Should Nascar give Kyle Larson a waiver?


They gave Matt Kenseth a waiver in 2020. All he was doing the first four races of that year was sitting home. He never even PLANNED ON running a race before the season, so they’ve proved intent doesn’t matter anyway. This is a silly debate.
 

They gave Matt Kenseth a waiver in 2020. All he was doing the first four races of that year was sitting home. He never even PLANNED ON running a race before the season, so they’ve proved intent doesn’t matter anyway. This is a silly debate.
It's always telling and interesting to see who the fun haters are IMO. They come up with all kinds of B.S. to throw in the werks lol. I doubt they will be done when Larson gets his waiver so there is that left.
 

They gave Matt Kenseth a waiver in 2020. All he was doing the first four races of that year was sitting home. He never even PLANNED ON running a race before the season, so they’ve proved intent doesn’t matter anyway. This is a silly debate.

Yes, Nascar has made it clear that the intent of the rule is so that teams that aren't a full-time participant can't take one of the playoff spots by winning a race and earning just enough points to make the top 30. When a waiver request comes from a full-time participant who is simply dealing with a contingency, Nascar has been pretty liberal about granting it because it doesn't raise the concern that the rule is intended to prevent.

Injury to a full-time driver who will return? Yes, waiver granted provided he otherwise qualifies.
Driver suspension on a full-time team who fields a replacement driver? Yes, waiver granted provided he otherwise qualifies.

Larson fully intended to drive the 600. Everything was set up for him to do it and it has been proven in the past that you can do it. He attempted to do the double but the weather situation made it impossible. It's a full-time team and he's a full-time driver.

They will definitely grant it. And they should - the rule wasn't intended to knock out a full-time participant that ended up being unable to make a race, even if it wasn't due to injury. It's reasonable discretion and entirely consistent.
 
I said when Kyle Busch got his waiver this would open up a can of worms. Here we are.

What NASCAR should do is announce they are giving Larson a waiver. But add starting next season any driver missing a race that is not from a NASCAR racing injury will not be granted a waiver. That may cut down on Larson, Briscoe, and others from racing other forms of racing. But they need to get control of this.
 
I don't think this discussion is "for nothing" at all. It's a discussion that many people have had, and are still having in the industry. And I would say that more people than not are annoyed that Kyle will get the waiver, and they are annoyed that he chose (that's the operative word here folks...he "CHOSE") to miss the 600. He put the Indy 500 first. That doesn't sit well with many.

Did him doing the double bring attention to NASCAR? Sure, I guess. But that's not why he did it. He did it because he wanted to. Period. That's the end of the list of reasons why it happened. Anything else is just a byproduct. And I am 100% cool with drivers doing things because they want to. It's their right. I would support any driver racing in different series. I 100% support Chase snowboarding. Who cares. But Kyle ran the Indy 500 because Kyle wanted to. That's the only thing that should be on trial in this thread.

How do I feel about it? It's pretty simple...and I think Andy touched on it several times in this thread...the waiver rule was put in place for this EXACT situation. If you're able to race in a NASCAR event, then you better show up (and make no mistake about it..Kyle was plenty able. He chose not to. That's where it differs from injuries and suspensions, etc). And as long as that rule is there, he should NOT be granted a waiver, he should have come back for the 600. Do I think that's fair? No, it's a stupid rule that's written pretty black and white in an otherwise grey world. Was I happy Kyle stayed for the 500 instead of the 600? Personally, absolutely. Made watching the 500 that much more fun for me. If I were a Kyle fan, would I have wanted him to stay? Personally, absolutely. I've seen Kyle win a zillion NASCAR events, would be super cool to watch him at Indy. But, he broke the rule for selfish reasons. It's really that simple.

(Plus...if Kyle REALLY wanted to promote NASCAR, he would have said "sorry, but our third most important race of the year is much more important than your most important race of the year. Sucks your race got delayed, but I have to be heading back now to the premier racing series in America - you all should tune in. I'll try this again next year!" That's how you promote NASCAR. What he did had the opposite effect.)

