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NJJammer

NJJammer

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http://www.philly.com/philly/sports..._Raceway_seeking_to_attract_younger_fans.html

Attendance has plummeted over the last decade, since the economic recession of 2008 "knocked the breath out of us," in Tatoian's words. His own track has seen turnout fall from as high as 135,000 to 85,000 in 2012, after which NASCAR stopped releasing attendance figures. Over the last three years, Dover has removed 50,000 seats from the grandstand to reflect shrinking audiences, a process Tatoian calls "right-sizing."

Dover Motorsports - one of the few public companies that operate tracks - reported admissions revenue of $6.9 million in 2016, down 81 percent from $37.2 million in 2005, with marginal drops every year. After piling up $91 million in total revenue in 2005, the company brought in just $45.9 million last year, the main source being its $31 million share of NASCAR's broadcasting agreement.
 
NJJammer said:
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports..._Raceway_seeking_to_attract_younger_fans.html

Attendance has plummeted over the last decade, since the economic recession of 2008 "knocked the breath out of us," in Tatoian's words. His own track has seen turnout fall from as high as 135,000 to 85,000 in 2012, after which NASCAR stopped releasing attendance figures. Over the last three years, Dover has removed 50,000 seats from the grandstand to reflect shrinking audiences, a process Tatoian calls "right-sizing."

Dover Motorsports - one of the few public companies that operate tracks - reported admissions revenue of $6.9 million in 2016, down 81 percent from $37.2 million in 2005, with marginal drops every year. After piling up $91 million in total revenue in 2005, the company brought in just $45.9 million last year, the main source being its $31 million share of NASCAR's broadcasting agreement.
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Wow...almost a 3000% drop in revenue in 12 years. That's just insane no matter what industry you're in.

And what's really scary to think about is the profit margin decline being even worse than the revenue decline. Yikes.
 
NJJammer said:
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports..._Raceway_seeking_to_attract_younger_fans.html

Attendance has plummeted over the last decade, since the economic recession of 2008 "knocked the breath out of us," in Tatoian's words. His own track has seen turnout fall from as high as 135,000 to 85,000 in 2012, after which NASCAR stopped releasing attendance figures. Over the last three years, Dover has removed 50,000 seats from the grandstand to reflect shrinking audiences, a process Tatoian calls "right-sizing."

Dover Motorsports - one of the few public companies that operate tracks - reported admissions revenue of $6.9 million in 2016, down 81 percent from $37.2 million in 2005, with marginal drops every year. After piling up $91 million in total revenue in 2005, the company brought in just $45.9 million last year, the main source being its $31 million share of NASCAR's broadcasting agreement.
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I think most of the current fans are happy to whistle Dixie and not even consider the day of reckoning that is coming and even though the tracks and Nascar are operating under the protection of an unrealistic broadcast contract major cracks are evident. Nascar has to shoulder a lot of blame for this situation as when the series became popular it went for the cash grab instead of doing the work of cultivating and maintaining the interest of younger people. At this point the initiatives of Nascar and the tracks in attracting younger fans is just spitting into the wind.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
I think most of the current fans are happy to whistle Dixie and not even consider the day of reckoning that is coming and even though the tracks and Nascar are operating under the protection of an unrealistic broadcast contract major cracks are evident. Nascar has to shoulder a lot of blame for this situation as when the series became popular it went for the cash grab instead of doing the work of cultivating and maintaining the interest of younger people. At this point the initiatives of Nascar and the tracks in attracting younger fans is just spitting into the wind.
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I'm one of those fans enjoying this ride until it's done. I do my part in watching the races that are broadcast. I attend the races that I can. I take others when possible. That's about all I can do as an individual.

What are you doing to try to better the sport?
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I'm one of those fans enjoying this ride until it's done. I do my part in watching the races that are broadcast. I attend the races that I can. I take others when possible. That's about all I can do as an individual.

What are you doing to try to better the sport?
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First order of business for me is to say I don't consider Nascar to be a sport anymore than I consider the WWE to be one.

I also watch most of the races and have attended 100+ Nascar events in my lifetime but no longer do as I don't feel they represent good value for my time. I do the same thing trying to better Nascar as I do in trying to better Campbell's Soup as it is not my responsibility.
 
It's 170 miles from Dover to Pocono.

The Pocono event appeared to be reasonably well attended ... I wonder what they're doing that Dover isn't?
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I'm one of those fans enjoying this ride until it's done. I do my part in watching the races that are broadcast. I attend the races that I can. I take others when possible. That's about all I can do as an individual.

What are you doing to try to better the sport?
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Me too.....and I don't spend much time worrying about TV ratings while at the track. Additionally, I don't count the empty seats. Might be shocking to some, but there are some really badass cars going around trying to win a race.
 
darlingtonfan said:
I would hate to be the the marketing guy at a company trying to justify the money they spend on any NASCAR sponsorship.Nascar makes Sears looks good.
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I am sure they don't bring up track attendance records in those meetings. It is all about TV viewership, but that is dropping too.
 
