Discussion in 'NASCAR chat' started by AndyMarquisLive, Mar 11, 2019.

  1. AndyMarquisLive

    AndyMarquisLive Short Track Fanatic

    Article on the Chase Elliott fiasco.

    As most people here know, I'm probably Chase's harshest critic on here. But man, he got boned in my opinion.

    The start and restart rules have bothered me for years. If the leader can't be beat to the start/finish line, then that should be where the race starts -- not in between turn four and the start/finish line.

    And the restart box has driven me bonkers for a decade now. I've seen that silly rule cause numerous crashes over the years. Just like the start, if they're going to restart in turn four, have a restart line and go from there. If the leader doesn't go at the line, he loses the spot fair and square. If he is beat to that line, the car that passes gets penalized.

    Not to mention, having a "line" makes it even more apparent as to whether a car spun the tires or didn't go or brake checked - whereas a restart zone and a start zone makes it perfectly acceptable to slow down or gives one, and only one car, latitude for a mistake.

    All these rules now that they have in NASCAR and short track racing complicate a simple procedure.
    Blaze, pjmolo, FLRacingFan and 3 others like this.
  2. Zerkfitting

    Zerkfitting Team Owner

    Maybe they should let the flagman signal restarts.
    RacerrecaR and Charlie Spencer like this.
  3. dpkimmel2001

    dpkimmel2001 Team Owner

    They explained on the broadcast the leader has to be the one to start the race. Driver's normally abide by this rule. Chase didn't either intentional but most likely unintentionally. Whatever the case, it's the rule. Not a huge deal IMO. You gotta have rules.
    Turtle84, Ventisca and Spotter22 like this.
  4. Spotter22

    Spotter22 Team Owner

    Its not a problem, its a rule and I cant remember a start penalty in the last 5 years.
    dpkimmel2001 likes this.
  5. SpeedPagan

    SpeedPagan The iRacing Guru

    Honestly, I think once the lead car has started the race in the start/restart zone, that should be it. When the lead car goes, everyone can go.
    sdj, Whiskyb, ChexOrWrex and 3 others like this.
  6. Johali

    Johali Team Owner Contributor

    That's too easy.
    SpeedPagan and Charlie Spencer like this.
  7. Charlie Spencer

    Charlie Spencer Short tracks and road courses rule.

    Sidebar: I've thought for a couple of years now that the flagman is irrelevant. Sure, he looks good up there, but he doesn't do anything that can't be done with a big honkin' video board on the stand and remotely controlled green / yellow lights in the cars. Those would also be faster than having someone else make the decision and telling the flagman to wave the yellow.
    Zerkfitting and JBone88 like this.
  8. SpeedPagan

    SpeedPagan The iRacing Guru

    I forgot that the France family likes it to be as stupidly complicated as possible.
    Johali likes this.
  9. AndyMarquisLive

    AndyMarquisLive Short Track Fanatic

    You've got to have rules but they should be kept simple. The drivers want this crap because it allows them to play the game and gives more control to the lead car.

    Blaney didn't get a good start. This should not have been a penalty. Not to mention, Blaney led Elliott going into turn one.
    Blaze and Johali like this.
  10. Ventisca

    Ventisca Team Owner Contributor

    It's a simple rule.
    dpkimmel2001 and Charlie Spencer like this.
  11. SpeedPagan

    SpeedPagan The iRacing Guru

    I think the flagman is mostly a tradition aspect at this point. Plus, it's another way for NASCAR to sell sponsorship spots. How many time have we heard "And here come X COMPANY green flag!"
  12. ChexOrWrex

    ChexOrWrex Ya gotta wanna

    The leader did start the race. He just didnt make it to the line first.

    Stupid rule.
    Blaze and AndyMarquisLive like this.
  13. FLRacingFan

    FLRacingFan Team Owner

    Flagmen are pretty uniquely American at this point. Much of the rest of the world seems to use some form of lighting system now. I don't see the flagman going away anytime soon though - too ingrained in the culture.