Last thought - Kyle has a responsibility to NASCAR. His sponsors, team, fans, the entire industry really. He makes millions of dollars and has made even more millions of dollars in the past, and this commitment is what is asked of him in return. I personally feel like he broke a lot of trust with a lot of people, and let a lot of people down with his decision. I was very close to Kurt when he did the double. We had many, many, many different scenarios and schedules based on just about every single situation you could think of under the sun. None of those situations had Kurt choosing to miss the 600. It would have taken a helicopter crash, plane crash, or Indy 500 injury for that to happen. Kurt knew where his bread was buttered...and more importantly, he chose to CARE about where his bread was buttered.

TL;DR: I'm personally glad Kyle stayed to race Indy. But he really shouldn't have and should probably have been punished.
Quite the dissertation, but It doesn't change a thing. I know plenty in the industry that don't have a problem with it.The ones that are " annoyed" are probably licking their chops to have him out of the playoffs, but regardless they don't get to vote, its NASCARS game as you well know.

You made countless declarations in this post concerning what Kyle thinks, thought and cared about. ( In bold) Those are your opinions, not based on facts, unless you had inside access to the meetings at Hendrick and can read Larsons mind. To be honest it sounds like you do have a problem with, at least that's the way it comes across to me.

So you think it was 100% Kyle that made the decision to stay? That's not the word I'm hearing.
 
If they would simply stipulate that a driver must at least finish in the top 20 in points for the regular season in order to qualify for one of the 16 playoff spots, it would eliminate the need to consider waivers.

It just seems so logical. If a driver is only capable of finishing 21st among the other 36 with charters, he is not going to bring much value during the 10-race playoff. It would also help prevent a driver from missing many points-paying events and still qualifying for the playoff rounds.

Along with that rule NASCAR could still also retain the right to disqualify anyone that doesn't make a legitimate attempt to compete in all of the races or commits an awful offense that requires some discipline.
 
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Quite the dissertation, but It doesn't change a thing. I know plenty in the industry that don't have a problem with it.The ones that are " annoyed" are probably licking their chops to have him out of the playoffs, but regardless they don't get to vote, its NASCARS game as you well know.

You made countless declarations in this post concerning what Kyle thinks, thought and cared about. ( In bold) Those are your opinions, not based on facts, unless you had inside access to the meetings at Hendrick and can read Larsons mind. To be honest it sounds like you do have a problem with, at least that's the way it comes across to me.

So you think it was 100% Kyle that made the decision to stay? That's not the word I'm hearing.
This is why posting here can be extremely annoying for me. But I'm the idiot who opened my mouth on the matter, so that's on me. Suffice it to say, my "sources" as it relates to this are pretty much at the source. It was Kyle's desire to run the race that made it happen. He really wanted to. And his bosses allowed it. Had they not allowed it, he would have flown back to Charlotte without a fight. It was not their first choice of action, but they stood by their guy. But Kyle certainly wasn't forced or pressured into running Indy. He could have chosen either. And the reason he raced Indy was not "ZOMG I have a responsibility to NASCAR to reach new fans!!!!!!" C'mon. I don't need to be in his brain to know he wanted to do it for his own reasons. I have spoken to him about it plenty. He really wanted to challenge himself. I don't fault him one bit.

I'm sorry if it sounds like I have a problem with it. I really don't. Personally I'm glad he raced Indy. Not sure I would have done the same thing, but I enjoyed the hell out of watching him. I more have a problem with the rule and the way it's enforced, or not enforced. I don't even understand why there's a rule to begin with, if not this exact thing. NASCAR just finds new ways to paint themselves into corners. It's maddening. However, if I had to litigate "waiver" vs "non waiver" in court, I could very easily take both sides. I think there are plenty of compelling arguments for each. That's why I thought this was a juicy topic.
 
This is why posting here can be extremely annoying for me. But I'm the idiot who opened my mouth on the matter, so that's on me. Suffice it to say, my "sources" as it relates to this are pretty much at the source. It was Kyle's desire to run the race that made it happen. He really wanted to. And his bosses allowed it. Had they not allowed it, he would have flown back to Charlotte without a fight. It was not their first choice of action, but they stood by their guy. But Kyle certainly wasn't forced or pressured into running Indy. He could have chosen either. And the reason he raced Indy was not "ZOMG I have a responsibility to NASCAR to reach new fans!!!!!!" C'mon. I don't need to be in his brain to know he wanted to do it for his own reasons. I have spoken to him about it plenty. He really wanted to challenge himself. I don't fault him one bit.

