Silly Season 2023

cheesepuffs

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I guess nascar wouldn't care anymore about JRM going cup racing with Rick owning some of JRM? Apparently not they changed the rules already for Denny and MJ already

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What do you mean by changed the rules for Denny and MJ already?
 

LewTheShoe

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I guess nascar wouldn't care anymore about JRM going cup racing with Rick owning some of JRM? Apparently not they changed the rules already for Denny and MJ already

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This seems a bit of a knee-jerk reaction, so I wonder what's fueling your ire? I mean a JRM Cup team doesn't even exist, so nobody knows how it would be set up, who exactly would own it, etc.

I for one feel the rules interpretation for Hamlin was (is) completely sound. Denny was permitted to drive for a four-car team *plus* own another team because there is no evidence that 23XI operates for the benefit of Joe Gibbs Racing. All they do is pay for technical services rendered, same as many other Nascar teams.

Sure, it was a rule modification... so what? Gibbs doesn't own any part of 23XI. Gibbs doesn't benefit if 23XI wins races or signs sponsors. Gibbs doesn't get to insert a driver or a crew chief. It's the exact same relationship Gibbs had with Barney Visser's 78 car. It's the same deal Hendrick had with Stewart-Haas Racing.

I did object to how Gibbs set up Visser's 77 team as a 5th Gibbs car for Erik Jones, and also when Gibbs set up Leavine as a 5th Gibbs car for C. Bell. Both those deals violated the four-car limit... both the letter of the law and the spirit of it. Do you have any evidence that 23XI acts as a 5th Gibbs team?
 

acmerocket

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he sure talked up trackhouse ,maybe he is working on something with them.;)
 

wi_racefan

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This seems a bit of a knee-jerk reaction, so I wonder what's fueling your ire? I mean a JRM Cup team doesn't even exist, so nobody knows how it would be set up, who exactly would own it, etc.

I for one feel the rules interpretation for Hamlin was (is) completely sound. Denny was permitted to drive for a four-car team *plus* own another team because there is no evidence that 23XI operates for the benefit of Joe Gibbs Racing. All they do is pay for technical services rendered, same as many other Nascar teams.

Sure, it was a rule modification... so what?

Modification or change call it what you want. They changed the rule for them



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Jorge De Guzman

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How? I'm not being facetious. Honestly, what did NASCAR change to accommodate them?
You still haven't specified what rule has been modified.
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wi_racefan

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How? I'm not being facetious. Honestly, what did NASCAR change to accommodate them?
Previous rule was a driver could not own (or be part owner of) a team if they were driving for a 4 car organization. That put them over the 4 car per team rule. Say what you want that was the rule until Denny and MJ wanted to start a team then it was changed to accommodate them.



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wi_racefan

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Previous NASCAR regulations have seemingly prevented a driver from one team owning a stake in another. In other words, Hamlin could not own a stake in what is now Germain or any other team while driving for Gibbs.

Dale Earnhardt was grandfathered in at the time he owned Dale Earnhardt Inc. while driving for Richard Childress Racing.

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Kiante

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Satellite teams skirt the rules and once again 23XI is independent of JGR.

23XI has its own mechanics and everything else, the only thing they receive from JGR is data. They literally have a TRD meeting and then a meeting wthin 23XI the next day, its all data driven for setup purposes.

It's no different from any other team, Phelps stated its within regulations and that the team would have to abide by their rules. Especially now, its more data driven than ever considering all of the cars are the same.
 

wi_racefan

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Satellite teams skirt the rules and once again 23XI is independent of JGR.

23XI has its own mechanics and everything else, the only thing they receive from JGR is data. They literally have a TRD meeting and then a meeting wthin 23XI the next day, its all data driven for setup purposes.

It's no different from any other team, Phelps stated its within regulations and that the team would have to abide by their rules. Especially now, its more data driven than ever considering all of the cars are the same.
Data and parts Denny himself has even admitted that as 23XI was tearing up a lot of stuff early this season and JGR wasn't they were getting parts from JGR.

The separation isn't much. Denny went after Ricky at WWT after his incident with Bubba.

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StandOnIt

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Damage control. What the hell difference does it make having a new or an existing team? Something similar happened to Truex's pit crew at Indy when he drove for Barney Visser and he wouldn't pull over and let Kyle lead and they both wrecked. Preacher Joe got rid of Truex's pit crew that Barney was paying for.
In this case 23XI is paying good money for a pit crew and it is obvious they aren't getting the good stuff. That should have been fixed immediately for the customer who is paying the bill.