    I do think the rule, as it is now, allows for too much toying around on the leader's part. And punishing the guy who didn't screw up the start doesn't make much sense to me. It seems like obeying would potentially jack up the field pretty well.
  14. ChexOrWrex

    ChexOrWrex Ya gotta wanna

    More bullfuckery

    AndyMarquisLive likes this.
  15. Spotter22

    Spotter22 Team Owner

    What if the lead car doesnt start the race?
  16. ChexOrWrex

    ChexOrWrex Ya gotta wanna

    Then it’s a penalty...
    SpeedPagan likes this.
  17. Spotter22

    Spotter22 Team Owner

    Broke the rule. pass through penalty was proper
    Charlie Spencer likes this.
  18. Spotter22

    Spotter22 Team Owner

    Right, its a penalty if you beat the leader to the line, thats what Chase did. End of story.
    Ilovedthe90s and Ventisca like this.
  19. SpeedPagan

    SpeedPagan The iRacing Guru

    Blaney spun his tires though, Chase can't control that. What was he supposed to do, put on the brakes and get rear ended?
    Blaze and Whiskyb like this.
  20. ChexOrWrex

    ChexOrWrex Ya gotta wanna

    Beating the leader to the line =/= starting the race. Thats why the rule is stupid.

    Blaney started the race. Chase had a solid reaction, better traction, and beat Ryan to the line.
  21. Spotter22

    Spotter22 Team Owner

    And broke the rule
  22. Spotter22

    Spotter22 Team Owner

    Pedal it, whatever you need to do. It happens more often then you think on starts and restarts but they manage to control it.
  23. ChexOrWrex

    ChexOrWrex Ya gotta wanna

    Because the rule is stupid
    Blaze and AndyMarquisLive like this.
  24. SpeedPagan

    SpeedPagan The iRacing Guru

    The rules doesn't make sense. The lead car can start the race in the start/restart zone, but the race doesn't actually begin til he crosses the start/finish line. I phrase it like that because if the start/restart zone actually started the race, then it wouldn't matter who crossed the start/finish line first because the race would have already been under way. It doesn't make sense.

    Either the race starts when the lead car goes in the start/restart zone, or the race starts at the start/finish line, pick one.
    RacerrecaR and gnomesayin like this.
  25. Spotter22

    Spotter22 Team Owner

    No, its stupid to break it. Go back and tell me how many people were penalized in the last 20 years the rule has been in effect.
  26. nitetrain

    nitetrain Crew Chief

    I race a 410 sprint car and we start at a line at the exit of turn 4. Side note if a person waits to start at the line you are late. You can't go blatantly early but don't be late or wait till the line. It is like drag racing go on yellow.
    Anyway my point being is every short track knows how to do it. Only Nascar can break the KISS rule.
    The flag man waves the green for the start and then every man for themselves. All subsequent restarts at a line and no one should jump the leader but after he goes it should not matter who beats who to the line. But if the leader having all control and leading to the line is that important just have Delaware restarts.
    I have to ask you Spotter22 so if Jimmy Spencer starting 18th got his front end caved in on the start because you think the outside guy should pedal it or slow down. I would like to see you explain that philosophy to Jimmy. I know all about how is Dad; Ed, and family raced. Because they raced at my local dirt tracks and with many guys I know.
    Blaze, ChexOrWrex and gnomesayin like this.
  27. AndyMarquisLive

    AndyMarquisLive Short Track Fanatic

    Plus Blaney still led going into turn one and Elliott passed him again.

    These rules have bothered me for a long time. I saw a lot of torn up racecars one night at Myrtle Beach because the leader kept either playing games or spinning his tires and they kept crashing on the frontstretch on the restart.

    I've seen tracks that had rules that the leader could not be passed on a restart until after you exit the second turn. I mean, they might as well do Delaware starts and restarts in racing the way rules are being written so the leader can't be passed.
  28. AndyMarquisLive

    AndyMarquisLive Short Track Fanatic

    It's killing me having to defend Chase Elliott @ChexOrWrex
    SpeedPagan and ChexOrWrex like this.
  29. gnomesayin

    gnomesayin Team Owner

    have always been my preference.

