The future of JGR

Hawaii808

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While still a powerhouse team and TDR's leader of the pack, you can't help but see the decline beginning. First the loss of (heir apparent?) JD Gibbs. Then the failure to retain KFB and sponsorship for the #18. Then the sudden passing of Coy Gibbs (was he the future of JGR leadership?). And now word that Denny and FedEx are in the last year of their contracts.

It's early, but a LOT can go wrong in the next 12-18 months.

I can't help but wonder if things worked out with KFB, and with the passing of Coy...that the Coach might have considered offering an equity position to KFB with the idea he would take charge when needed.

Just some wild ass speculation during the off season.
 

wi_racefan

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Just pure speculation but I've already said I wouldn't shocked to see the move of 23XI become the flagship TRD team in the next couple years. With Joe at 81 and losing both his sons I wouldn't blame him one bit for hanging it up
 

MRM

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I brought this up several years ago. Most of the owners of the major teams were in their 70's at the time. I wondered then where the ownerships would come from. Since then, we've seen Brad K become a part owner, Jimmie Johnson become a part owner, Denny Hamlin become a co-owner, and Chip Gannasi selling out to Justin Marks. I suspect Gibbs will eventually sell out to someone looking to get in at a high level.
 

wi_racefan

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I brought this up several years ago. Most of the owners of the major teams were in their 70's at the time. I wondered then where the ownerships would come from. Since then, we've seen Brad K become a part owner, Jimmie Johnson become a part owner, Denny Hamlin become a co-owner, and Chip Gannasi selling out to Justin Marks. I suspect Gibbs will eventually sell out to someone looking to get in at a high level.
I think IF Joe ever sells it will definitely be different than any other one since charters have been in place. Some people refuse to admit it but JGR is pretty much the TRD factory team. My guess is that TRD has a lot of things tied up in contracts that wouldn't allow Joe to just sell everything on a whim
 

Revman

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A topic that I have been thinking about since Coy passed. I think the organization is definitely in crisis, and I honestly don't know the direction it will go. @wi_racefan you have a great point, and it's certainly possible about 23XI. JD was supposed to be the guy. Coy became the guy. Coach cannot do this much longer--and I am sure that he is not full time right now. Jimmy Maker has retired. None of this has gone to plan. The question becomes....Can Dave Alpern become the guy? See Kyle Busch mess. Coach has kept his circle tight, and put family first in business. He is loyal to his longtime friends. His children have passed, and his longtime friends have aged, and he needs to make decisions soon while grieving the devastation to his family. These are difficult times in the boardroom at JGR for sure.
 

Revman

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I brought this up several years ago. Most of the owners of the major teams were in their 70's at the time. I wondered then where the ownerships would come from. Since then, we've seen Brad K become a part owner, Jimmie Johnson become a part owner, Denny Hamlin become a co-owner, and Chip Gannasi selling out to Justin Marks. I suspect Gibbs will eventually sell out to someone looking to get in at a high level.
I do think this is possible. I really do....and I don't think that it will be too far off into the future.
 

Revman

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I was thinking about this....JGR is obviously getting younger, and more changes are on the horizon. Bell, Gibbs.....Truex will be gone after next year, and Denny's contract is up after next season as well. I don't think that the comparison to post-Jimmy Hendrick are completely accurate, but you may see a struggle for a couple of seasons....although Bell might have something to say about that. I am fine with that. Wins and Championships are great, but the struggle is also part of the journey. I was a Toyota fan when MY guys were struggling with making the field, and while though, it's all part of the experience.
 

Charlie Spencer

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he needs to make decisions soon
I don't think he needs to make any before the season starts. The team can probably continue on inertia through the 2023 season. But if they're going to be worth anything in 2024, competitively or financially, I think they have to start making public announcements about their direction before mid-season. Waiting longer than that will affect signing replacements for Martin and / or Denny, signing new sponsors if needed, etc.
 

wi_racefan

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I don't think he needs to make any before the season starts. The team can probably continue on inertia through the 2023 season. But if they're going to be worth anything in 2024, competitively or financially, I think they have to start making public announcements about their direction before mid-season. Waiting longer than that will affect signing replacements for Martin and / or Denny, signing new sponsors if needed, etc.
I guess I never thought about it from the sponsorship side. JGR sponsorship is typically more organization related than driver compared to most teams. As uncertain future wouldn't be a benefit
 

Charlie Spencer

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I guess I never thought about it from the sponsorship side. JGR sponsorship is typically more organization related than driver compared to most teams. As uncertain future wouldn't be a benefit
I'd bet FedEx's contract specifies Denny as the driver. If he leaves, I don't know if FedEx will stick around. If he goes to 23XI, they'll go with him.

