Team Exxxtreme is back (supposedly)

LewTheShoe said:
I am astonished at the widespread disdain and hatred on this forum for Rob Kauffman, for the RTA, and frankly for the team owners generally. Without the team owners investing their time, effort, and money, there is no weekly show. The team owners face an industry business model that saddles the owners with the most risk and the narrowest profit margins of any sector of the industry. Their business economics are borderline viable in the best of times. And in case you haven't heard, these are NOT the best of times. I am thankful that there are owners with enough passion for racing to carry on.

When the leading team owners decided to form an industry association to address their common problems, they tasked Rob Kauffman with heading up the effort. Why should we, fans of the sport, hate him for stepping up? For decades, team owners have searched for a way to convert their monies poured into the sport into some form of equity. Kauffman spearheaded the charter system as a first modest step toward achieving that goal. Why is that a crime against us? And WTF is a "check writer" anyway?
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Co-sign:cheers:

Formerjackman said:
As far as I'm concerned, he's just a Johnny-come-lately who has yet to do anything on his own and has done little but spread some money around. (That's what a check writer is), and I find his comments often short sighted and unprofessional. If he has a problem with a team entering a race, Twitter is NOT the place to discuss it. When I look for the proper way to handle sensitive issues in racing, I look to Roger Penske or Rick Hendrick. I have NO IDEA why the other owners chose RK to head up the RTA, but in my opinion, they made a poor choice. I can think of several choices that would have given it more credibility, but they are all busy actually RUNNING race teams.
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lol. You dont know what he does or doesnt do. "Spread money around" ? You say that like its a bad thing. Its called Employment.
 
Spotter22 said:
FRM and CGR are not 2nd tier no matter how many times you say it. You keep calling Kaufman an idiot but have yet to tell me why?
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Not EVERYBODY who has ever won a race can be a tier one, or the term doesn't mean much. if you cannot see the distinction between HMS, JGR, Penske, SH, and those two, I can't help you. I think my post above explains precisely why I don't care for Kauffman.
Spotter22 said:
I doubt Kaufman has made back the money he lost at MWR and trust me, he loves racing.
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Sounds like Felix Sabates, somebody else that I wouldn't want making official policy for racing.
 
LewTheShoe said:
I am astonished at the widespread disdain and hatred on this forum for Rob Kauffman, for the RTA, and frankly for the team owners generally. Without the team owners investing their time, effort, and money, there is no weekly show. The team owners face an industry business model that saddles the owners with the most risk and the narrowest profit margins of any sector of the industry. Their business economics are borderline viable in the best of times. And in case you haven't heard, these are NOT the best of times. I am thankful that there are owners with enough passion for racing to carry on.

When the leading team owners decided to form an industry association to address their common problems, they tasked Rob Kauffman with heading up the effort. Why should we, fans of the sport, hate him for stepping up? For decades, team owners have searched for a way to convert their monies poured into the sport into some form of equity. Kauffman spearheaded the charter system as a first modest step toward achieving that goal. Why is that a crime against us? And WTF is a "check writer" anyway?
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It's possible for Kauffman to be an effective businessman, a leader on the ownership side, a true lover of racing, and still be an ass (or at least come across as one).
 
Formerjackman said:
Not EVERYBODY who has ever won a race can be a tier one, or the term doesn't mean much. if you cannot see the distinction between HMS, JGR, Penske, SH, and those two, I can't help you. I think my post above explains precisely why I don't care for Kauffman.

Sounds like Felix Sabates, somebody else that I wouldn't want making official policy for racing.
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Running upfront consistently and winning races and Championships is not Tier 2 no matter who you are aligned with. If you cant grasp that I cant help you. Your disdain for Kaufman is misguided.
 
2 Sweet said:
Kauffman strikes me as the type who cares only about his personal financial gain, and nothing else. I don't think he cares about racing at all, just about how many dollars he can squeeze out of it.
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A smart business person who cares mainly about personal financial gain becomes a Nascar team owner? Not once, but twice? Ridiculous.
 