Revman said:
Me too.....and I don't spend much time worrying about TV ratings while at the track. Additionally, I don't count the empty seats. Might be shocking to some, but there are some really badass cars going around trying to win a race.
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I don't know anyone who counts empty seats or worries about TV ratings as they are what they are. From a business perspective a lot of what is going on in Nascar is interesting for some as if current trends hold the series will look a lot different in the future. I understand and respect that some folks don't give a toss about this sort of thing and are happy to enjoy the here and now.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Lol
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As a rule I am happy to allow people to reach their own conclusions about the products they consume but if they ask me for advice or a recommendation I am happy to help out. I can't imagine a scenario where I would advocate for a racing or sports series unless they made a contribution to my bank account each month.....:D
 
F1 in Canada yesterday looked like a huge and enthusiastic crowd. I didn't watch Pocono because of watching F1 and needing to leave right after it went off (forgot to start the dvr to catch the end). Family member that was also watching part of it made the comment along the lines of "Those stands are full. The crowd looks huge, lot different than Nascar now". They normally watch Nascar, and not much open wheel. When the ratings come out I'm sure Nascar will win between the two, but I'm equally as certain the pocono ratings will be lower than they were last year.

The people in charge need to figure out a tourniquet to slow the bleeding, figuratively speaking. Free entry for qualy's with a monster can was a good idea to try to build interest, don't know how effective it was.
 
StandOnIt said:
don't forget a teller of the future also Mr Doomsday..what a joke.. needed about like a headache.
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IDK why anyone wouldn't be bullish on the future of Nascar as overall interest in the series is on the rise, the teams aren't having sponsorship issues, most races are sold out and most races are seeing year over year increases from viewers at home. The series has solid leadership and good mix of young and old fans and is well positioned for the future. Everything is great!
 
CamelPowered said:
F1 in Canada yesterday looked like a huge and enthusiastic crowd. I didn't watch Pocono because of watching F1 and needing to leave right after it went off (forgot to start the dvr to catch the end). Family member that was also watching part of it made the comment along the lines of "Those stands are full. The crowd looks huge, lot different than Nascar now". They normally watch Nascar, and not much open wheel. When the ratings come out I'm sure Nascar will win between the two, but I'm equally as certain the pocono ratings will be lower than they were last year.

The people in charge need to figure out a tourniquet to slow the bleeding, figuratively speaking. Free entry for qualy's with a monster can was a good idea to try to build interest, don't know how effective it was.
Click to expand...

The problem for Nascar is that they are practically giving some tickets away and no one is biting and none of the initiatives they have implemented have had any traction with the viewers at home. Nascar is like the frog in the pot of water as they are paralyzed.
 
StandOnIt said:
yep most on here are ardent fans. And as long as there is a decent audience, motorsports will continue and will survive in a world that continues to offer more and more entertainment options on numerous platforms.
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Numerically what would you consider to be a "decent audience" and what programming is motorsports competing against that is eating into its audience?
 
Some people need what they like to be popular. Personally, I like what I like and don't worry about ratings, attendance, etc. Here's a newsflash, NASCAR wasn't popular for the majority of its history. It had a boom and exploded in popularity. That boom is over and the fanbase is returning to normal numbers. The racing is great and the number of young talent is amazing.
 
NJJammer said:
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports..._Raceway_seeking_to_attract_younger_fans.html

Attendance has plummeted over the last decade, since the economic recession of 2008 "knocked the breath out of us," in Tatoian's words. His own track has seen turnout fall from as high as 135,000 to 85,000 in 2012, after which NASCAR stopped releasing attendance figures. Over the last three years, Dover has removed 50,000 seats from the grandstand to reflect shrinking audiences, a process Tatoian calls "right-sizing."

Dover Motorsports - one of the few public companies that operate tracks - reported admissions revenue of $6.9 million in 2016, down 81 percent from $37.2 million in 2005, with marginal drops every year. After piling up $91 million in total revenue in 2005, the company brought in just $45.9 million last year, the main source being its $31 million share of NASCAR's broadcasting agreement.
Click to expand...

and now as the late Paul Harvey would say is the rest of the story.
Dover Motorsports - one of the few public companies that operate tracks.
Dover Motorsports...Principal stockholder is 88 years old..might have something to do with it. He has owned numerous tracks that have been shut down recently..Gateway for one..reopened soon after it was shuttered by Dover Motorsports and is now a going concern. Nascar, Indycar and NHRA Drag Racing have all returned to the track. probably the same thing will happen with his last holding Dover one of these days.
 
Michfan said:
Some people need what they like to be popular. Personally, I like what I like and don't worry about ratings, attendance, etc. Here's a newsflash, NASCAR wasn't popular for the majority of its history. It had a boom and exploded in popularity. That boom is over and the fanbase is returning to normal numbers. The racing is great and the number of young talent is amazing.
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The problem is that the fan base is not returning to normal as there are very, very few young people that watch Nascar. IDK if the fan fairy is going to magically crap out a bunch of young people in the next few years but it needs to happen as the current Nascar fan is dying off.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
Numerically what would you consider to be a "decent audience" and what programming is motorsports competing against that is eating into its audience?
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this is only one of many platforms(but cell phones and facebook are the most popular) that are not only competing with motorsports but everything else including our brain.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/hooked-on-phones/
 
It's OK to not want to pay attention to the business side of things in racing...but it's also OK to want to. From the local short tracks up to the Truck and Xfinity standalone events the gate money matters. And while that isn't an issue for Cup right now all three levels of national series racing depend heavily on sponsorship money, and subsequently, TV eyeballs. Just about all of auto racing could use an injection of interest and increased* popularity right now.
 
