The New and Improved Allmendinger Thread

SST55 said:
1-3-5 years from now we read that Aegis has lost it's accreditation due to a technicians mishandling of a number of samples. Now where do those who were suspended go to get their reputaions and jobs back? Don't say that will never happen, no test is 100% accurate 100% of the time especially when there's human hands involved.
The A sample should be split and tested at two seperate labs. Same as the B sample. I mentioned testing of the B should be done at two seperate labs in the old thread.
This is like the death penalty, theres no 'my bad do overs'.
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Well said. Letting someone found to use drugs back into motorsports is entirely different than stick and ball sports, but the same system is A-OK with the experts. Amazing.
 
FenderBumper said:
Neither am I, but you kept coming up with the false impression that I thought their may be something sinister going on in the system. Other sports are totally different. A race car driver who is found to have mind altering drugs in his system on race weekend is a person who is endangering lives. How does that apply to an NFL, MLB or whatever other sport you can name? Those players regularly come back from positive results, but Randy Lajoie is still on the outs 2 years after smoking a joint. It's an entirely different standard in motorsports, so the stick and ball analogy doesn't apply at all. What's 'good enough' for them just doesn't cut it when lives are at stake, because the career reprocussions for a false positive are so much greater.
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I guess when I hear/read that you or anyone else is questioning the validity of the results that seems to me to indicate to you don't think that they are reliable. I don't see any reason to doubt them but others do. That's OK. That keeps us debating. I'm not changing my mind and you aren't changing yours. It's OK, really.

You totally misread or misunderstood my comparison between other sports and NASCAR. I was talking only about how the collection and testing is done. Nothing more. No two different labs and the like. It seems to be managed consistently across the sports spectrum when it comes to collection/testing/A samples/B samples/same lab for both/etc.....

Randy Lajoie was reinstated very soon after completion of the program. He talked extensively about it yesterday. He owned up to his mistake after Sample A was tested. They didn't even bother with the B sample at his request. He went straight into the RTR program.
 
FenderBumper said:
Well said. Letting someone found to use drugs back into motorsports is entirely different than stick and ball sports, but the same system is A-OK with the experts. Amazing.
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Again, you are going in an entirely different direction than what I was talking about.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Again, you are going in an entirely different direction than what I was talking about.
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Not really, dpk. I'm talking about the consequences from a false positive in motorsports, which are much higher than in stick and ball sports.
 
FenderBumper said:
Not really, dpk. I'm talking about the consequences from a false positive in motorsports, which are much higher than in stick and ball sports.
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OK, just so it isn't a response to my discussion with you because that remark is totally unrelated to my statement. Mine had nothing to do with the consequences between sports, only the procedures.
 
FenderBumper said:
Not really, dpk. I'm talking about the consequences from a false positive in motorsports, which are much higher than in stick and ball sports.
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I would say in stick and ball sports they are high too, when the athlete is a megga star his career is tarnished forever. Do they get more chances... yes. I think AJ should of stated what the stimulant he tested positive for was, get it out in the open. AJ, IMO is looking at at least a year out of the sport, I don't think he will ever be able to recover from that, I also think 6 months from now he will be just an after thought. We can argue the merits of the testing process to death here, but when it comes down to it, he tested positive twice and from where I see it there is no getting around that no matter how many nanograms it was. I think it is time to move on from AJ and start bickering about Nascar again, about Indy, and complaining about Danica...;):D
 
There are flaws in the system. Every effort should be made to reduce the (albeit remote) the possibility of a false positive. 2 labs, 4 collection cups is a good start when the stakes are this high.
 
It's kinda like DNA results . If I say it's 99.999 % proof positive , somebody is bound to chime in with ...THERE .001 % chance of error .
 
ted@economy said:
It's kinda like DNA results . If I say it's 99.999 % proof positive , somebody is bound to chime in with ...THERE .001 % chance of error .
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This pee test is nowhere 99.999%, but that's a good argument FOR tighter procedures.
 
FenderBumper said:
Not really, dpk. I'm talking about the consequences from a false positive in motorsports, which are much higher than in stick and ball sports.
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So since False positives happen so much (in your world) what about False negatives?
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
NOBODY
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EVER
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SAID
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EVERY
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POSITIVE
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TEST
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IS
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A
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FALSE
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POSITIVE!
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banghead.gif
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This how people feel when they try and talk to you on many, many topics. Just sayin'
 
mike honcho said:
So you want a 2nd lab to retest every sample positive or negative?????
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Why not? It's a persons livihood and career on the line. The cost of a pee test is extremely minor considering the ramifications.

I remember a defense attorny questioning a crime scene investigator/lab tech after the prosecution had gone over every miniscule detail to the ninth degree point by point. He showed a film clip disputing the testimony given and said "WHAT'S THAT MR. FUNG?" And that boys and girls is just one of the reasons OJ walked..
 
Whoever said he cant come back from this? Randy Lajoie was reinstated after 2 months, and shane hmeil was reinstated after his first failed test. Both of those guys failed on a lot worse substances.
 
SST55 said:
Why not? It's a persons livihood and career on the line. The cost of a pee test is extremely minor considering the ramifications.

I remember a defense attorny questioning a crime scene investigator/lab tech after the prosecution had gone over every miniscule detail to the ninth degree point by point. He showed a film clip disputing the testimony given and said "WHAT'S THAT MR. FUNG?" And that boys and girls is just one of the reasons OJ walked..
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Well hell might as well use three.Take the best out of three results.Just to be sure.:rolleyes:
 
Jeffrey00 said:
Whoever said he cant come back from this? Randy Lajoie was reinstated after 2 months, and shane hmeil was reinstated after his first failed test. Both of those guys failed on a lot worse substances.
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Being reinstated doesn't mean one can come back. Shane Hmiel was the exception and would probably be a multi-time Cup Series race winner if he hadn't blown his second chance and committed career suicide.

