The future of JGR

I don't think Toyota would have any interest in purchasing JGR. That creates so much complexity for them. Right now, if they decided to pull out of NASCAR, they would have to handle their Costa Mesa engine shop and sell their simulator, but if you take over JGR and decide to leave then it's so much more of a situation.

What would be the point of all that overhead for them? They can throw their engineering support at any Toyota team without needing to take on a whole new company.
 
StandOnIt said:
Without seeing the contract for the charters who knows if they wrote in a factory exclusion to prohibit the ability for a factory to directly buy charters. If I had to guess I would say they don't have one. About all the RTA has done is set up the charter system to assure they get a buck for their investments if they decide to sell and it has just about excluded anybody else from competing unless they have tons of money.
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IMO charters have probably slowed the growth of the cup series. With the new car and single source parts its more feasible for a startup team, but given that they have to purchase a charter it's keeping a lot of people out. JR has said this much himself. All charters are is a bunch of rich people that figured out how to make more money.

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wi_racefan said:
IMO charters have probably slowed the growth of the cup series. With the new car and single source parts its more feasible for a startup team, but given that they have to purchase a charter it's keeping a lot of people out. JR has said this much himself. All charters are is a bunch of rich people that figured out how to make more money.

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I just want JRM in Cup.

Heck, Junior and Kelly should buy JGR...
 
cheesepuffs said:
I just want JRM in Cup.

Heck, Junior and Kelly should buy JGR...
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Junior in a Toyota

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wi_racefan said:
IMO charters have probably slowed the growth of the cup series. With the new car and single source parts its more feasible for a startup team, but given that they have to purchase a charter it's keeping a lot of people out. JR has said this much himself. All charters are is a bunch of rich people that figured out how to make more money.
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Why should NASCAR Cup racing be different than every other top level professional sport?
 
Why would they buy a bunch pf Toyota race cars and a shop etc, when they have their own shop building racecars? The new car is simpler to build than an Xfinity car. What they are choking on are the multi million dollar price of charters
 
cheesepuffs said:
When did I state or imply that they would remain with Toyota in this hypothetical situation?
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Why would they buy a bunch of Toyota race cars and a shop, personnel etc, (that comes with buying JGR BTW) when they have their own shop building racecars? The new car is simpler to build than an Xfinity car. What they are choking on are the multi million dollar price of charters
 
aunty dive said:
Why should NASCAR Cup racing be different than every other top level professional sport?
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Because it's completely different than every other top level sport. You do realize with minimal talent anyone can literally buy their way to the top series and compete for years? What other sport can you do that?

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StandOnIt said:
Why would they buy a bunch of Toyota race cars and a shop, personnel etc, (that comes with buying JGR BTW) when they have their own shop building racecars? The new car is simpler to build than an Xfinity car. What they are choking on are the multi million dollar price of charters
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They aren't "Toyota" race cars, my goodness. It's a bunch of generic chassis. TRD takes their engines back that Gibbs is leasing from them, Junior leases Chevy engines for the cars from Hendrick, the bodies get replaced on a constant basis anyway so that doesn't matter, and JRM gets a bigger shop, four Cup charters, and a pool of additional engineering talent and pit crews to keep if he so chooses.
 
cheesepuffs said:
They aren't "Toyota" race cars, my goodness. It's a bunch of generic chassis. TRD takes their engines back that Gibbs is leasing from them, Junior leases Chevy engines for the cars from Hendrick, the bodies get replaced on a constant basis anyway so that doesn't matter, and JRM gets a bigger shop, four Cup charters, and a pool of additional engineering talent and pit crews to keep if he so chooses.
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Probably would be better to by the charters. That is what they are looking for
 
wi_racefan said:
Because it's completely different than every other top level sport. You do realize with minimal talent anyone can literally buy their way to the top series and compete for years? What other sport can you do that?
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You can do that in any sport in which you can afford the franchise fee.

