Silly Season 2023

cheesepuffs

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In all forms of professional sports, it's not uncommon for highly talented people to be immature crybabies. This is nothing new and sponsors have not cared about it for decades.
Exactly. Not to mention they had years of opportunity to leave him if attitude issues were a big hangup for them, back when he actually had an attitude.
so I wouldn't think it was about the money.
You wouldn't think that a mega-corporation's decision to allocate millions of dollars from their marketing budget in one way or another would be about the money? Of course it's about the money, this is literally 100% about money. They're leaving the sport, not Kyle Busch. That seems to be lost on you.

They have made the decision that the return on investment in NASCAR is not what they are looking for anymore. Whether it's because the demographics don't line up with who their marketing department is targeting anymore, or they think that they can get more engagement by re-allocating that funding into digital marketing, or into another sport or any other number of possibilities, is something that they have come to terms with in a board meeting. No sound company, just because they made a lot of revenue, is just trying to light their money on fire. They think they can get more value for their money elsewhere. All about the money, not about Kyle Busch.
 

Jorge De Guzman

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You guys are harsh on Kyle Busch to the point where it reads like a parody.

What "behavior" problem does he still have? You guys act like he's out stirring some intense controversy, just because he gets out of the car and isn't all robotic smiles over a 3rd place finish.
Mars while being thisclose to leaving Busch after his Hornaday antics hadn’t had a problem with Busch’s behavior in the time they sponsored him. I don’t even know what behavior some are referring to....because he smashed a guitar all those years ago, a pouty post race interview, or a snide remake here or there? I don’t buy any of it...I think haters of Kyle Busch are just using losing his longtime sponsor as an opportunity to pile on. Many of the great’s before Kyle lost their sponsors who they were affiliated with, he’s just another in a long line. Kyle is just the latest to be rightsized through changing salary and sponsor contracts due to it not being the nascar of the mid 2000’s.
 

cheesepuffs

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Mars while being thisclose to leaving Busch after his Hornaday antics hadn’t had a problem with Busch’s behavior in the time they sponsored him. I don’t even know what behavior some are referring to....because he smashed a guitar all those years ago, a pouty post race interview, or a snide remake here or there? I don’t buy any of it...I think haters of Kyle Busch are just using losing his longtime sponsor as an opportunity to pile on. Many of the great’s before Kyle lost their sponsors who they were affiliated with, he’s just another in a long line. Kyle is just the latest to be rightsized through changing salary and sponsor contracts due to it not being the nascar of the mid 2000’s.
Exactly. One massive element to Kyle Busch that the haters have no grasp on, is that ALL drivers have attitudes. ALL of them say things they couldn't repeat in front of an NBC camera. Kyle Busch, and some others like Smoke back in the day, and Denny to somewhat of a degree since he became an owner, just filter themselves ever so slightly less for the camera. They're still filtering themselves, but they aren't 100% turning their persona when the camera turns on. Personally, I appreciate that. Who wants a fake PR robot to cheer for on Sunday? So Kyle Busch gives us fans a tiny glimpse into his GENUINE emotions sometimes, which is much more brave than what 99% of other Cup drivers are willing to give us, and yet the fans drag him through the mud for it. It's ridiculous.

Jeff Gordon the media darling tells us in his own book how he punched Mike Bliss in the face inside of an airport after one race, and somehow that doesn't stop us from admiring him and praising his legacy. But Kyle Busch says he's competing to win and people get all hurt about that. The haters think racecar drivers are all supposed to be Bob Ross with a firesuit on, when in reality they're all piranhas under the helmet.
 

LewTheShoe

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One massive element to Kyle Busch that the haters have no grasp on, is that ALL drivers have attitudes....
I'm calling BS on this line of argument. Sure, of course, all good racers have attitude and extra large egos, but my experience is that the majority of them strike a balance that allows *some room* for the rights of competitors. You are just glossing over, same as Joe Gibbs has always done, which just "enables" that behavior and makes it worse.

Consider a typical 50-50 situation on track... say it's a question of who has position on who, or who is leaving enough room for the other guy. If it's a true 50-50 deal, any good driver will see it as 60-40 in his favor, and most elite drivers will see 70-30. That's fine. But when someone always sees 100-0, that's what crosses the line between "fast and aggressive" which is righteous, and "dirty driving" that I have problems with.

Kyle Busch is a 100-0 guy, always has been, most likely always will be. You see it in all the times he has wrecked himself driving across another guy's nose. KDB demands that the other guy lift and yield, and if he doesn't give way, KDB will pout and whine about how the other guy is an idiot. It's what narcissism is, and it's different from the large ego all drivers possess.

Who else can wreck himself running squarely into the rear bumper of a backmarker... and then claim that backmarker wrecked him!!??
 

StandOnIt

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I'm calling BS on this line of argument. Sure, of course, all good racers have attitude and extra large egos, but my experience is that the majority of them strike a balance that allows *some room* for the rights of competitors. You are just glossing over, same as Joe Gibbs has always done, which just "enables" that behavior and makes it worse.

Consider a typical 50-50 situation on track... say it's a question of who has position on who, or who is leaving enough room for the other guy. If it's a true 50-50 deal, any good driver will see it as 60-40 in his favor, and most elite drivers will see 70-30. That's fine. But when someone always sees 100-0, that's what crosses the line between "fast and aggressive" which is righteous, and "dirty driving" that I have problems with.

Kyle Busch is a 100-0 guy, always has been, most likely always will be. You see it in all the times he has wrecked himself driving across another guy's nose. KDB demands that the other guy lift and yield, and if he doesn't give way, KDB will pout and whine about how the other guy is an idiot. It's what narcissism is, and it's different from the large ego all drivers possess.

Who else can wreck himself running squarely into the rear bumper of a backmarker... and then claim that backmarker wrecked him!!??
Yep who else lol.
 

acmerocket

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if you could hang out for a day with any 5 nascar drivers past or present would kyle be on that list? not on my list;)
 

cheesepuffs

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I'm calling BS on this line of argument. Sure, of course, all good racers have attitude and extra large egos, but my experience is that the majority of them strike a balance that allows *some room* for the rights of competitors. You are just glossing over, same as Joe Gibbs has always done, which just "enables" that behavior and makes it worse.

Consider a typical 50-50 situation on track... say it's a question of who has position on who, or who is leaving enough room for the other guy. If it's a true 50-50 deal, any good driver will see it as 60-40 in his favor, and most elite drivers will see 70-30. That's fine. But when someone always sees 100-0, that's what crosses the line between "fast and aggressive" which is righteous, and "dirty driving" that I have problems with.

Kyle Busch is a 100-0 guy, always has been, most likely always will be. You see it in all the times he has wrecked himself driving across another guy's nose. KDB demands that the other guy lift and yield, and if he doesn't give way, KDB will pout and whine about how the other guy is an idiot. It's what narcissism is, and it's different from the large ego all drivers possess.

Who else can wreck himself running squarely into the rear bumper of a backmarker... and then claim that backmarker wrecked him!!??
This is some whole new kind of embellishment bordering on a fairytale here.
 

acmerocket

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matt kenseth to the 88,after watching the srx race i think he would be good for jrs new team
 

wi_racefan

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matt kenseth to the 88,after watching the srx race i think he would be good for jrs new team
I'd have to disagree he's talented but at age 50 he's clearly diminishing. He didn't do much of anything to help improve the 42 while he was there. Helping a team is vital in building a new team

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
 

Team Penske

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Why is it that so many people think that JRM has to buy a team/charter to move up to Cup, why can’t he take his marketing machine and join an existing team, similar to Smoke/Kes and others before them.