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FLRacingFan said:
It's OK to not want to pay attention to the business side of things in racing...but it's also OK to want to. From the local short tracks up to the Truck and Xfinity standalone events the gate money matters. And while that isn't an issue for Cup right now all three levels of national series racing depend heavily on sponsorship money, and subsequently, TV eyeballs. Just about all of auto racing could use an injection of interest and increase popularity right now.
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Busy looking at NASCAR.

Look at F1, teams are struggling to gather sponsors and involvement now in days. That was the whole point of the change in ownership. Remember, there was a time where EVERY team had a good amount of sponsors. Now, Sauber and Renault have damn near blank cars, Sauber especially.

IndyCar has always been a roller coaster, but its been trending upwards with the improved racing.

Sponsorship is not easy to come by with the costs of racing.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
The problem is that the fan base is not returning to normal as there are very, very few young people that watch Nascar. IDK if the fan fairy is going to magically crap out a bunch of young people in the next few years but it needs to happen as the current Nascar fan is dying off.
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Nobody is stupid enough to be talking about the demise of Golf who have the oldest demographic of all...but certain foolish folks make it a habit here.
 
FLRacingFan said:
It's OK to not want to pay attention to the business side of things in racing...but it's also OK to want to. From the local short tracks up to the Truck and Xfinity standalone events the gate money matters. And while that isn't an issue for Cup right now all three levels of national series racing depend heavily on sponsorship money, and subsequently, TV eyeballs. Just about all of auto racing could use an injection of interest and increase popularity right now.
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I respect that fact the most Nascar fans don't give a fig about the business of Nascar as they just want to enjoy what they see in front of them on the weekends.

At the time Monster took over the title sponsorship of the series for around 20 million per season a few of us suggested that it would put downward pressure on the sponsorships of individual teams as why pay the equivalent of 20 million per season to sponsor a car when you could get the entire series for the same or a little more? Nascar is the king of unintended consequences and have more "Doh" moments than Homer Simpson so watching them implode is not something to take pleasure from but it is interesting to me.

Will Nascar ride the elevator all the way down with Brian France or address the leadership problem by installing a competent man or woman at the top?

What impact will the lack of sponsorship have on cars counts, charters, individual teams, manufacturer support etc?

What impact will less money have on recruiting talent for the teams?

Will Nascar be able to bottom out and start growing while under the protection of the current broadcast deals?

Are there provisions in the broadcasts deals for minimum performance?

I totally understand that not many care about that kind of thing but I do and offer no apologies for it.
 
NASCAR was going to lose fans no matter what they did. I knew back in 2002 there was no way in hell Dover would be able to maintain demand to fill their 140k seats. I got to witness the meteoric rise of the facility and then beginning of the drastic fall having attended every race there from September of 1990 though the June 2010 event. Outside of a few NFL teams/games I can't think of a professional event (golf included) that doesn't have relatively wide average attendance figures year to year.

The problem with NASCAR is the drop-offs have been so severe. I literally can't watch the Brickyard anymore because it's so depressing. The prestige of the track and event should be able to attract 200k people. The Indy 500 attendance has really bounced back nicely the last 5 years or so. The enormity of the event still plays out on TV.

At the end of the day the tracks built too many seats. That is the more of a problem than anything NASCAR did to limit the fan defections. The absurd seating capacities (mostly started/done before ISC/SMI owned the tracks) skewed reality which caused NASCAR and the sponsors (especially the sponsors and tv networks) to panic. There's a reason why Chicago and Kansas were built with only 70-90k seats during the peak of the sport's popularity. Texas Speedway was built with the "Jerry World" mindset and Vegas is located in a tourist trap.

The other thing is not all races were selling out in the 90's. People simply refused to sit out in heat at Pepsi 400 in July. Those early to mid 90's races were maybe getting 50-60k? Talladega (July race), Martinsville, Atlanta (spring race), Charlotte (fall race) and Rockingham always had noticeable empty seats.

I still like Bristol with about 90k seats so you could still see "Thunder Valley". But how do you remove seats there?

Dover should still be able to pull in 85-100k per race
Pocono should still get 100-115k with their infield
Talladega should still get 125k or so with their infield
Indy should still get 200k
Michigan 100-120k with their infield
Richmond 75-90k
Charlotte 125k+ for the 600
etc

I think the sport was most "comfortable" in terms of attendance/popularity in the 1992-1996 range. It was just starting to blow up mainstream with Gordon and the Brickyard 400 brining the sport the wider audience but the cost to attend and seating capacities were still reasonable.
 
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