Like you said, what they do with the charters could be different from what we've seen with the lower tier teams or even Ganassi.
 

StandOnIt

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I'd bet FedEx's contract specifies Denny as the driver. If he leaves, I don't know if FedEx will stick around. If he goes to 23XI, they'll go with him.

Like you said, what they do with the charters could be different from what we've seen with the lower tier teams or even Ganassi.
I think it is the other way around. If FedEx leaves, Hamlin's future with JGR is in jeopardy. Things don't look good for them renewing IMO. A team that is in decline has problems keeping personnel, and sponsors(partners). If that is so, I think we will see people jumping ship from JGR to greener pastures from now on.
 

Hawaii808

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JGR will not be sold. They have contingency plans in place, they dont just fly by the seat of their pants.
As one would think, but recent events have got to have Coach and the JGR leadership back at the table rethinking things.
 

Formerjackman

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I don't see management as an issue, they can attract and hire good managers, but long term who OWNS the team? If something happens to Joe, who is the owner going forward? The senior citizen widow, The two widowed daughter-in laws, some twenty-something grand kids, who seem like a LONG way from assuming any kind of senior position in the company, or some combination of them? If something happens to Joe, would Pat, Melissa or Heather even WANT to continue on? The cash from selling four charters among other assets would be a tempting carrot dangling out there. On the surface, the long term future of JGR seems less promising than the Teresa Earnhardt ownership experiment. Working for a family owned business, ownership succession among family members is something that has always held special interest to me. Ask Tony George what happens when you get outnumbered by family members more interested in cash in the bank than physical assets.
 

wi_racefan

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Who would hire them?
My guess is TRD would be involved heavily with that. I may be completely wrong but for that organization it seems very blurry who actually is pulling the strings. Gibbs or TRD

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aunty dive

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That should be interesting. Joe Gibbs isn't any Roger Penske. Penske has plans in place when he is gone.
I commented on their ages, not their respective race team management successes.

The succession plan that was in place sadly died along with Gibbs’ second son. Coming up with another one isn’t going to happen 2 weeks later.
 

StandOnIt

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My guess is TRD would be involved heavily with that. I may be completely wrong but for that organization it seems very blurry who actually is pulling the strings. Gibbs or TRD

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My thoughts exactly. It could get messy if the survivors do what survivors usually do and then you also have TRD to deal with.
 

cheesepuffs

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The succession plan that was in place sadly died along with Gibbs’ second son. Coming up with another one isn’t going to happen 2 weeks later.
How do YOU know what they have or don't have for succession plans? They could very well, and likely DO, have a plan B and C.
 

aunty dive

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Your disdain is evident tonight, Mr. CAPITAL letters.

I hope they do have a plan B ... they need one now.
 

wi_racefan

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My thoughts exactly. It could get messy if the survivors do what survivors usually do and then you also have TRD to deal with.
Honestly I could also see TRD just taking over/buying JGR. With the new car and single source parts I don't think it would be a very big leap from their current involvement

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Formerjackman

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Honestly I could also see TRD just taking over/buying JGR. With the new car and single source parts I don't think it would be a very big leap from their current involvement

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I don't think that's a place NASCAR really wants to go, even if the lines between who is really calling the shots seems blurred at times. I'm not quite sure what the RTA would have to say about it either.
 

StandOnIt

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Honestly I could also see TRD just taking over/buying JGR. With the new car and single source parts I don't think it would be a very big leap from their current involvement

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TRD already builds all of their engines for the six teams, brings a motor home full of engineers to the race track. They are the shot callers.
 

wi_racefan

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I don't think that's a place NASCAR really wants to go, even if the lines between who is really calling the shots seems blurred at times. I'm not quite sure what the RTA would have to say about it either.
Nascar may have a voice in it, but I doubt they would do anything about it when push comes to shove. Threatening to leave the sport will get them whatever they want. Nascar is desperate to attract new manufacturers the last thing they'd want is to lose a current one.

As far as the RTA I'm not sure they would even have power to do anything about it if they wanted. Actually I'm trying to figure out what power they even actually have. They can make all the threats and demands they want but at the end of the day there's a list of people wanting charters that would gladly take them if they decided to stop showing up.

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aunty dive

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TRD already builds all of their engines for the six teams, brings a motor home full of engineers to the race track. They are the shot callers.



Yates is the exclusive Ford engine supplier and it appears Ford itself is heavily involved in the engineer aspects of NASCAR racing.

Rushbrook, Global Director of Ford Performance Motorsports, was also available to give insight this week.

“I don’t know that we’re comfortable with it yet," he admitted. "It’s an all-new car and the teams, with our support, have been racing the Gen 6 cars for so long and knew them pretty well. Even when there changes made from year to year in the rules a lot of the same principles applied in terms of what to do or where to optimize, but now everything is new and similar to what Doug (Yates) just went through, it’s optimizing all of those different variables.

