'd be surprised if the guys that didn't have problems were at the recommended number. If you run everything safe you won't even stay on the lead lap
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100% False
 
Spotter22 said:
Why are you stating the obvious? Everyone knows you push the envelope but when things unfold right before your eyes week after week and you continue to push said envelope you get what you get. Evidently several crew chiefs have figured it out and are still running upfront and winning without destroying the car.
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The million dollar question is "how much is too much, and does it very by driver, by tire, by track condition?" What may be perfectly fine in one situation may get you burnt somewhere else. Take the 9 for example. They had ZERO tire issues at Bristol and nearly won. Went to Texas and knocked the wall down. Were they doing the same thing, something different? Only a handful of guys know, and they aren't talking.
 
Formerjackman said:
The million dollar question is "how much is too much, and does it very by driver, by tire, by track condition?" What may be perfectly fine in one situation may get you burnt somewhere else. Take the 9 for example. They had ZERO tire issues at Bristol and nearly won. Went to Texas and knocked the wall down. Were they doing the same thing, something different? Only a handful of guys know, and they aren't talking.
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They know, but greed and hope over rides good judgement.
 
Formerjackman said:
The million dollar question is "how much is too much, and does it very by driver, by tire, by track condition?" What may be perfectly fine in one situation may get you burnt somewhere else. Take the 9 for example. They had ZERO tire issues at Bristol and nearly won. Went to Texas and knocked the wall down. Were they doing the same thing, something different? Only a handful of guys know, and they aren't talking.
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IMO all of the above. Some guys manage equipment better than others, the junk the put on the tracks matter, the tire matters....
 
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