This is not complicated.
 
wi_racefan said:
Because it's completely different than every other top level sport. You do realize with minimal talent anyone can literally buy their way to the top series and compete for years? What other sport can you do that?

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See Jordon and Pitbull. One of the problems is that a person can have the money but not any charters are available to buy. The other is hindering the growth of the series even when the multi million dollar charters are available.
 
aunty dive said:
You can do that in any sport in which you can afford the franchise fee.

This is not complicated.
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Im talking as a competitor not an owner. The competitors are completely different than any other sport, yet they continue to try to make the sport like every other purely talent based sport

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20 years from now, a $25 Million
wi_racefan said:
Im talking as a competitor not an owner. The competitors are completely different than any other sport, yet they continue to try to make the sport like every other purely talent based sport
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How are they “completely different”? Owners compete with other owners in every sport.

20 years from now, paying $25 Million for a NASCAR Cup charter in 2022 will be recognized as a genius business decision.
 
wi_racefan said:
You do realize with minimal talent anyone can literally buy their way to the top series and compete for years?
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wi_racefan said:
Im talking as a competitor not an owner.
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A competitor with minimal talent isn't going to be competitive, just making laps and giving the others someone to pass.
 
Dr_B_UNC said:
Through such devastating heartbreak, I honestly can't see how Coach could have his heart in it as in years past. I expect major upheaval. I 100% see 23XI going to four cars and taking over as TRD works team.
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Honestly, I don't know how much his heart has been in it. He is visible, but how much is he doing day to day? I think that when JD passed, it was devastating in terms of the company's direction. My God, JD was responsible for going TRD engines, and shutting down the in house engine program. Coy's passing transcends devastation, and inches toward debilitation. You have Denny/FedEx contracts ending next year and Truex Jr. retiring. How much of this **** is Coach willing to navigate? I agree with you on 23XI.
 
cheesepuffs said:
I don't think Toyota would have any interest in purchasing JGR. That creates so much complexity for them. Right now, if they decided to pull out of NASCAR, they would have to handle their Costa Mesa engine shop and sell their simulator, but if you take over JGR and decide to leave then it's so much more of a situation.

What would be the point of all that overhead for them? They can throw their engineering support at any Toyota team without needing to take on a whole new company.
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Toyota will never own a team. Period. Done. Thank you and good night.
 
StandOnIt said:
Pales in comparison
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I don't know how devoted Kelley is to Chevy. I think if Toyota came around with a couple of charters in hand, we'd see another 'Tony to Ford' moment.

But I doubt Toyota will do that. I think JGR sells anything, it may be one charter in '24, and that won't be to Toyota.
 
Regardless of my on the track favorites I wish JGR sucess. I don't think it will happen but any future team reductions or downgrades would be a terrible thing. Careers and dreams are at stake including how any of negative fallout would effect the dependents or children.

I do believe that Toyota or TRD would be better served with JGR remaining as the flagship, and the expanding 23XI to three or four cars, but that they should also add another satellite team.

Personally I dont like the big superteams dominance of the have nots. I wish we had 36 or 40 uniquely different teams that only entered one car per race to limit any coperate capabilities of degrading competition in the most absolute sense.
But as for Toyota, Chevrolet and Ford they have to love the synergy and stream lining capabilities.
It also has to be easier for Nascar to manage with limiting the number of loose cannons.

Even so I think Toyota still should be putting more cars on the track to avoid things like the current concerns. I think Ford made a mistake as the 90s progressed by putting most of their eggs into Jack Roush racing. They would have been better off with Yates racing remaining strong and a force that Roush racing would always have to be concerned about. I think they learned from that and finally corrected the problem by adding on Penske and HSR to the stable.
I also think Chevrolet has benefitted by having RCR and satellite teams to counter them in spite of HMS being much the much stronger team.

It doesn't just develop more talent on the track but it also serves with indirectly with providing more CEO types to move around in house when needed.

