Someone is going to die in these cars!!!

StandOnIt said:
yes it is. 180 MPH proves that
Click to expand...

Does the Mach 3 SR71 fly under different laws of aerodynamics than the Wright Flyer? Sound testing methods and the analytics behind them will translate regardless of the speed.
 
Formerjackman said:
There is next to NOTHING that can be done at any point during the season, which is why you HAVE to get the important stuff right from the get go, especially since you no longer have hundreds of race team employees doing the work. Any changes made have to come from ONE place, and you can't put anything on the track until they can make at least 40 copies of it.
Click to expand...
Think you're right. There needs to be a higher level of accountability to begin with and maybe the driver's concerns should have been taken into account more than "shut up and drive." The ball was dropped from the beginning for this car in terms of some obvious safety aspects. The question is what are we going to do now? Are they even going to listen to the drivers now? Did they listen to begin with? I was of the mind that NASCAR would never bring a new car out if there was a severe danger to the drivers when the rumors of the crash dummies not doing well begin to trickle out around this time last year. I may have been wrong, these fellas are taking very hard hits....as a fan this whole deal has been deeply disappointing to see play out.
 
To me this is one of these deals that were past the point of saying "we're looking into it". Tell me what you're doing right now. Don't tell me what you're doing next, I want to know what is being done right NOW.

Are you running simulations?
Have you came up with possible solutions?
Is anything in Fabrication? If not why not?
Why are we not testing anything yet?

IMO the amount of resources that teams have that Nascar could easily utilize is ridiculous. Honestly if you gave any of the big teams a design change for a new clip on Monday I'd he shocked if it wasn't ready to test by Friday. Same deal if you went to these teams and said build me what you think is the best solution and bring it to the tech center in 5 days. I'd be willing to bet there would be at least a handful of parts there 5 days later. In the past teams rarely had the same issues more than once because in the matter of a week they solved it. You can't say fabrication time is an issue to gets parts to all teams, all you have to do is go to the major teams and say I need 40 of these made between everyone. Parts would be turned over to nascar and distributed on a random basis so that no one can make parts better to help themselves or worse to hurt the competition. I understand the whole single source supplier but I think this a good solution on an emergency basis.
 
Most Cup fab shops are currently un-manned except for a skeleton crew building headers and other small parts.

Little or no suitable steel tubing inventory. RFK auctioned off a lot of their fab shop tools and equipment. NASCAR is too far down this path to make a u-turn in a week.
 
aunty dive said:
Most Cup fab shops are currently un-manned except for a skeleton crew building headers and other small parts.

Little or no suitable steel tubing inventory. RFK auctioned off a lot of their fab shop tools and equipment. NASCAR is too far down this path to make a u-turn in a week.
Click to expand...
I'm waiting for someone to suggest running the long gone last year's car..day after tomorrow.
 
aunty dive said:
Most Cup fab shops are currently un-manned except for a skeleton crew building headers and other small parts.

Little or no suitable steel tubing inventory. RFK auctioned off a lot of their fab shop tools and equipment. NASCAR is too far down this path to make a u-turn in a week.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry I deal with having to gets parts fabricated on an emergency basis all the time and that's a very poor excuse. When people claim they can't get something done my reply is always there's two reasons you say this can't be done, tell me which one it is.

1) You're too lazy to go through the work of finding someone to do it
2) You're too cheap to pay someone to do it.

That usually pisses them off but it's always been my experience that you can get anything made and for enough money they will work on it around the clock until its done.
 
wi_racefan said:
I'm sorry I deal with having to gets parts fabricated on an emergency basis all the time and that's a very poor excuse. When people claim they can't get something done my reply is always there's two reasons you say this can't be done, tell me which one it is.

1) You're too lazy to go through the work of finding someone to do it
2) You're too cheap to pay someone to do it.

That usually pisses them off but it's always been my experience that you can get anything made and for enough money they will work on it around the clock until its done.
Click to expand...
Scale.

Nobody is turning this boat around in a week.
 
aunty dive said:
Scale.

Nobody is turning this boat around in a week.
Click to expand...
Highly doubtful they can do it in the 6 race time frame they have left. Probably can be able to do some small stuff if they can figure out what the problem is. As illustrated above, the car has had some big hits with minimal driver injuries, so some areas are working well.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Drivers should boycott the Talladega race to be honest. I don’t think I’ve ever been as scared about a race as I am this one.
Click to expand...

