The phenomenon of title contenders winning the final race.

Formerjackman said:
Just to be clear here, I'm NOT claiming a conspiracy, I'm just trying to figure it out. Why are the championship contenders running SO MUCH better in the final race in the last five years than the 38 years before then?

2018: 1,2,3,4.
2017: 1,2,4,7
2016: 1,4,6, crashed while leading.
2105: 1,2,6,12.
2014: 1,2,7,16.

That's FOUR times in five years that two of the final four ran one-two in the finale. That only happened a few times in the 38 years preceding it. If that doesn't make you sit up and go "Hey, what's different now, then I don't know what to say.
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Final 4 and now it changes to final 2 which is very common. What's next? SMH, Johnson's 5 in a row were mind melded by aliens?
 
I think the drivers give the finalists a wide berth; they don't want to be the guy in the news for the wrong reasons. Even Newman gave them a pass. It's not a normal race and that is too bad.

Before the playoffs, the top drivers were mostly just points racing for the last month or two of the season.
 
I remember @Allenbaba had said that one year all the title contenders were given a little extra. Apparently it wasn’t a big secret.
 
Zerkfitting said:
I think the drivers give the finalists a wide berth; they don't want to be the guy in the news for the wrong reasons. Even Newman gave them a pass. It's not a normal race and that is too bad.

Before the playoffs, the top drivers were mostly just points racing for the last month or two of the season.
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hasn't changed much. Harvick did have a scare to make it into the finals, but the others were points racing for the most part the last race before the finals. Something Nascar thought was a problem a long time ago. To me it is like trying to change daylight into dark, it is always going to happen no matter what they come up with. It would be a whole lot more bearable without the screaming gerbils, this latest points system isn't all bad IMO
 
Just crunched some more data. Through the first 26 races of the season, there were only five races where three of the top four finalists finished in the top 4, but none in which all four did. During the first 9 races of the playoffs, there were two races where three of the top four finished in the top four, 2 races in which two did, and three races where only one did.
 
i've wore a tin hat for many years.......this is the only''sport'' i know of where a insider has not written an book that exposes the inner workings...
all 4 cars ran up front at one time..... 2 trains of thought on the #19 caution........a Ford wins the Ford Econo Boost
 
ChexOrWrex said:
I’m not a conspiracist when it comes to this matter, but this is just false. Newman was one yellow flag away from being the 2014 Champion. No different than MTJ on Sunday.

Have to be fast and have the chips fall their way.
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Its not false, you have confused "RACE" with "Winning." They had to race, period!
 
I am not a grassy knoll type but since Allen said the champ cars get a little extra I have no problem believing it. What is so difficult to believe about it?
 
TexasRaceLady said:
I'd much rather see concrete proof before I believe it. So far, all I've heard is talk.
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I think what you are saying is fair as I would definitely like to see tangible proof too. The only reason I have signed on to believing the 4 cup contenders get a little more is Allen as I believe him when he speaks. I hear what you are saying though.
 
I see it as a combo of 2 things that are pretty obvious to me:

1. The final 4 drivers have always had tp be running good of late to be there. I mean this season the 4, 18 & 78 were easily the 3 fastest cars all year and the the 22 got hot late and made a run at it.

2. The teams of these 4 cars now there is no chance that nascar would take away a win or title after the race has ended so theres alot of incentive to push the limits with the cars.
 
The Off Season is here........ Iam not sure I'd totally dismiss the idea that the Championship 4 get special treatment. If I had to bet I would say they do but I have no concrete proof except the data at Miami since 2014. It's not a good bet but maybe one I would be inclined to make. Conspiracy theorist yea I guess I fall in that group, but I wish I had reasonable proof to make a decision.
 
Snappy D said:
The Off Season is here........ Iam not sure I'd totally dismiss the idea that the Championship 4 get special treatment. If I had to bet I would say they do but I have no concrete proof except the data at Miami since 2014. It's not a good bet but maybe one I would be inclined to make. Conspiracy theorist yea I guess I fall in that group, but I wish I had reasonable proof to make a decision.
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Explain how you are going to keep that a secret within the hundreds of people who would have to know?
 
Spotter22 said:
Explain how you are going to keep that a secret within the hundreds of people who would have to know?
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For what it is worth the way it was explained to me is that during inspection some things may be overlooked. It is not something that hundreds of people would need to know about. Please bear in mind I am not trying to change your mind but reiterate what the forum’s insider had said.
 