Seems like something JR would be all about, little to no $ equity, but use his marketing clout to get a portion of a cup team
I agree with "how" JRM could go cup racing 100%. My problem is WHO would drive the car? I do think he could rent a car from HMS and test 2 of his current Infinity drivers. Y' all have to remember that "sponsors" is the key ingredient in any car hitting the track successfully. That may be what Kelly means when she says their working on it.
 

28car

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if you think about it why do they need a charter
it's not like they are going to be a field filler team struggling to make speed

crashing in practice would be their biggest worry
 

aunty dive

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JR isn't going to do ANYTHING that is a money loser, and if you can believe what we have been told, running a non-chartered team (unless you are a back-marker team with pay drivers) is a money loser.
Non-chartered teams earn approx 60% of prize money awarded to charters for the same finishing position at each race.

Charters continue to appreciate in value. Serious players aren’t going to miss out on that.
 

wi_racefan

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JR isn't going to do ANYTHING that is a money loser, and if you can believe what we have been told, running a non-chartered team (unless you are a back-marker team with pay drivers) is a money loser.
Yeah after they changed the pay system this year Denny has even said that you could win in a non chartered car and still lose money
 

Speedbowl14

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NASCAR will get more money. Teams will not get more money but we will get more commercials anyway.

I don't think so. I believe this will quickly turn into stick n ball contracts where the players and the league negotiate. It's not 2001 where TV money is a fraction of revenue for teams- it's a good chunk since the sponsorship market turned to ****. If the teams aren't happy with the terms set out on the negotiating table, why not walk away? Especially with Indycar and F1 thriving... heck, even dirt racing is having a sort of renaissance and a well-sponsored top tier car can make it financially.

It sounds ridiculous but if a team's options are have an unstable financial future with not enough TV money or walk away to a different series while they still have employees and current sponsors, which would you choose?
 

Charlie Spencer

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Especially with Indycar and F1 thriving...
Pretty sure IndyCar teams don't make anywhere near as much money as a Cup team.

F1 is limited to ten 2-car teams. Even if there was room, if a team can't get the sponsorship to have a stable financial future in Cup, there's no way it can afford to run F1. Heck, do F1 teams even make a profit? Don't most of them receive a huge chunk from the manufacturers? Or are they completely owned and operated by the manufacturers with no independently owned teams who have to worry about breaking even?
 

Jorge De Guzman

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I'm shocked RC just lost their franchise driver, their best driver since Kevin Harvick was driving for him. I'm worried about RCR, where do they go from here? Austin Dillon while having a few wins isnt a franchise driver. Might get you to round 1 or in a good ( gulp) year to the 2nd round of the playoffs thats it. The smart and easy play was to build around Reddick. They failed. I could be wrong but their Xfinity drivers..... are they going to put this team into Cup contention and upper echelon? I'm just bewildered as to how they couldnt sign him for long term.
 
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wi_racefan

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I'm shocked RC just lost their franchise driver, their best driver since Kevin Harvick was driving for him. I'm worried about RCR, where do they go from here? Austin Dillon while having a few wins isnt a franchise driver. Might get you to round 1 or in a good ( gulp) year to the 2nd round of the playoffs thats it. The smart and easy play was to build around Reddick. They failed. I could be wrong but their Xfinity drivers..... are they going to put this team into Cup contention and upper echelon? I'm just bewildered as to how they couldnt sign him for long term.
No info here besides speculation by my guess is RCR makes a run at Corey Lajoie or Mcdowell. Lets be honest both of those guys have been outperforming their teams all season. If it were me I'd make a run at Corey, he seems like more of a marketing machine.
 