 

acmerocket

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when you have 6 team ,someone is going to be 6th on the list and its not going to be one the in house 4,the bottem 2 would be better going out and getting there own guys.:idunno:
 

Charlie Spencer

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when you have 6 team ,someone is going to be 6th on the list and its not going to be one the in house 4,the bottem 2 would be better going out and getting there own guys.:idunno:
On a list of six teams, even the sixth one may be better than whatever else is available.
 

Bigpaulie1979

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Why is it that so many people think that JRM has to buy a team/charter to move up to Cup, why can’t he take his marketing machine and join an existing team, similar to Smoke/Kes and others before them.

Seems like something JR would be all about, little to no $ equity, but use his marketing clout to get a portion of a cup team
 

Charlie Spencer

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Why is it that so many people think that JRM has to buy a team/charter to move up to Cup, why can’t he take his marketing machine and join an existing team, similar to Smoke/Kes and others before them.

Seems like something JR would be all about, little to no $ equity, but use his marketing clout to get a portion of a cup team
For the same reasons thousands of people start their own businesses every year instead of taking a job somewhere.
 

StandOnIt

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Why is it that so many people think that JRM has to buy a team/charter to move up to Cup, why can’t he take his marketing machine and join an existing team, similar to Smoke/Kes and others before them.

Seems like something JR would be all about, little to no $ equity, but use his marketing clout to get a portion of a cup team
JR is more of a figurehead than into the business end. Kelly does the deals, what she says usually goes, and what she says is posted above.
 

ahhculdee

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JRM wants to move up to Cup:
Seems like Jr wanted to sign MTJ to get the Cup organization going.
I feel like the plans got moved back to 2024 based on MTJ just saying coming back for next year.
 

Jorge De Guzman

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I feel like the plans got moved back to 2024 based on MTJ just saying coming back for next year.
thats not a bad theory. I think maybe Martin races at JRM when Ty is ready. I dont know how this is going to shake out or have any knowledge of it. Just looking it as a pure outsider but a 8 with Truex and 88 with Gragson would be pretty bad ass in my view.
 

StandOnIt

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Damage control. What the hell difference does it make having a new or an existing team? Something similar happened to Truex's pit crew at Indy when he drove for Barney Visser and he wouldn't pull over and let Kyle lead and they both wrecked. Preacher Joe got rid of Truex's pit crew that Barney was paying for.
In this case 23XI is paying good money for a pit crew and it is obvious they aren't getting the good stuff. That should have been fixed immediately for the customer who is paying the bill.


 

LewTheShoe

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RHRFan#1

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The overall declining popularity of the sport and what Kyle may be demanding for a salary could be playing a factor in this.
 

StandOnIt

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I don't like Kyle, but can appreciate his talent. Still don't understand how JGR hasn't lined up enough sponsors for the #18 for next year


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It's probably the most interesting mystery in years. Nobody else in the higher driver echalon seems to have a sponsor problem, of course nobody else is that far off the chart bat $hit crazy at that age either. It's a possibility that he could have done something to twist off M&M Mars away from their good graces. I'm pretty sure they were raking it in during the pandemic so I wouldn't think it was about the money. The sponsor pool isn't very large for teams like the yotas, Joe's turnpike service isn't going to cut it. Every day he goes without news for next year has to be grinding on him and the organization. But like what was said on another thread, Gibbs has mollycoddled Kyle, catered to his every whim because he was winning. The behavior is still there but the wins aren't coming.
 

DIDIT

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I don't like Kyle, but can appreciate his talent. Still don't understand how JGR hasn't lined up enough sponsors for the #18 for next year


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KDB, is not a "role model" for anyone, much less a corporate representative or spokesman. Outside of his racing talent it is hard to find anything to respect. I am actually surprised his current sponsors has stayed with him.
 

cheesepuffs

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I feel like the plans got moved back to 2024 based on MTJ just saying coming back for next year.
It already would have been for 2024. It's already halfway through 2022. This stuff takes time to set up. I mean, they don't even have a charter yet
 

cheesepuffs

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You guys are harsh on Kyle Busch to the point where it reads like a parody.

What "behavior" problem does he still have? You guys act like he's out stirring some intense controversy, just because he gets out of the car and isn't all robotic smiles over a 3rd place finish.
 

Daytripper

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In all forms of professional sports, it's not uncommon for highly talented people to be immature crybabies. This is nothing new and sponsors have not cared about it for decades. I highly doubt that KDBs attitude has anything to do with m&ms decision to stop sponsoring him.
 
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