    I don't know what basis anyone has for believing the rule has been in place for 20 years or is set in stone.
    They've been doing double file restarts for lead lap cars since mid-2009, and there have been adjustments to the procedures since. There is no tradition to the rule, and everything in NASCAR is subject to change. As recently as 2013, they stated that the second place car could beat the leader to the line so long as the race was started correctly in the restart zone.

    Having said all that, this was a rare occurrence in recent years. I think it would make more sense to simply make sure the leader starts the race first in the zone and let it be from there, or do Delaware restarts. But the current rules aren't a frequent issue.
    ChexOrWrex likes this.
  30. ChexOrWrex

    ChexOrWrex Ya gotta wanna

    Was just about to post this. I saw 20 years and laughed.
    dpkimmel2001 likes this.
  31. dpkimmel2001

    dpkimmel2001 Team Owner

    I look at this whole debate and laugh. ;)
    Ilovedthe90s and LewTheShoe like this.
  32. RacerrecaR

    RacerrecaR Orange cone

    I will preface this by saying this isn't a good idea as a NASCAR purist...

    The one and only way to alleviate the start/restart confusion is to have the leader be single-file ahead of the pack prior to the green flag. Everyone from 2nd-39th would be double-wide and the 40th car would also be single file. An added bonus to this would be providing the pole sitter (or race leader) with an advantage that they earned, and hopefully reduce wrecks in overtime scenarios.

    The leader would still control the start but if they spin the tires and can't cross the line first, it is their problem and no penalties should be assessed. Problem solved
  33. Turtle84

    Turtle84 Team Owner

    That is the rule on restarts now, if I'm correct. Once the lead car goes, everyone can go and it doesn't matter who beats who to the line.

    They probably should consider changing it for the start of the race, and reward the pole sitter with a playoff point instead.

    As is, Chase for sure could have pedaled it a half car length and not got run over. He wouldn't have been the only one to have to do such a thing, for the start of the race.
  34. Team Penske

    Team Penske Team Owner

    I find it funny that some peeps can't distinguish between a Race Start and a Restart.
    I don't think there is any reason why they should revisit this rule. Maybe Chase needs to focus more, maybe his CC and Spotter need to remind him again and again at the start of every race.

    We go through all the expense and BS of qualifying for two reasons. Pit selection and the pole
    on the race start. Other wise just go back to practice speeds "best 10 lap average". and line them up with pit selection according to point totals after last race.
    Qualifying to me is a useless cost and a waste of time. Look at how few fans are even there.
    Spotter22 and RacerrecaR like this.
  35. Johali

    Johali Team Owner Contributor

    Every time that happens the driver should slam on brakes and take out half of the field. Sooner or later O'Donnell will get out of his jackass mode and fix it.
    Blaze and sdj like this.
  36. DIDIT

    DIDIT Old School Fan

    Do you want objectivity or subjectivity? When it comes to the later in the NASCAR world it usually leads to problems.
  37. Zerkfitting

    Zerkfitting Team Owner

    I'm not a fan of the restart zone, it allows the leader to play games. The first few cars can watch the leader for their cue when to go but the field can't.
  38. dpkimmel2001

    dpkimmel2001 Team Owner

    Non-issue meets early week not much to talk about time period.

    #muchadoaboutnothing #notanissueanyotherweek #todaysflavorofthemonth #funtoreadthough
  39. kyle18fan

    kyle18fan Proud member of Rowdy Nation Contributor

    Maybe Blaney was playing the game and won
    Ilovedthe90s likes this.
  40. Charlie Spencer

    Charlie Spencer Short tracks and road courses rule.

    Oh, definitely, but it's still the rule. It's part of the driver's job to obey it, and part of NASCAR's job to enforce it until they decide to change it.
    Turtle84 likes this.

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