Spotter22 said:
Running upfront consistently and winning races and Championships is not Tier 2 no matter who you are aligned with.
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Where does Ganassi as a NASCAR team fit into that description? You make tier two sound like it is a BAD thing. I just use it as an expression of where teams are at a current point in time. It's not a permanent designation. As I stated, at one time RCR and Roush were THE tier one teams. Pretty much EVERYBODY started out as a tier two or lower, except maybe Penske, and it took him three years to be a consistent winner when he came back to NASCAR in 1991. If either FR or Ganassi start putting two drivers in the top ten of races and points on a consistent basis, I would revise them upward.
 
LewTheShoe said:
A smart business person who cares mainly about personal financial gain becomes a Nascar team owner? Not once, but twice? Ridiculous.
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They say that the best way to make a small fortune in racing is to start with a big one. Being a team owner can pay big but you have to wade through some lean years to get there.
 
Formerjackman said:
Where does Ganassi as a NASCAR team fit into that description? You make tier two sound like it is a BAD thing. I just use it as an expression of where teams are at a current point in time. It's not a permanent designation. As I stated, at one time RCR and Roush were THE tier one teams. Pretty much EVERYBODY started out as a tier two or lower, except maybe Penske, and it took him three years to be a consistent winner when he came back to NASCAR in 1991. If either FR or Ganassi start putting two drivers in the top ten of races and points on a consistent basis, I would revise them upward.
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:windows:
 
Formerjackman said:
As far as I'm concerned, he's just a Johnny-come-lately who has yet to do anything on his own and has done little but spread some money around. (That's what a check writer is)... I have NO IDEA why the other owners chose RK to head up the RTA, but in my opinion, they made a poor choice. I can think of several choices that would have given it more credibility, but they are all busy actually RUNNING race teams.
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K-A-U-F-F-M-A-N. Ya can tell right there, he ain't from around here and he ain't "one of us."

LMAO.
 
I find it odd that he had any business saying what he said in the first place. It has always been if a team can pay the fees, qualify, they can race. I wouldn't think he is speaking for all of the people who are paying his salary.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
It's possible for Kauffman to be an effective businessman, a leader on the ownership side, a true lover of racing, and still be an ass (or at least come across as one).
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Sure it is, but that doesn't give license to charge him with all those other "crimes against the sport" that people are posting.

Also, what exactly has Kauffman done to be an ass? People should be able to be specific and provide links. For example, above in this thread he is vilified for comments made when he shuttered MWR. All I recall is, he said (a) it was a top-10 budget but was not getting top-10 results; (b) financial losses were mounting with no signs of turnaround; and (c) he never wanted to be an active day-to-day team manager but was not able to go on as a silent partner. Specifically, what did he say or do that was out of line?
 
LewTheShoe said:
I am astonished at the widespread disdain and hatred on this forum for Rob Kauffman, for the RTA, and frankly for the team owners generally. Without the team owners investing their time, effort, and money, there is no weekly show. The team owners face an industry business model that saddles the owners with the most risk and the narrowest profit margins of any sector of the industry. Their business economics are borderline viable in the best of times. And in case you haven't heard, these are NOT the best of times. I am thankful that there are owners with enough passion for racing to carry on.

When the leading team owners decided to form an industry association to address their common problems, they tasked Rob Kauffman with heading up the effort. Why should we, fans of the sport, hate him for stepping up? For decades, team owners have searched for a way to convert their monies poured into the sport into some form of equity. Kauffman spearheaded the charter system as a first modest step toward achieving that goal. Why is that a crime against us? And WTF is a "check writer" anyway?
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I thoroughly respect what Kauffman has done.

Just it annoys me with ridiculous statements. As previously quoted, as much as I disliked BK Racing and Ron Devine. Hell, as shoddy of a business man he was, I think he did the best, he could be cause he was paying out of his own pocket for the longest. I respect him what he did or at least attempted to so. Bob Jenkins has turned Front Row into strong mid-field running team, Mike Smith (RIP) brought Tri-Star to Cup before his unfortunate death, Barney Visser... I mean FRR was a rear gunning team, but with time he turned his team into a championship winning team with the right help.

Jay Robinson, Derrike Cope and StarCom investors, Bob Germain, and all the mainstake owners are all heavily respected for what they have done. Its ludicrous statements as such for the former Team Xxtreme owner to come back into the NASCAR fold after having his equipment taken from him. Its quite the expensive and valiant effort that makes NASCAR what it is. They are all there for a reason no matter how shirty they run, I could only imagine what guys with not as much of a budget, but to just have the passion to do what they love. It deserves to be respected.