Jorge De Guzman

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No info here besides speculation by my guess is RCR makes a run at Corey Lajoie or Mcdowell. Lets be honest both of those guys have been outperforming their teams all season. If it were me I'd make a run at Corey, he seems like more of a marketing machine.
I'd try to find sponsors, ask GM for $$$$ and throw everything I had at signing Noah Gragson. He's still young and got some talent. Will have to work on whats between the ears but I think desperate times call for desperate measures. I think they might be able to build around Noah. RC has to know he cant keep that team afloat or at least a viable option if the grandson is your top driver. Lets be honest, They are behind HMS, Trackhouse and I think GMS is going to outrun them soon. RCR is closer to Roush than they are any of those other outfits right now..... time has passed them by for whatever reason. They might have put all their eggs into the Reality TV Cowboy basket. As a fan of RCR its really tough to see this happen to them, one of the top teams of the sport and they are sliding down each year. @AuzGrams I'm glad my post gave you a chuckle.
 

Charlie Spencer

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No info here besides speculation by my guess is RCR makes a run at Corey Lajoie or Mcdowell. Lets be honest both of those guys have been outperforming their teams all season. If it were me I'd make a run at Corey, he seems like more of a marketing machine.
McDowell seems happy where he is, and Love’s happy with him.
 

AuzGrams

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I'd try to find sponsors, ask GM for $$$$ and throw everything I had at signing Noah Gragson. He's still young and got some talent. Will have to work on whats between the ears but I think desperate times call for desperate measures. I think they might be able to build around Noah. RC has to know he cant keep that team afloat or at least a viable option if the grandson is your top driver. Lets be honest, They are behind HMS, Trackhouse and I think GMS is going to outrun them soon. RCR is closer to Roush than they are any of those other outfits right now..... time has passed them by for whatever reason. They might have put all their eggs into the Reality TV Cowboy basket. As a fan of RCR its really tough to see this happen to them, one of the top teams of the sport and they are sliding down each year. @AuzGrams I'm glad my post gave you a chuckle.

I did because it was a little bit of an overreaction tbh. RCR definitely lost a good driver but they have options. RCR has been a B- level team for a while.
 

Jorge De Guzman

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I did because it was a little bit of an overreaction tbh. RCR definitely lost a good driver but they have options. RCR has been a B- level team for a while.
Maybe. But would you call the press release RCR sent out an overreaction? They're obviously not taking this well with what they sent out. I would hope this is kind of a wake up call for them. They just lost a really good driver, what options are out there that they can build a contending team around? I dont see many.
 

wi_racefan

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Maybe. But would you call the press release RCR sent out an overreaction? They're obviously not taking this well with what they sent out. I would hope this is kind of a wake up call for them. They just lost a really good driver, what options are out there that they can build a contending team around? I dont see many.
There's a ton of options. Corey Lajoie, JHN, Noah, Zane Smith, Josh Berry...... those are just the ones that immediately come to mind. Losing Tyler was a big hit, but if they get their poop in a group they can lock down someone good as a replacement
 

LJ7201

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I'd try to find sponsors, ask GM for $$$$ and throw everything I had at signing Noah Gragson. He's still young and got some talent. Will have to work on whats between the ears but I think desperate times call for desperate measures. I think they might be able to build around Noah. RC has to know he cant keep that team afloat or at least a viable option if the grandson is your top driver. Lets be honest, They are behind HMS, Trackhouse and I think GMS is going to outrun them soon. RCR is closer to Roush than they are any of those other outfits right now..... time has passed them by for whatever reason. They might have put all their eggs into the Reality TV Cowboy basket. As a fan of RCR its really tough to see this happen to them, one of the top teams of the sport and they are sliding down each year. @AuzGrams I'm glad my post gave you a chuckle.
Look they can laugh if they wish but fact of the matter is Noah Gragson is no joke
 

Jorge De Guzman

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There's a ton of options. Corey Lajoie, JHN, Noah, Zane Smith, Josh Berry...... those are just the ones that immediately come to mind. Losing Tyler was a big hit, but if they get their poop in a group they can lock down someone good as a replacement
All fine options. Also Assuming with Noah thats if these drivers are available. I thought I read on here Zane is with Ford exclusively, I think Josh is tied up with JRM or so I thought I read. This is sort of a pivotal decision for RC, they have to hope whoever they choose can run well and win races because the driver of the 3 doesnt do it enough.
 
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