"There are still a lot of knobs to turn on these vehicles in all part of it, whether it’s engine, aero or chassis, and it’s getting comfortable with turning those knobs and making sure we’ve truly optimized it. It’s really testing our people to think differently than they have in the past, not just rely on the same principles and also want our tools – to be able to use them for that optimization, especially with our simulator. It’s getting a lot of use right now.”

Beyond all this, why is factory involvement a bad thing? The racing benefits from their human and other resource investments. All just my opinion, of course.
 

aunty dive

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As far as the RTA I'm not sure they would even have power to do anything about it if they wanted. Actually I'm trying to figure out what power they even actually have. They can make all the threats and demands they want but at the end of the day there's a list of people wanting charters that would gladly take them if they decided to stop showing up.
The RTA speaks for the circus performers. All of them.

Nobody will be “taking” assets that belong to someone else.
 

StandOnIt

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Nascar may have a voice in it, but I doubt they would do anything about it when push comes to shove. Threatening to leave the sport will get them whatever they want. Nascar is desperate to attract new manufacturers the last thing they'd want is to lose a current one.

As far as the RTA I'm not sure they would even have power to do anything about it if they wanted. Actually I'm trying to figure out what power they even actually have. They can make all the threats and demands they want but at the end of the day there's a list of people wanting charters that would gladly take them if they decided to stop showing up.

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Without seeing the contract for the charters who knows if they wrote in a factory exclusion to prohibit the ability for a factory to directly buy charters. If I had to guess I would say they don't have one. About all the RTA has done is set up the charter system to assure they get a buck for their investments if they decide to sell and it has just about excluded anybody else from competing unless they have tons of money.
 

aunty dive

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About all the RTA has done is set up the charter system to assure they get a buck for their investments if they decide to sell and it has just about excluded anybody else from competing unless they have tons of money.
Rather like every other professional sport on the planet.
 

Formerjackman

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Yates is the exclusive Ford engine supplier and it appears Ford itself is heavily involved in the engineer aspects of NASCAR racing.

Rushbrook, Global Director of Ford Performance Motorsports, was also available to give insight this week.

“I don’t know that we’re comfortable with it yet," he admitted. "It’s an all-new car and the teams, with our support, have been racing the Gen 6 cars for so long and knew them pretty well. Even when there changes made from year to year in the rules a lot of the same principles applied in terms of what to do or where to optimize, but now everything is new and similar to what Doug (Yates) just went through, it’s optimizing all of those different variables.

"There are still a lot of knobs to turn on these vehicles in all part of it, whether it’s engine, aero or chassis, and it’s getting comfortable with turning those knobs and making sure we’ve truly optimized it. It’s really testing our people to think differently than they have in the past, not just rely on the same principles and also want our tools – to be able to use them for that optimization, especially with our simulator. It’s getting a lot of use right now.”

Beyond all this, why is factory involvement a bad thing? The racing benefits from their human and other resource investments. All just my opinion, of course.

I don't think factory INVOLVEMENT is necessarily a bad thing, but I think factory TEAMS are terrible for racing. My philosophy has ALWAYS been to provide the tools and then get the hell out of the way and let the teams fight it out. The problem with the factory is that eventually they all leave or reduce their involvement, leaving series swinging in the breeze. It's nearly killed sportscar racing more than once, and if RJ Reynolds hadn't come along, the pullout of the factories might have killed NASCAR.
 

Dr_B_UNC

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A topic that I have been thinking about since Coy passed. I think the organization is definitely in crisis, and I honestly don't know the direction it will go. @wi_racefan you have a great point, and it's certainly possible about 23XI. JD was supposed to be the guy. Coy became the guy. Coach cannot do this much longer--and I am sure that he is not full time right now. Jimmy Maker has retired. None of this has gone to plan. The question becomes....Can Dave Alpern become the guy? See Kyle Busch mess. Coach has kept his circle tight, and put family first in business. He is loyal to his longtime friends. His children have passed, and his longtime friends have aged, and he needs to make decisions soon while grieving the devastation to his family. These are difficult times in the boardroom at JGR for sure.
Through such devastating heartbreak, I honestly can't see how Coach could have his heart in it as in years past. I expect major upheaval. I 100% see 23XI going to four cars and taking over as TRD works team.
 

Formerjackman

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One solution could be that Joe takes a partner. It's working for other teams
If Joe is concerned about the long term viability of the team for his grandchildren, that would likely make the most sense. Then at some point in the future, Joe's stake could be passed on to the family while someone else does much of the heavy lifting.
 
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