I'm sorry if it sounds like I have a problem with it. I really don't. Personally I'm glad he raced Indy. Not sure I would have done the same thing, but I enjoyed the hell out of watching him. I more have a problem with the rule and the way it's enforced, or not enforced. I don't even understand why there's a rule to begin with, if not this exact thing. NASCAR just finds new ways to paint themselves into corners. It's maddening. However, if I had to litigate "waiver" vs "non waiver" in court, I could very easily take both sides. I think there are plenty of compelling arguments for each. That's why I thought this was a juicy topic.
There's that "annoying" word again. You said yourself it was a juicy topic that's why I assume you posted? I have a question for you, you don't think the Money, time and effort by Hendrick, HAG and MD and 8 months of a Film Crew following this Journey had any effect on "Larsons" decision?
 
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I more have a problem with the rule and the way it's enforced, or not enforced. I don't even understand why there's a rule to begin with, if not this exact thing.
This. Drop the whole 'mandatory attendance' policy.

Set a minimum points standing (say, 20th or better) for playoff eligibility. Or give each driver the option to skip a race and sacrifice the possible points. Or drop driver points entirely in favor of team points, regardless of drivers, until the playoffs begin and only one driver can be used.

If I can come up with solutions to the waiver issue, I'm sure someone who knows what he or she is doing can do better. Sponsors want their drivers' butts in the seat every week, and their money has more influence on voluntary absences than NASCAR's all-but-guaranteed waiver vending machine.
 
There's that "annoying" word again. You said yourself it was a juicy topic that's why I assume you posted? I have a question for you, you don't think the Money, time and effort by Hendrick, HAG and MD and 8 months of a Film Crew following this Journey had any effect on "Larsons" decision?
Or the fact that Hendrick owns the car. It's not a rental.
 
It's always telling and interesting to see who the fun haters are IMO. They come up with all kinds of B.S. to throw in the werks lol. I doubt they will be done when Larson gets his waiver so there is that left.
Let’s be honest here man. If this one was a Toyota driver, you would be one of those “haters.” you’ll deny it, and that is 100% fine. I’ll be told by some higher up that it’s your right and slapped on the wrist for saying so. But I seen it enough from you where your opinion on a topic changes, depending who the subject is.
 
Let’s be honest here man. If this one was a Toyota driver, you would be one of those “haters.” you’ll deny it, and that is 100% fine. I’ll be told by some higher up that it’s your right and slapped on the wrist for saying so. But I seen it enough from you where your opinion on a topic changes, depending who the subject is.
It's ok sniffles. You'll live.
 
This. Drop the whole 'mandatory attendance' policy.

Set a minimum points standing (say, 20th or better) for playoff eligibility. Or give each driver the option to skip a race and sacrifice the possible points. Or drop driver points entirely in favor of team points, regardless of drivers, until the playoffs begin and only one driver can be used.

If I can come up with solutions to the waiver issue, I'm sure someone who knows what he or she is doing can do better. Sponsors want their drivers' butts in the seat every week, and their money has more influence on voluntary absences than NASCAR's all-but-guaranteed waiver vending machine.
Well Hendrick did sponsor both
 
This is why posting here can be extremely annoying for me. But I'm the idiot who opened my mouth on the matter, so that's on me. Suffice it to say, my "sources" as it relates to this are pretty much at the source. It was Kyle's desire to run the race that made it happen. He really wanted to. And his bosses allowed it. Had they not allowed it, he would have flown back to Charlotte without a fight. It was not their first choice of action, but they stood by their guy. But Kyle certainly wasn't forced or pressured into running Indy. He could have chosen either. And the reason he raced Indy was not "ZOMG I have a responsibility to NASCAR to reach new fans!!!!!!" C'mon. I don't need to be in his brain to know he wanted to do it for his own reasons. I have spoken to him about it plenty. He really wanted to challenge himself. I don't fault him one bit.

I'm sorry if it sounds like I have a problem with it. I really don't. Personally I'm glad he raced Indy. Not sure I would have done the same thing, but I enjoyed the hell out of watching him. I more have a problem with the rule and the way it's enforced, or not enforced. I don't even understand why there's a rule to begin with, if not this exact thing. NASCAR just finds new ways to paint themselves into corners. It's maddening. However, if I had to litigate "waiver" vs "non waiver" in court, I could very easily take both sides. I think there are plenty of compelling arguments for each. That's why I thought this was a juicy topic.
I posted it days before the race a clip with Hendrick saying that the 500 race was the priority. Hendrick was all in at the Indy race. The day of the race with rain threatening Hendrick said they were going to wait out the rain. They were hoping for a downpour secretly if it was going to rain so they could do the 500 on Monday. I have no idea who your sources were but they sure weren't saying what the Hendrick group were saying publicly.
 
