So Far, The Boys Aren't Having At It

AndyMarquisLive said:
With Kyle and BradK, NASCAR sent a message last year that there is no "Have at it".
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I can't figure out what either of these two examples have to do with the 'Have at it' era. No need to rehash the Busch issue..... I think it pretty much spoke for itself. Keselowski's comments on EFI that caused his $25,000 fine also had nothing to do with it.
 
JimmieGordon2448 said:
I was thinking the same thing Saturday, I said to myself the cars,tracks and drivers are all "too" safe, there has to be a time when you knock someone out of the way though.
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JimmieGordon2448 said:
Like I thought Saturday Kyle was gonna put up a fight against Jr, he just pulled aside and went go ahead.
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I was kinda thinking along the same lines this past weekend but the more that I've heard from the drivers quotes this week, it sounds like they were more afraid of running around each other at Texas because of the weather, of all things. I listened to Dale Jr's scanner for the entire race and heard comments from him several times about how they could race side by side because of the wind gusts. I've also heard comments from Truex Jr. and just a few minutes ago from Biffle about the same thing.
 
Yep dpk, the wind played havok on the cars. Guys were giving up a lot in turn 3, where the wind seemed to really catch the cars and send them toward the wall. It made Biffles pass even more impressive.
 
FenderBumper said:
Yep dpk, the wind played havok on the cars. Guys were giving up a lot in turn 3, where the wind seemed to really catch the cars and send them toward the wall. It made Biffles pass even more impressive.
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They seemed to be having a tough time telling what changes to make with the setups. The same turn was different each time around the track because the either was or wasn't wind. It was a weird race. I didn't watch the FOX broadcast so I don't know if they were even mentioning this as being a problem.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
They seemed to be having a tough time telling what changes to make with the setups. The same turn was different each time around the track because the either was or wasn't wind. It was a weird race. I didn't watch the FOX broadcast so I don't know if they were even mentioning this as being a problem.
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They may have. I took a nice nap, so I can't be sure.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I didn't watch the FOX broadcast so I don't know if they were even mentioning this as being a problem.
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I've heard less about wind on the weather channel.
 
I think the Safe racing is more because the drivers and teams have determined with the new point system it's much much harder to regain lost points than in the past. Now their playing it safe as long as they are within shooting distance of the Top 10 Look at the points, currently with 7 races down there's only 121 points seperating 1st from 25th.
I'll bet things don't really start picking up till early summer, then we'll see drivers really trying to get that few extra points or a Win for the Wild Card positions. Thats another thing anyone else noticed that where 7 races in and have 6 different Winners?
Tony Stewart 2 Wins
Greg Biffle
Matt Kenseth
Denny Hamlin
Ryan Newman
and only One outside the Top 10
Brad Keselowski

I'm curious if someones going to go on a Winning streak and break away before summer.
 
FlFlash said:
I think the Safe racing is more because the drivers and teams have determined with the new point system it's much much harder to regain lost points than in the past. Now their playing it safe as long as they are within shooting distance of the Top 10 Look at the points, currently with 7 races down there's only 121 points seperating 1st from 25th.
I'll bet things don't really start picking up till early summer, then we'll see drivers really trying to get that few extra points or a Win for the Wild Card positions. Thats another thing anyone else noticed that where 7 races in and have 6 different Winners?
Tony Stewart 2 Wins
Greg Biffle
Matt Kenseth
Denny Hamlin
Ryan Newman
and only One outside the Top 10
Brad Keselowski

I'm curious if someones going to go on a Winning streak and break away before summer.
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Usually Kyle and Denny dominate the spring early summer stint. Im glad to see them not winning. Really, I am.
 
They certainly seem more content than ever. It seems something is lacking this year for sure.
 
Heh y'all ..maybe it's the new points system . There's just not enough incentive to win . What with keeping your ride , keeping your sponsor , winning a million bucks , and that stupid trophy . Let's change the point system again and put more emphasis on winning races , that'll fix it.
 
There already seems to be a pretty good incentive to win, at least to get that first one anyhow. Heck, you win that one race, you're almost assured a starting spot in Brian's made for TV all important Chase format. Win two in those first 26, I can't see you not making it. As long as the Chase format exists, I can't see that changing. You can give them 1000 points for the win and the same scenario still exists, win and you're in.
 
ted@economy said:
Heh y'all ..maybe it's the new points system . There's just not enough incentive to win . What with keeping your ride , keeping your sponsor , winning a million bucks , and that stupid trophy . Let's change the point system again and put more emphasis on winning races , that'll fix it.
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Don't misundestand me I Like the New point system! But I think Alot of drivers paid attention to how Tony kinda slid through the first part of the season (even struggling in His Opinion) just staying within range of the Top Ten only to Cut Loose and go balls to the wall in The Chase to Win!!!
JJ did much the same under the old system and did pretty much the same thing in years before, so is this the New Strategy of Winning the Championship?