1969 - Talladega Boycott.jpg
 
StandOnIt said:
Highly doubtful they can do it in the 6 race time frame they have left. Probably can be able to do some small stuff if they can figure out what the problem is. As illustrated above, the car has had some big hits with minimal driver injuries, so some areas are working well.
Click to expand...
So what happens if they get some solutions in 5 weeks and keep a driver from getting hurt in race was it worth it? You can either man an effort or an excuse

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
 
wi_racefan said:
So what happens if they get some solutions in 5 weeks and keep a driver from getting hurt in race was it worth it? You can either man an effort or an excuse

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I have no idea what is going to happen, but like I said MY opinion. I don't think anything major is going to be able to get done in the 6 race time frame. Maybe they will make a lair out of me and totally re-design the whole car.
 
Well Jordan Anderson just about did...but that's cause he was half out the window when his burning truck hit the inside wall.
 
WhiningSmoke said:
Yeah.... but Kyle Busch is the constant in NASCAR. It doesn’t upset me when people insist one of those are better than him..... but when people start insisting Tyler Reddick is better than Kyle Busch that crosses a line. KFB in the 8 is a championship contender. KFB in the 18 gets his engines sabotaged. Tyler Reddick in the 8 only has won 3 races instead of the 6 he could’ve won..... dude has a Top 3 car in the field but is too inexperienced to do anything but get knocked out in the Round of 16. Kyle Busch wouldn’t have.... because he wouldn’t have blown a tire at Fontana sweating Erik Jones’ 43 car nor would he have let Chase Briscoe get close enough to dump him at the dirt track.
Click to expand...
Kyle Busch is better than Reddick. He also won't be in his prime forever.

So what's the issue?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 
wi_racefan said:
To me this is one of these deals that were past the point of saying "we're looking into it". Tell me what you're doing right now. Don't tell me what you're doing next, I want to know what is being done right NOW.

Are you running simulations?
Have you came up with possible solutions?
Is anything in Fabrication? If not why not?
Why are we not testing anything yet?

IMO the amount of resources that teams have that Nascar could easily utilize is ridiculous. Honestly if you gave any of the big teams a design change for a new clip on Monday I'd he shocked if it wasn't ready to test by Friday. Same deal if you went to these teams and said build me what you think is the best solution and bring it to the tech center in 5 days. I'd be willing to bet there would be at least a handful of parts there 5 days later. In the past teams rarely had the same issues more than once because in the matter of a week they solved it. You can't say fabrication time is an issue to gets parts to all teams, all you have to do is go to the major teams and say I need 40 of these made between everyone. Parts would be turned over to nascar and distributed on a random basis so that no one can make parts better to help themselves or worse to hurt the competition. I understand the whole single source supplier but I think this a good solution on an emergency basis.
Click to expand...
This. I echoed the sentiment about 3 weeks ago. It's not about forcing a solution. We know it's not an overnight fix. The drivers know this. We all know this. It's about having decent human courtesy and respect for the drivers frustrations as people.

Keep them in the loop. As NASCAR the sanctioning body, I think they're duty is to at least be in constant communication with the drivers and do what they can to ease some of the frustrations that the drivers are having, or at least make it feel like they're being heard. The drivers are obviously not feeling heard and they're saying that. They all know they can't fix this during the 2022 season. That doesn't mean the drivers shouldn't be talking to a brick wall.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 
Formerjackman said:
It's not a different animal when it comes to the methodology of the testing and properly analyzing the results. You are basically left with two options. Either NASCAR's testing methods were flawed, or they ignored or undervalued the results. Did they test ANYTHING other then top speed frontal impacts?
Click to expand...
You are magnificent at speculation. If you dont know what kind of tests they are doing how can you suggest they undervalue anything and then you suggest that they may have even ignored it, thats probably the dumbest thing I've heard. To suggest one of the worlds largest Sanctioning bodies that prides itself on being the Industry leader in safety is purposely over looking data that would endanger the lives of its drivers is pathetic.
 
jaqua19 said:
This. I echoed the sentiment about 3 weeks ago. It's not about forcing a solution. We know it's not an overnight fix. The drivers know this. We all know this. It's about having decent human courtesy and respect for the drivers frustrations as people.

Keep them in the loop. As NASCAR the sanctioning body, I think they're duty is to at least be in constant communication with the drivers and do what they can to ease some of the frustrations that the drivers are having, or at least make it feel like they're being heard. The drivers are obviously not feeling heard and they're saying that. They all know they can't fix this during the 2022 season. That doesn't mean the drivers shouldn't be talking to a brick wall.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
NASCAR is in touch and they are involving the drivers association in every detail. Plenty of evidence of this in numerous articles. Hell Andy Petree just gave did a live conference saying as much.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Drivers should boycott the Talladega race to be honest. I don’t think I’ve ever been as scared about a race as I am this one.
Click to expand...
I think something is coming. Maybe not this week, but maybe next February when all eyes are on he sport.
 