There's that "annoying" word again. You said yourself it was a juicy topic that's why I assume you posted? I have a question for you, you don't think the Money, time and effort by Hendrick, HAG and MD and 8 months of a Film Crew following this Journey had any effect on "Larsons" decision?
A whole lot of people had a whole lot of agendas in trying to sway what went on. I'm saying Kyle was motivated by one thing. And I guess you're saying it was a whole lot of things. Whatever. It doesn't matter. History will show he ran the 500 (for whatever reason) and skipped the 600 (for whatever reason) no matter what we type here. Again, I'm glad he did it. More entertainment for me.
 
I posted it days before the race a clip with Hendrick saying that the 500 race was the priority. Hendrick was all in at the Indy race. The day of the race with rain threatening Hendrick said they were going to wait out the rain. They were hoping for a downpour secretly if it was going to rain so they could do the 500 on Monday. I have no idea who your sources were but they sure weren't saying what the Hendrick group were saying publicly.
The problem is for months it was said repeatedly that the cup car was still the priority. A week before the race that suddenly changes? Why? I figured it was because they already had the waiver locked in at that point, but I see that wasn't the case. They simply just chose it over the 600 at the end of the day.
 
The drivers are probably having a hard time picking a side. Larson is definitely a threat that the drivers would most likely not want to have to deal with in the playoffs. But they also don’t want to be on record saying Larson doesn’t deserve a waiver, only to have themselves possibly needing one somewhere down the road.
 
The problem is for months it was said repeatedly that the cup car was still the priority. A week before the race that suddenly changes? Why? I figured it was because they already had the waiver locked in at that point, but I see that wasn't the case. They simply just chose it over the 600 at the end of the day.
I'm not that sure. When Nascar was asked about a waiver days before the events, they said they weren't going to say anything until after the events were finished. It's open to speculation at this point. I do believe the overall opinion from what I have seen and read is that Larson should get the waiver. But Nascar is Nascar so who knows.
 
The drivers are probably having a hard time picking a side. Larson is definitely a threat that the drivers would most likely not want to have to deal with in the playoffs. But they also don’t want to be on record saying Larson doesn’t deserve a waiver, only to have themselves possibly needing one somewhere down the road.
If you’re a true competitor you want to beat the best. Even as a fan, I hate Hamlin but if he was in this situation I’d want him to get a waiver because it just isn’t the same without all the best guys in it.
 
Come on man, isn’t there enough chaos in this world??? 😂
Lmao probably. But I think we can use a tiny bit more! Plus it’s an amazing way to show how dumb the system is, when Larson ends up regular season champ, kills it in the playoffs, and isn’t champ because he missed one race lol. Anything to expose the fraud of how the championship is determined is good to me.
 
How can Penske even let his driver entertain these thoughts of competition? I think a reminder is in order of what Josef's responsibilities are and who they are to.
The Captain needs to kick his uppity ass back down to Indy 2 cars or even down to the para-car series that only runs off sails. If a driver has ever made a teach my ass request this has got to be it and he needs to be learnt better....
 
I think this needs to be considered in the lenses of will Josef Newgarden let is sponsors down? Will he let his fans down? What will his sport think about this?
The more I think about it the more pissed off I get
The man just won at least 4.5 million dollars and that ain't enough for his ungrateful ass. I can guarantee you that the whole time he was doing his post race celebration in the Indianapolis grandstands that he was faking it and thinking about the fans in the bleachers at the Charlotte Motor Speedway.

Makes me sorry for his family and wife too, while he sits around thinking about Samantha Busch, Amy Earnhardt and the monster energy girls....
 
Yeah, I mean what’s taking so long to announce it? Or are they just gonna ignore it and hope that people don’t question anything once Kyle is in the playoffs once they start? I mean, they had to of had a decision made prior. Unless they were legit thrown for a curve when he chose to stay in Indy despite the rain delay.
 
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