That's what I dislike Kaufmann, not because of his accomplishments and helping NASCAR. He's started from the bottom before, it just seems like he's forgotten what its meant to be humble and be at that point.
 
LewTheShoe said:
K-A-U-F-F-M-A-N. Ya can tell right there, he ain't from around here and he ain't "one of us."

LMAO.
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I hope you are not implying what it SOUNDS like you are implying. If you are, you are barking up the wrong tree.
 
The more he talks the dumber it gets. See Nascar history. Teams have been showing up for specific races since Nascar was founded.

 
FLRacingFan said:
Mr. Kauffman has little to worry about this weekend.

The chances of this car taking the green on Sunday are about as good as those of me getting with Kate Upton.
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That's his point though. It's a waste of money for someone to support a team that has a very low chance of even making the race.
 
Simple Fan said:
That's his point though. It's a waste of money for someone to support a team that has a very low chance of even making the race.
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Let's be perfectly honest. It's a waste of money to for almost ANYONE to invest money in a racing team. Your chances of making a decent rate of return is worse than playing penny stocks, and for most, if they actually DO make $1.00, they'll just invest $1.25 trying to make their car go faster. Making money is NOT why you get into this sport. The best most can reasonably hope for is just not to lose their ass in it. Ask Ron Devine.
 
Makes ya wonder what Visser thinks about Kauffman's remarks. I guess he thinks everybody started out with 4 cars and over 300 employees.
 
FLRacingFan said:
No money is being redirected from chartered entrants to NY Racing or whatever they are this time around.
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I didn't say it was but his point is that sponsoring that car is a waste of money. He'd rather they work with a charter team instead.

AndyMarquisLive said:
Once upon a time, Furniture Row was showing up to the track with a low chance of even making the race.
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They did but that's before the charter system was established and fields were larger. Different times, I'm all for 36 chartered car fields.

Formerjackman said:
Let's be perfectly honest. It's a waste of money to for almost ANYONE to invest money in a racing team. Your chances of making a decent rate of return is worse than playing penny stocks, and for most, if they actually DO make $1.00, they'll just invest $1.25 trying to make their car go faster. Making money is NOT why you get into this sport. The best most can reasonably hope for is just not to lose their ass in it. Ask Ron Devine.
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Yeah wasn't talking about making money, he's talking about wasting money on a team that possibly wont race at all.
 
Kauffman is ranked right above Teresa Earnhardt, and Brian France. Keep after it, you can make it to #1
 
Simple Fan said:
They did but that's before the charter system was established and fields were larger. Different times, I'm all for 36 chartered car fields.
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I'm not, at all. NASCAR has always been an open sport. Closing it to chartered teams makes it exclusive, and that's bad for the sport.
 
StandOnIt said:



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I agree with MAYBE 50% of what Brad says on most days, but I agree 100% on this one. AND he also brings up the point that whether you agree with Kauffman or not, it just sends the wrong message to the average race fan. If the RTA is trying to get the support of the fans, they have NO IDEA how to go about it. I also agree that if you want to keep the non-chartered teams out of Cup, then let's keep all of the chartered teams AND their allied teams (KBM, JRM etc) AND their drivers OUT of the lower series. It's guys like Kauffman that make me think long and hard about finding something else to do with my Sunday afternoons.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
I'm not, at all. NASCAR has always been an open sport. Closing it to chartered teams makes it exclusive, and that's bad for the sport.
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Making it exclusive is a good thing in my opinion. Would give more money to the charter teams and every car would be full time. Would also force small teams like this to try the Xfinity, ARCA, Trucks, or K&N instead of diving head first in to Cup, therefore helping those series.
 
Formerjackman said:
I agree with MAYBE 50% of what Brad says on most days, but I agree 100% on this one. AND he also brings up the point that whether you agree with Kauffman or not, it just sends the wrong message to the average race fan. If the RTA is trying to get the support of the fans, they have NO IDEA how to go about it. I also agree that if you want to keep the non-chartered teams out of Cup, then let's keep all of the chartered teams AND their allied teams (KBM, JRM etc) AND their drivers OUT of the lower series. It's guys like Kauffman that make me think long and hard about finding something else to do with my Sunday afternoons.
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Thats not Brad, that's Brian Kes;)
 
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