The family model is easier to love, I grew up admiring Petty Enterprises for being a do it all yourself contained force, but it doesnt stand the test of generations or time as well.
 
Greg said:
Regardless of my on the track favorites I wish JGR sucess. I don't think it will happen but any future team reductions or downgrades would be a terrible thing. Careers and dreams are at stake including how any of negative fallout would effect the dependents or children.

I do believe that Toyota or TRD would be better served with JGR remaining as the flagship, and the expanding 23XI to three or four cars, but that they should also add another satellite team.

Personally I dont like the big superteams dominance of the have nots. I wish we had 36 or 40 uniquely different teams that only entered one car per race to limit any coperate capabilities of degrading competition in the most absolute sense.
But as for Toyota, Chevrolet and Ford they have to love the synergy and stream lining capabilities.
It also has to be easier for Nascar to manage with limiting the number of loose cannons.

Even so I think Toyota still should be putting more cars on the track to avoid things like the current concerns. I think Ford made a mistake as the 90s progressed by putting most of their eggs into Jack Roush racing. They would have been better off with Yates racing remaining strong and a force that Roush racing would always have to be concerned about. I think they learned from that and finally corrected the problem by adding on Penske and HSR to the stable.
I also think Chevrolet has benefitted by having RCR and satellite teams to counter them in spite of HMS being much the much stronger team.

It doesn't just develop more talent on the track but it also serves with indirectly with providing more CEO types to move around in house when needed.

The family model is easier to love, I grew up admiring Petty Enterprises for being a do it all yourself contained force, but it doesnt stand the test of generations or time as well.
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I think that TRD's philosophy of working with a smaller number of teams hurt last year with the Next Gen. Fewer data points meant slower development when everybody has the same stuff. TRD has capacity for eight teams. The other piece--which may be rethought I would think--is the type of involvement TRD deploys. Again, I think Next Gen changes that. Everybody is learning with the new car, and as such, things will change.

As for the original topic....JD was groomed for taking the team....and then Coy. How many hits can a family take before this is no longer a family team. At that point, just what is the point? Maybe selling, and getting out--or at least merging with somebody is the right direction? Another piece of all of this is that Jimmy Makar retired this year too. That is two hugely significant leaders who are gone this year.
 
Happy Birthday to Coach.

His 82nd birthday today, I just continue to wish nothing but the best to him and the family. All dislike from members aside, he's been a staple in the garage for years. Hopefully the team find the pieces to keep going.
 
StandOnIt said:
For sure. Dodging back markers is a part of racing. I will never understand fans losing their minds about back markers every time they see one. Go yell at a cloud.
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There's plenty of that going on around here already

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Kiante said:
Happy Birthday to Coach.

His 82nd birthday today, I just continue to wish nothing but the best to him and the family. All dislike from members aside, he's been a staple in the garage for years. Hopefully the team find the pieces to keep going.
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He is an amazing man. If his business acumen doesn't appeal to some, at least his strength in unthinkable loss should. I am proud of the fact that hours before he lost his son, I said, "May God bless you Coach," and he replied, "You too." I feel deeply for him. I think that he is a good person, and certainly a man of faith. I believe that Ty will serve as a picture of that strength moving forward. Stay tuned.
 
StandOnIt said:
For sure. Dodging back markers is a part of racing. I will never understand fans losing their minds about back markers every time they see one. Go yell at a cloud.
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I don’t think some of us are losing our minds over them. In fact, we wouldn’t mind seeing a few extra if it means another caution or 2 so be it. Tommy Baldwin & a couple other owners weren’t a problem.
 
StandOnIt said:
For sure. Dodging back markers is a part of racing. I will never understand fans losing their minds about back markers every time they see one. Go yell at a cloud.
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There are backmarkers, then there are people out there just mucking up the show. I think backmarkers are like referees. If you notice them, they are doing a bad job.
 
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