Sure, football players come back all the time but, as a rule, NFL teams and fans don't look down on substance abuse the way NASCAR does. Look at how many people in the NFL have been convicted of crimes that most of us would be sitting in a jail cell for years for. Football is a different culture, as the Joe Paterno thing taught us, nobody cares about morality over there. How many players over there have been convicted, multiple times, of DUI. Hell, they have players there convicted of killing people while driving drunk who still have careers. It's just not a fair comparison.

NASCAR teams have a higher set of morals than the entire NFL. If a NASCAR driver did half the stuff many of the NFL or NBA players did, they'd never see the inside of a minor league series racecar again -- not to mention the mainstream media would say that it's proof all NASCAR fans are drunk rednecks.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Being reinstated doesn't mean one can come back. Shane Hmiel was the exception and would probably be a multi-time Cup Series race winner if he hadn't blown his second chance and committed career suicide.

Sure, football players come back all the time but, as a rule, NFL teams and fans don't look down on substance abuse the way NASCAR does. Look at how many people in the NFL have been convicted of crimes that most of us would be sitting in a jail cell for years for. Football is a different culture, as the Joe Paterno thing taught us, nobody cares about morality over there. How many players over there have been convicted, multiple times, of DUI. Hell, they have players there convicted of killing people while driving drunk who still have careers. It's just not a fair comparison.

NASCAR teams have a higher set of morals than the entire NFL. If a NASCAR driver did half the stuff many of the NFL or NBA players did, they'd never see the inside of a minor league series racecar again -- not to mention the mainstream media would say that it's proof all NASCAR fans are drunk rednecks.
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So what you are saying is that it is a death sentence to AJ because he lacks the talent for a top tiered cup ride. Oh ok i gotcha now.......
 
Jeffrey00 said:
So what you are saying is that it is a death sentence to AJ because he lacks the talent for a top tiered cup ride. Oh ok i gotcha now.......
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Yeh it's pretty much a death sentence, what sponsor is going totouch him if and when he comes back?
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Being reinstated doesn't mean one can come back. Shane Hmiel was the exception and would probably be a multi-time Cup Series race winner if he hadn't blown his second chance and committed career suicide.

Sure, football players come back all the time but, as a rule, NFL teams and fans don't look down on substance abuse the way NASCAR does. Look at how many people in the NFL have been convicted of crimes that most of us would be sitting in a jail cell for years for. Football is a different culture, as the Joe Paterno thing taught us, nobody cares about morality over there. How many players over there have been convicted, multiple times, of DUI. Hell, they have players there convicted of killing people while driving drunk who still have careers. It's just not a fair comparison.

NASCAR teams have a higher set of morals than the entire NFL. If a NASCAR driver did half the stuff many of the NFL or NBA players did, they'd never see the inside of a minor league series racecar again -- not to mention the mainstream media would say that it's proof all NASCAR fans are drunk rednecks.
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Well then if that's true AJ should have never had the #22 ride.Seeing how he has a DUI already.
 
Apparently they let those slide because I seem to remember Mikey had one and someone else a few years ago who is no longer in CUP, left the scene of the accident too, damn can't remember his name.
 
mike honcho said:
Well then if that's true AJ should have never had the #22 ride.Seeing how he has a DUI already.
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How many drivers have been charged with vehicular manslaughter, never spent a day in jail and drive for Hendrick. Because one of the New England Patriots players has killed someone.
 
Mopardh9 said:
Apparently they let those slide because I seem to remember Mikey had one and someone else a few years ago who is no longer in CUP, left the scene of the accident too, damn can't remember his name.
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that was mikey that left the scene of the accident. i don't agree with you about aj being done in cup. he's still young and has enough talent to recover from this.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
How many drivers have been charged with vehicular manslaughter, never spent a day in jail and drive for Hendrick. Because one of the New England Patriots players has killed someone.
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??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
WTF Are you saying?Am I reading this post wrong, or maybe my simple mind can't grasp what you are saying.
Anyways, A.J. will end up on the Lawnmower racing circuit at your local county fair. Get your Sharpies ready...
 
MAGICMILER said:
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
WTF Are you saying?Am I reading this post wrong, or maybe my simple mind can't grasp what you are saying.
Anyways, A.J. will end up on the Lawnmower racing circuit at your local county fair. Get your Sharpies ready...
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Look up Donte Stallworth of the New England Patriots.
 
From what I have read he has already enrolled in the program. My question is what is the timeline for the recovery program? Will he be eligable by daytona or maybe sooner?
 
racer8 said:
From what I have read he has already enrolled in the program. My question is what is the timeline for the recovery program? Will he be eligable by daytona or maybe sooner?
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There isn't a fixed timeline. It's decided by an independant counselor, but will involve regular testing. It's a longshot he gets back this year.
 
All of you put yourself in charge of a multi million dollar company. How many of you would dump millions into a drug addict that just completed a NASCAR 78 step drug rehab program?
 
Smoke14 said:
All of you put yourself in charge of a multi million dollar company. How many of you would dump millions into a drug addict that just completed a NASCAR 78 step drug rehab program?
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If the company were liberal enough to give the guy a break , the fans wouldn't hesitate to jeer them . Sorry , but it takes a great deal of money to run a team and fans are cruel.
 
Smoke14 said:
All of you put yourself in charge of a multi million dollar company. How many of you would dump millions into a drug addict that just completed a NASCAR 78 step drug rehab program?
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wtf are you talking about? where has anyone with inside knowledge said aj is a drug addict?
 
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