So THATS what DEI was running

Originally posted by paul
:rolleyes:  

There was a thread yesterday where we were trying to figure out how they were getting such good fuel mileage.  So, today I started a thread with the answer.

Was there a thread about Tony Stewart's jacking bolts?
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No, there was no such thread that I was able to find. Exactly my point.

And that fuel mileage thing certainly didn't pan out to be an advantage, did it? Was it ever proven that they did something illegal to get this great fuel mileage? And does a can of "Cold Fire" really help fuel mileage anyway? You see my point? From my vantage point, you really seem to want those dots to connect. :rolleyes:

I just don't see it.
 
Have you ever heard of a fire extingusher?That is the same thing used.
 
Abooja, Abooja, Abooja...

http://www.racing-forums.com/bbs/showthrea...&threadid=10390

And was there any proof? Maybe it was the pitting 15-20 laps after everyone else was running out fuel.

I know that's a huge leap to take, from finding something that increases fuel mileage in their garage to getting better fuel mileage on the track but if you think real hard you might find the connection. ;)
 
Originally posted by paul
Abooja, Abooja, Abooja...

http://www.racing-forums.com/bbs/showthrea...&threadid=10390

And was there any proof?  Maybe it was the pitting 15-20 laps after everyone else was running out fuel.  

I know that's a huge leap to take, from finding something that increases fuel mileage in their garage to getting better fuel mileage on the track but if you think real hard you might find the connection. ;)
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That says it all, Paul. A "huge leap", indeed. :D
 
From what I've read elsewhere, the coolant can is a safety issue. It is apparently a written rule that no freon type chemicals are allowed near the fuel system. When freon burns it gives off mustard gas which can be fatal.

Now if this is true, jr should have a stiffer fine than JJ did because it presented a posible life threatening situation.

And as many people suggest, NASCAR is always stiff on people who violate safety rules.
 
Originally posted by abooja


That says it all, Paul. A "huge leap", indeed. :D
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You seriously think that's a huge leap? Like that's an unreasonable conclusion to come to?
 
Originally posted by fan1080
From what I've read elsewhere, the coolant can is a safety issue. It is apparently a written rule that no freon type chemicals are allowed near the fuel system. When freon burns it gives off mustard gas which can be fatal.

Now if this is true, jr should have a stiffer fine than JJ did because it presented a posible life threatening situation.

And as many people suggest, NASCAR is always stiff on people who violate safety rules.
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If that's the case, then fine him appropriately. Points, bucks, whatever is correct for the circumstance.

But don't try to suggest that this can was going to give Dale Jr. an unfair advantage in the race. That's just plain silly.
 
Originally posted by abooja
But don't try to suggest that this can was going to give Dale Jr. an unfair advantage in the race. That's just plain silly.
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lol

Yeah, DEI never cheats.
 
Originally posted by paul


You seriously think that's a huge leap?  Like that's an unreasonable conclusion to come to?
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Yes, I do. You even said so yourself.

Anyhow, show me the proof. How can you hold something against an organization if you can't prove that it's done something wrong? This is still America, you know.
 
I was saying so sarcastically. But you're not in denial right? How can you say it didn't do anything illegally, when an illegal can of some cooling crap was taken out of their garage. Is it not illegal because it was a DEI garage it was taken from?

I would put forth as circumstantial evidence that the extra 15-20 laps of fuel mileage he got as evidence that he got more fuel mileage. I know that takes a huge leap...seeing extra fuel mileage as extra fuel mileage.
 
What's all the fuss about? The can was not found in the car being used.

If the extra fuel mileage being compared is to Tony's, he has already said it was a fuel pickup problem that made them come in sooner.
 
How dare you say that about Ryan? What's with you conspiracy theorists?
 
Originally posted by paul
I was saying so sarcastically.  But you're not in denial right?

I would put forth as circumstantial evidence that the extra 15-20 laps of fuel mileage he got as evidence that he got more fuel mileage.
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You've also yet to prove how I'm in this "denial" you speak of so often. I've explained at least twice now how I believe that, like all teams in the Cup series, DEI probably does cheat. I've also said that I don't approve of cheating, and believe that cheating should be penalized appropriately, and across the board. Finally, I've said that, if Dale Jr.'s team cheated in Chicagoland by using that can of spray to either improve gas mileage or engine performance, first prove it, then penalize him appropriately as well.

I fail to understand how any part of this constitutes denial. :rolleyes:

I also fail to see any evidence that you've been able to put forth that proves that the engine cool-down spray found in Jr.'s garage can help improve gas mileage, as you've suggested. Fan has even said that it's considered more of a safety issue.

I'm not exactly trying to plead my boy's case here. Just wish you would dispense your criticisms a bit more evenly.
 
Me too TRL, me too. :D

Abooja, where did I not criticise other teams for cheating as well? Again (man I hate typing the same thing over and over again) I said that Tony Stewart should be fined and penalized etc etc as well.

So how am I not dispensing my criticisms evenly?
 
Well, if Ryan was getting the same number of laps, it must have been his can originally. Jr snuck into Ryan's garage to borrow it, and got caught with it in his garage. So, it's really all Ryan's fault! ;) :D
 
"COLD FIRE®
RAPID COOLDOWN SPRAY
This product was designed as a safety tool for trade applications. It is used to cool down hot surfaces rapidly. It is an excellent tool for plumbers, welders, roofers, mechanics . all those who work with hot surfaces and open flame. Several members of the motorized racing industry use this handy tool to cool down hot surfaces such as tires and brakes when cars come into the pit area. Available in 12 oz. air powered spray can, this product is light weight and easy to handle. Sprays in any direction, even upside down!"

Ok, so here's what ya do. Empty all the gas out of your tank and put it in external cans. Cool down the cans adding gas as the volume decreases due to the molecules packing themselves closer together. Might get a few ounces to 22 gallons. But that's not the best part.

The best part is that because the gas is colder when ya put it back in the tank the temp rise on ignition is greater. The greater the rise the more horsepower, the more horsepower the less throttle ya gotta use, and the less throttle ya use the better mileage ya get.

Now if you've happened to figure out how to keep a fuel line cooled down DURING a race (like running it thru an ice bucket, which btw HAS been tried) by spraying this stuff on the gas line as ya go along, or running yer gas cans from the pump to your garage stall and THEN to the pits, well shucky dern we are talking HUGE advantage in both horsepower and mileage.

Wowzer, what a great application of a very old idea!!!!!

So Paul......is that about what's up or have they some kind of on board compressor or something?
 
Originally posted by paul
Me too TRL, me too. :D

Abooja, where did I not criticise other teams for cheating as well?  Again (man I hate typing the same thing over and over again) I said that Tony Stewart should be fined and penalized etc etc as well.

So how am I not dispensing my criticisms evenly?
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You didn't say that about Tony Stewart until I first presented that information. I practically had to drag it out of you. :)
 
I'm not going to argue this one any longer. My point was, and still is, that you posted a thread about Dale Jr.'s penalty, and not one about Tony Stewart's penalty. I questioned why, and you proceeded to tell me that, as a Junior fan, I'm in denial about how DEI cheats. I said I wasn't. That's really all there is to it.

Now, this information that 71Fan has presented is much more interesting. Assuming that's true, are these products not allowed anywhere in the garage, or just not at certain times? Is it a product known in the garage area for imroving horsepower and gas mileage? If so, that was a dumbass move on DEI's part, just letting it sit around like that.
 
I've never heard of it being done before but I gotta tell ya, if that's the game they played, I'm impressed.
 
I am with ya 71fan, so simple to do:) Mabey I messed it but how would the officals test for such a substance? Does it bond with the fuel and could be tested there? Had 2 years of chemisty but I can't think how it works right now:)
 
No NateDogg.....just spray it on the container. Drops the temp and the rest is basic chemistry. But i'm not sure that's what they did with it tho it seems reasonable. If they used it as an additive? Well that's definately against the rules.

I'm just wondering if this even close to what Paul was yakkin when he brought this up. Paul?
 
Motor Max is a revolutionary cooling system additive that works to disperse heat across your engine more effectively, allowing fuel to be burned more efficiently.

Seems pretty straightforward. :)
 
Originally posted by paul
Motor Max is a revolutionary cooling system additive that works to disperse heat across your engine more effectively, allowing fuel to be burned more efficiently.

Seems pretty straightforward. :)
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Yah, that's Motor Max, wise guy, not Cold Fire. :satisfied

They're discussed simultaneously, which get confusing, but it's not the Cold Fire (Rapid Cooling) that helps engines to burn fuel more efficiently.

Or is it?? Still :confused:
 
Both......cooler gas equals greater horsepower, cooler engines means tigher tolerances resulting in higher compression which equals more horsepower.

Not so sure they can't run the engine coolant of their choice tho so that sure wouldn't seem to be a factor.

btw Paul, you open worm cans real good. gotta take you fishin sometime.:)
 
On race day, how long can we belive the fuel would be able to hold a temperature low enough to be any type of HP factor. Plus add the fuel to a relatively hot fuel cell and another number of degrees are lost. Can't see any real gains there.

Like 71 said, if they figured aout a way to cool it en route to engine with a spray can, I'm impressed.

Still betting here the were spraying it on the intake manifold to reduce the effect of heat cycles on the engine. You might even get the manifold cold enough to make a diff during a qualifyijg run, but during a race it would be a non factor.

Edit add on: Maybe Mike and Steve were manipulating the spray can while entering pit road Sunday:D
 
From my view it looks like this,
Cooling fuel which is one frequently in drag racing compresses the molecules allowing more fuel to be inducted into the combustion chamber increasing horse power.
Conversely, mileage aiding devices heat fuel to excite the molecules to increase vaporization and aid in thourough burning increasing efficency.
71 fan did make me think about the idea of making more power and being able to throttle back some to save fuel, but I really couldn't see any way of this all actually occuring. As HardScrabble stated any effects of cooling the fuel would be lost rapidly unless there was a way of maintaining the lower temp. Windsor may be able to shed even more light on the subject. Well there's my 2 cents, I hope I don't get to much change back.
 
It sounds like there's something of a consensus here that the can of Cold Fire could not have really helped Dale Jr.'s gas mileage at Chicagoland. :D
 
Big deal, so they got away with it.

Not the first time and won't be the last.
 
:rolleyes:

Getting away with something suggests DEI did something wrong with that can of spray, and the nice people here have just explained how that's unlikely, given that particular product. :)

DEI does and will continue to "get away with" stuff, but no more or less than any other organization, IMHO.
 
Oh, so NASCAR confiscated it because it was legal?

Denial?

No one is saying that other teams don't cheat. You're the one insisting that DEI isn't.
 
Originally posted by paul
Oh, so NASCAR confiscated it because it was legal?

Denial?

No one is saying that other teams don't cheat.  You're the one insisting that DEI isn't.
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Please don't use that word again.

I'm just saying that no one yet knows why NASCAR confiscated that can. According to some informed opinions around here, it can't really do anything to improve horsepower or gas mileage. I don't for sure, of course, because I'm not a mechanic. That's why I was trying to get more information on the subject.

Oh, and here's an example of how I "insist" that DEI doesn't cheat:

"DEI does and will continue to "get away with" stuff, but no more or less than any other organization, IMHO."

:rolleyes:
 
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