IanMcVittie said:
For what it is worth the way it was explained to me is that during inspection some things may be overlooked. It is not something that hundreds of people would need to know about. Please bear in mind I am not trying to change your mind but reiterate what the forum’s insider had said.
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lol. If that forum "insider" ever pushed a car thru tech he'd eat those words.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
I'd much rather see concrete proof before I believe it. So far, all I've heard is talk.
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Oh, they get special treatment. But you're not going to find a smoking gun. There's no memo. But, these teams do know what's being tech'd Miami weekend and what's not. In other words they'll know where they can push it and where they can't. They will be given benefits of the doubt, etc. I remember when the 78 first made it to the Final Four and went through inspection, they passed it, but the inspection tech told the team president "you're going to need to push it MUCH further than this if you want to have a chance." They thought they were being set up. They weren't. They got creamed that race. But, they also learned how to "play the game."

Aside from minor tech advantages there are also other things to consider. No other competitor out there is going to race them hard. No one wants to be the guy who wrecks a contender. Plus, every single ounce of intelligence within a racing organization is solely focused on the championship 4 car. So, aside from the top car getting even faster with additional resources, the other standard front runners from within those same organizations might be lacking since they've had the "B" team on their Homestead car.

But still, even with a slight tech advantage (and it is very slight, it's not some outrageous advantage that anyone can walk by and spot) you still need to race a clean race, and have decent speed going in. NASCAR could give a 15th place car the same advantage and they'd still be lucky to crack the top 10. But when you have a top 3-8 car already, a slight edge (along with those other variables) would be enough to ride up front most of the day. Tech might also help you qualify better, and this is definitely a track position type race.
 
Spotter22 said:
lol. If that forum "insider" ever pushed a car thru tech he'd eat those words.
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Don’t stoop so low, man. @Allenbaba has been an excellent addition to the board. Whether it’s his unbiased take and information, quelling or approving rumors, or even gifting forum members with one of a kind memorabilia, the guy has a solid track record here.

He also doesn’t go around touting his experience from within acting like an omniscient character deciding opinions for others.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Don’t stoop so low, man. @Allenbaba has been an excellent addition to the board. Whether it’s his unbiased take and information, quelling or approving rumors, or even gifting forum members with one of a kind memorabilia, the guy has a solid track record here.

He also doesn’t go around touting his experience from within acting like an omniscient character deciding opinions for others.
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I said if he pushed a car through tech he would eat those words. Dont be so sensitive.
 
Spotter22 said:
Explain how you are going to keep that a secret within the hundreds of people who would have to know?
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Go ahead and find a racing person, ask him or her to tell you stories about all the shades of gray within enforcing the rules, and they will tell you many, many stories. No one is keeping secrets. Everyone talks about it. You just need to find one and listen.
 
Allenbaba said:
Go ahead and find a racing person, ask him or her to tell you stories about all the shades of gray within enforcing the rules, and they will tell you many, many stories. No one is keeping secrets. Everyone talks about it. You just need to find one and listen.
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Find a racing person? Hmmm ok. I'm not doubting what you've "heard" but in todays tech, NOBODY is getting a break.
 
Spotter22 said:
Find a racing person? Hmmm ok. I'm not doubting what you've "heard" but in todays tech, NOBODY is getting a break.
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As others have said Allen is rock solid and has no agenda or reasons to spin a yarn. Choosing not to believe him is completely your business but coming off like you know more than what he does doesn’t seem cool at all. JMO
 
Allenbaba said:
And why is that?
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Why would you ask that question, you know what the answer is right? You think NASCAR is knowingly allowing cars to cheat? Are you familiar with the tech process and how many people see that car? Even in stations that inspectors arent assigned they are trained to look for ANYTHING someone else might have missed?
 
Spotter22 said:
Explain how you are going to keep that a secret within the hundreds of people who would have to know?
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Therin lies the rub of the story, there are no secrets for long in the garage. Kyle Busch and Adam Stephens must not have got the memo.
 
Spotter22 said:
Why would you ask that question, you know what the answer is right? You think NASCAR is knowingly allowing cars to cheat? Are you familiar with the tech process and how many people see that car? Even in stations that inspectors arent assigned they are trained to look for ANYTHING someone else might have missed?
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So you think all things are black and white? No room for subjectivity? Interesting. Also, do you think they tech the entire car each week? Do you think they always tech it the same? Or do you think they mix it up so that teams are unsure of what's being looked at when they show up to track. I know the answer because I've walked cars through tech many times, so I'm curious what your answer is?
 
Again, it's not like the teams are given more horsepower and rocket fuel. They are just on one side of the "gray" while everyone else is on the other side of the "gray." It's really not a big difference. But, when you're already a top team, it's just enough difference.
 
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