I'll admit though if it where up to me the Man with the Most Wins at the end of the season would be The Champion!!!............Oh Wait....That would have been Tony Stewart last year!!! Sumofabeach the new point system WORKS!
 
I think back to how many accidents were caused by a guy jumping on the gas an getting into the car in front, and I'm convinced that the switch to EFI has a lot to do with less incidents. The big accelerator pumps would just dump a load of fuel into the intake and the cars would jump foward. The drivers haven't fully adjusted yet, and the net effect is that they are 'easier' on the gas coming off the turns. I don't see guys spinning the rear wheels coming off a turn and backing into the wall either. Side by side on exit is also absent for the most part. Adjusting the accelerator linkage on the old carbs could be tricky, so the gap between cars was greater.

I think teams will get better at setting the fuel curve to the throttle plate, and drivers will refine their foot work and mash the gas a bit harder. Then we'll start to see more bumping coming out of the turns, and more side by side on exit.
 
FlFlash said:
Don't misundestand me I Like the New point system! But I think Alot of drivers paid attention to how Tony kinda slid through the first part of the season (even struggling in His Opinion) just staying within range of the Top Ten only to Cut Loose and go balls to the wall in The Chase to Win!!!
JJ did much the same under the old system and did pretty much the same thing in years before, so is this the New Strategy of Winning the Championship?
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Boy, I don't know..... Tony got into the Chase by the skin of his teeth last year. He was barley holding on in the tenth position going into race #26 @ Richmond. If drivers took note of that as a means of getting into the Chase, many of them will be disappointed in years to come. The Chase, on the other hand, yes that was something for all of the drivers to take note of. Even so though, as good of a Chase that Tony had, he ended tied after those ten and only won the Chase because of his victory count in those final ten races. I guess what I am saying is..... Yeah, Tony did it, but I don't think his run to get into the Chase was a strategy to mirror. I think his strategy this year is a much better road to take. He has two wins in the book early this year and is open to gamble through the remaining races up through Richmond. They can try whatever setups they've been afraid to in the past. Basically they have an open test session through Richmond that other teams don't have the luxury of. Bad finishes now for him simply could be experimental setups in an attempt to gain the upper hand through those final ten. He's in a great position IMO.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I absolutely agree. A win all but guarantees a team a berth in the made for television excitement that is The Chase.
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3 point bonus for the win, and 3 points in the chase vs the old 10 points. Now it's 3 top 5 positions, vs 2 for the old system. Just on that point, the bonus is worth 33% more. I see JJ and others going for the win a lot earlier than in the past. TMany teams used to ride around and test stuff for the chase. I think the new strategy is to use the regular season to get wins, lock yourself in, and then go for more wins to pad your chase bonus. I think this is exactly what the approach the 11 took when rain hit Fontana.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Boy, I don't know..... Tony got into the Chase by the skin of his teeth last year. He was barley holding on in the tenth position going into race #26 @ Richmond. If drivers took note of that as a means of getting into the Chase, many of them will be disappointed in years to come. The Chase, on the other hand, yes that was something for all of the drivers to take note of. Even so though, as good of a Chase that Tony had, he ended tied after those ten and only won the Chase because of his victory count in those final ten races. I guess what I am saying is..... Yeah, Tony did it, but I don't think his run to get into the Chase was a strategy to mirror. I think his strategy this year is a much better road to take. He has two wins in the book early this year and is open to gamble through the remaining races up through Richmond. They can try whatever setups they've been afraid to in the past. Basically they have an open test session through Richmond that other teams don't have the luxury of. Bad finishes now for him simply could be experimental setups in an attempt to gain the upper hand through those final ten. He's in a great position IMO.
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We agree I just say it differently ;) And yes I like the "Win Every Damn Thing You Can" strategy better. I've always felt there's to much emphasis put on the Champioship points anymore and not on just plain Old Winning.....Look at Harvick last year he Won FOUR RACES!!! Only one less than the Champion......and nobody even mentions his name.
"Back in The Day" it was about Winning the Races!!! now it's just about points :(
 
I would like to see NASCAR crown a wins champion and a points champion. Equal payout, and let the fans decide which means more. Then a 'unified' champion would have something to be really proud of.
 