Spotter22 said:
You are magnificent at speculation. If you dont know what kind of tests they are doing how can you suggest they undervalue anything and then you suggest that they may have even ignored it, thats probably the dumbest thing I've heard. To suggest one of the worlds largest Sanctioning bodies that prides itself on being the Industry leader in safety is purposely over looking data that would endanger the lives of its drivers is pathetic.
Click to expand...
It's painfully obvious that either they never tested a car backing into the wall or they didn't correctly analyze their data, because there is no way in hell Bowman's wreck should have resulted in a concussion. NASCAR may pride themselves on safety, but they usually have to be dragged to it. It took four dead drivers to get safer barriers and Hans devices, and if one of them hadn't been Dale Earnhardt, who knows how much longer they would have pissed around. How many years did it take to get full safer barrier coverage? Kyle Busch was still hitting an unprotected wall in 2015.
 
Formerjackman said:
It's painfully obvious that either they never tested a car backing into the wall or they didn't correctly analyze their data, because there is no way in hell Bowman's wreck should have resulted in a concussion. NASCAR may pride themselves on safety, but they usually have to be dragged to it. It took four dead drivers to get safer barriers and Hans devices, and if one of them hadn't been Dale Earnhardt, who knows how much longer they would have pissed around. How many years did it take to get full safer barrier coverage? Kyle Busch was still hitting an unprotected wall in 2015.
Click to expand...
Safer barriers weren't invented yet when Sr passed away.
 
Formerjackman said:
It's painfully obvious that either they never tested a car backing into the wall or they didn't correctly analyze their data, because there is no way in hell Bowman's wreck should have resulted in a concussion. NASCAR may pride themselves on safety, but they usually have to be dragged to it. It took four dead drivers to get safer barriers and Hans devices, and if one of them hadn't been Dale Earnhardt, who knows how much longer they would have pissed around. How many years did it take to get full safer barrier coverage? Kyle Busch was still hitting an unprotected wall in 2015.
Click to expand...
You have zero data to back up what you say, you dont know what they tested or didnt test. Bowman had concussion "like" symptoms, he has yet to be diagnosed with it. The older generation cars did not prevent concussions just like the Gen7 but no one knew the ramifications or the serious of it back then but it is front and center today with CTE studies. Race cars will never be 100% "concussion safe", running 200 mph and hitting things will never bring good results

Throttles hanging, drivers repositioning seatbelts were ALL addressed BEFORE the deaths.
 
BobbyFord said:
Fortunately nothing big happened today. Safe race. Boring, but safe.
Click to expand...
I thought it was fantastic. Everyone drove like they had sense ( Ricky Stenhouse not withstanding) great strategy calls, very competitive and a tremendous finish.
 
Spotter22 said:
I thought it was fantastic. Everyone drove like they had sense ( Ricky Stenhouse not withstanding) great strategy calls, very competitive and a tremendous finish.
Click to expand...
See, I agree with this 100%. Great race.
 
StandOnIt said:
What is YOUR solution (or anybodies else) with 6 races left in the season.
Click to expand...
Maybe a seat modification? That might be something they could do quickly, but I don't really know how much they can do. More padding in the back?
 
Ol Smokie said:
Maybe a seat modification? That might be something they could do quickly, but I don't really know how much they can do. More padding in the back?
Click to expand...
Yeah along the same lines, Logano (who I happen to think is pretty smart) said he was checking over and adding padding to his helmet where needed and he was tightening up the movement of his Hans device.
 
You have a unique situation in racing. Guys who don't drive ultimately make the decisions for those who do. Those who do assume the risk. How much communication is necessary for those who assume the risk before they are empowered? Good question. However, I think with technologies available today (simulations, etc.), I would hope that the sanctioning body would have a greater ability to anticipate what is necessary to keep drivers safe before somebody dies. The justifiable hysteria is coming from the fact that drivers are getting hurt. The next step down this path is unthinkable....and Talladega was a place ripe for the unthinkable for obvious reasons. No track is perfectly safe, but I think what remains isn't what Dega is....so, to @StandOnIt point, I don't know that much needs or can be done this season, but NASCAR had better have a response before the 500, and it sounds like they will.
 
Remember why concrete walls were built in the first place, to try and protect the grandstand fans
better than wood boards and armco. If no fans were being killed the walls were doing their job.
Tragedy, technology and time evolves things. Now we have walls that protect fans and drivers.

Ol Smokie hit on something I have been thinking about. Two things in my mind
are shock absorbers and the seat cacoon. I dont know how or if it would work.
 
Hotrod said:
Remember why concrete walls were built in the first place, to try and protect the grandstand fans
better than wood boards and armco. If no fans were being killed the walls were doing their job.
Tragedy, technology and time evolves things. Now we have walls that protect fans and drivers.

Ol Smokie hit on something I have been thinking about. Two things in my mind
are shock absorbers and the seat cacoon. I dont know how or if it would work.
Click to expand...
Putting shocks on the seat?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom