Someone is going to die in these cars!!!

Your brain hitting the inside of your skull is what causes concussions. I don't think seat or helmet padding is going to reduce G forces.
I read that when they were test crashing this car they recorded data that "would've killed a human."
 
Spotter22 said:
Putting shocks on the seat?
Click to expand...
Maybe, I am not an engineer. Its just a thought I have. You would
obviously need a shock that could hold together in a 200 mph crash.
Maybe even super heavy duty springs. Something to dissipate the energy
before it gets to the head.
 
Same people continue to complain that the cars are going too slow. Reducing speed is one way to reduce G forces, increasing the length of the period of the crash is another. Safer walls, Hans devices, seat and helmet padding, sacrificial crumple zones in the car all increase the "period" (length of deceleration ) of a crash.
 
BobbyFord said:
Crumple zones. This car needs to absorb more of the energy during a crash.
Click to expand...
Yeah that to, but there goes the durability in crashes
we were so proud of at the beginning of the season. If we soften the car
up too much , then teams will need to bring a couple backups every weekend.
 
Hotrod said:
Yeah that to, but there goes the durability in crashes
we were so proud of at the beginning of the season. If we soften the car
up too much , then teams will need to bring a couple backups every weekend.
Click to expand...
To the untrained eye (mine) I think the Xfinity cars have a pretty good balance between fixable to continue to race and total junk, take it to the hauler.
I think the next gen has taken that to a higher level and they need to step it back a hair because the car appears fine but the driver is ready to go to the hauler.
 
Hotrod said:
Maybe, I am not an engineer. Its just a thought I have. You would
obviously need a shock that could hold together in a 200 mph crash.
Maybe even super heavy duty springs. Something to dissipate the energy
before it gets to the head.
Click to expand...
Nothing wrong with spitballing and trouble shooting. If we put a shock on the seat then you have to design it to move and that's something we dont want to do. That seat needs to be completely stationary.
 
StandOnIt said:
Safer barriers weren't invented yet when Sr passed away.
Click to expand...

They actually were, the first installations went in at Indy three months after Dale's death, and the IRL was the MAJOR moving force in advancing the technology, NASCAR's role was much smaller, despite being a much bigger organization.
 
Spotter22 said:
You have zero data to back up what you say, you dont know what they tested or didnt test. Bowman had concussion "like" symptoms, he has yet to be diagnosed with it. The older generation cars did not prevent concussions just like the Gen7 but no one knew the ramifications or the serious of it back then but it is front and center today with CTE studies. Race cars will never be 100% "concussion safe", running 200 mph and hitting things will never bring good results

Throttles hanging, drivers repositioning seatbelts were ALL addressed BEFORE the deaths.
Click to expand...

No, racing will never be concussion free, but we simply cannot have drivers missing races from wrecks that weren't even hard enough to knock the rear bumper cover off. You're right, I DON'T know what they tested, all I know is that the car they approved was inadequate in protecting drivers from this type of impact. Whatever they did or didn't do, they got it WRONG. When you have MULTIPLE drivers saying that relatively minor crashes are the hardest hits they have ever had in their life, that ought to tell you something. When you hit a wall SOMETHING has to give. I would much rather it be the car than the driver.
 
Hotrod said:
Yeah that to, but there goes the durability in crashes
we were so proud of at the beginning of the season. If we soften the car
up too much , then teams will need to bring a couple backups every weekend.
Click to expand...

The hauler is going to the track every week anyway. Doesn't really matter if it has one car in it or two.
 
StandOnIt said:
Same people continue to complain that the cars are going too slow. Reducing speed is one way to reduce G forces, increasing the length of the period of the crash is another. Safer walls, Hans devices, seat and helmet padding, sacrificial crumple zones in the car all increase the "period" (length of deceleration ) of a crash.
Click to expand...

One of the MANY problems with this car is that what speed it does have is in the wrong place, the corners. That makes for bad racing AND worse wrecks.
 
Formerjackman said:
They actually were, the first installations went in at Indy three months after Dale's death, and the IRL was the MAJOR moving force in advancing the technology, NASCAR's role was much smaller, despite being a much bigger organization.
Click to expand...
This is more half truths.


Only a year after Earnhardt’s fatal crash, the newly invented SAFER barrier debuted at the Indianapolis 500.

SAFER Barriers at NASCAR | Lemelson

invention.si.edu invention.si.edu
 
Spotter22 said:
Putting shocks on the seat?
Click to expand...
Maybe not shocks on a seat but the thought of modifying the seat mounting is a good idea. IMO definitely something that can be looked into

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
 
Spotter22 said:
Nothing wrong with spitballing and trouble shooting. If we put a shock on the seat then you have to design it to move and that's something we dont want to do. That seat needs to be completely stationary.
Click to expand...
Does it? Why? Obviously you don't want it to break free and have the driver thrown around the car but if you can increase the deceleration time with the seat it might be worth looking into

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
 
wi_racefan said:
Does it? Why? Obviously you don't want it to break free and have the driver thrown around the car but if you can increase the deceleration time with the seat it might be worth looking into

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Sure in theory that would help but in reality you dont want to take a chance on that seat coming loose or the shock failing on impact. While I'm typing this i'm envisioning me putting the seat in as it currently is and how and where I could mount a shock and where i'm placing it on the seat. I'm assuming I would have to put it on runners the same as a passenger car to allow movement. None of that sounds good to me and I'm not sure you could get a driver to get in it.
 
Spotter22 said:
Sure in theory that would help but in reality you dont want to take a chance on that seat coming loose or the shock failing on impact. While I'm typing this i'm envisioning me putting the seat in as it currently is and how and where I could mount a shock and where i'm placing it on the seat. I'm assuming I would have to put it on runners the same as a passenger car to allow movement. None of that sounds good to me and I'm not sure you could get a driver to get in it.
Click to expand...

Actually I was thinking of mounting the seat with some type of shock absorbing material between the seat and the roll cage.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
 
wi_racefan said:
Actually I was thinking of mounting the seat with some type of shock absorbing material between the seat and the roll cage.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
There’s a new compression absorbing seat mounting system for sprint car seats that does just that but in the vertical plane only. It’s intended to prevent vertebrae and spinal cord injuries. Kasey Kahne has had it installed in all his cars.

CASM Safety Products – ***When you run out of Talent—We Got Your Back***

casmsafetyproducts.com casmsafetyproducts.com
 
wi_racefan said:
Actually I was thinking of mounting the seat with some type of shock absorbing material between the seat and the roll cage.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
The seat is mounted to the floor and the crossbar behind the seat. I'm trying to think of where you could use material like that. The cage off to the left is already filled with that material, no where to the right to put any thing. The rollcage where the seat mounts to is pretty much an open space behind it. Its entirely possible the mounting points have changed with the new car, I'm going off when I mounted them a while back.
 
aunty dive said:
There’s a new compression absorbing seat mounting system for sprint car seats that does just that but in the vertical plane only. It’s intended to prevent vertebrae and spinal cord injuries. Kasey Kahne has had it installed in all his cars.

CASM Safety Products – ***When you run out of Talent—We Got Your Back***

casmsafetyproducts.com casmsafetyproducts.com
Click to expand...


Looks simple. Keep those two absorbers and add a couple more in the back of the seat for the Nascars. The belts and the hans would have to be moved to the seat itself so they would work independently of the shocks
 
Spotter22 said:
Putting shocks on the seat?
Click to expand...
I was thinking along the lines of a seat, or a seat within a seat, with maybe some of the expanded metal that they use for crush panels in between. The seat and headrest would have some give in the event of a crash, but would otherwise be solid.
 
Spotter22 said:
Nothing wrong with spitballing and trouble shooting. If we put a shock on the seat then you have to design it to move and that's something we dont want to do. That seat needs to be completely stationary.
Click to expand...
That seat could be stationary up to a certain amount of force beyond what a driver would see in normal driving conditions.Great idea here.
 
Formerjackman said:
Sorry, my mistake. I misread the source I used. It WAS 2002. Regardless, the IRL was out front on the whole idea of energy absorbing walls, much more so than NASCAR.
Click to expand...

Energy absorbing walls were coming regardless of the NASCAR deaths in 2001. The SAFER wall concept was well well underway by Feb '01. Many forget about the PEDS barrier tests in the late 90s. People also forge the HANS device and the various similar systems were available to drivers in the mid-90s onward.

While the rash of driver deaths in the late 90s/early 200s are often given the legacy of the HANS device and the SAFER walls, their true legacy is the COT. That project began with those driver deaths in mind. The HANS device, frankly, was a knee-jerk reaction (a very good decision that saved lives but NASCAR had no part in it other than mandating it's use eventually by the end of '01. SAFER walls weren't even at every track til Dover '05 I believe.
 
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