FenderBumper said:
I see JJ and others going for the win a lot earlier than in the past. TMany teams used to ride around .......
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So ,you think that this is the week JJ is going to start trying to win ? I better take him in the pool then . Wait a second , why didn't he try last week ?
 
FenderBumper said:
I would like to see NASCAR crown a wins champion and a points champion. Equal payout, and let the fans decide which means more. Then a 'unified' champion would have something to be really proud of.
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So make it a popularity contest?:confused:
 
It must have been neat at last Monday's Hendrick meeting . Jimmy...".Sorry we didn't get you the 2ooth win Mr.H.".........Rick ,...."Yeah Jimmy , I thought you had it in the bag" .....Jimmy ..."".So did I until Chad told me to ease up ,I guess it's to early in the season to tip our hand.....Rick....."Yep ,you gotta wait till the chase."
 
ted@economy said:
So ,you think that this is the week JJ is going to start trying to win ? I better take him in the pool then . Wait a second , why didn't he try last week ?
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I say "I see JJ and others going for the win a lot earlier than in the past." and you respond "So ,you think that this is the week JJ is going to start trying to win"?????

Please stop reading my posts backwards. It's really annoying. :p
 
FenderBumper said:
I say "I see JJ and others going for the win a lot earlier than in the past." and you respond "So ,you think that this is the week JJ is going to start trying to win"?????

Please stop reading my posts backwards. It's really annoying. :p
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My question is..How do you know when they aren't trying?
 
FlFlash said:
:D Would'nt it be Sweet to see JR give Hendrick that sought after 200th Win! :D
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Jeff and Jimmy might be a little pissed , (but you wouldn't be able to tell). Jeff Gluck wouldn't attend the press conference . Jr. would get to read the top ten on Letterman . Andy would eat the angry bird.
 
ted@economy said:
My question is..How do you know when they aren't trying?
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Chad and JJ have said several times over the past few years that they use the early season to test things to make them better in the chase. Usually when people get worried because they aren't running up front. I haven't heard much of that this year. I'm thinking they are holding off on the test sessions and trying to get wins early. Maybe it's just me, but a lot of chase regulars seem to be all out for wins. Look how Biffle drove. That was a checkers or wreckers move. Things just seem different this year. There seems to be more hunger for wins. I think it will catch up, and we'll see some incidents and hurt feelings soon.
 
JimmieGordon2448 said:
IDK, even Gordon said at Daytona weren't really trying yet, we were waiting for the end, he probably got called in the trailer for that. :idunno:
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Yeah ..Hendrick's trailer. I assume he was talking about the race stratagy and not the year.
 
I highly doubt that these drivers are not trying to win races. I'm not sure where that comes from. They are race car drivers. I don't think that anything other than being the first to the line is in their mindset. Last year was a great example. Almost half the 2011 field won a race at some point during the season.
 
I'm all for 43 drivers/teams going into every race trying their hardest to win. I don't expect to see it happen but wouldn't mind if it did.
 
Again, how do you tell as a NASCAR television viewer if these guys are trying to win or not? What is that based on? Finishing position? Average running position? There is always going to be 42 losers out there each and every week. What is the cutoff position between those trying and those that aren't?

Sorry, I got up late. I need more coffee. It just seems like a silly notion to think that these guys aren't trying.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Again, how do you tell as a NASCAR television viewer if these guys are trying to win or not? What is that based on? Finishing position? Average running position? There is always going to be 42 losers out there each and every week. What is the cutoff position between those trying and those that aren't?

Sorry, I got up late. I need more coffee. It just seems like a silly notion to think that these guys aren't trying.
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Do you believe that all 43 teams start a race with the intent of winning? I certainly don't.
 
I should say that I don't think drivers are not wanting to win but I don't see the agression so far this year. I suspect that'll change soon enough - but not soon enough for all of us.

This will likely all go away immediately after HMS gets win #200 - hopefully at Homestead ;)
 
No need to try to catch me in some sort of start and park stuff. People seem to be saying that teams like Jimmie Johnson and Jeff Gordon aren't trying to win. I don't buy that argument.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
No need to try to catch me in some sort of start and park stuff. People seem to be saying that teams like Jimmie Johnson and Jeff Gordon aren't trying to win. I don't buy that argument.
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Fair enough.

However, you started the thread and asked the question so after three days and 80 replies, what's your theory?
 
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