The phenomenon of title contenders winning the final race.

Maybe the additional resources the 4 are pouring into their Homestead cars is enough to explain the performance boost? All of them bringing their best stuff to the finale. Add in other driver's and cc's not wanting to mix it up around them, and the fact that they've been 4 of the fastest cars all season, and voila we have our reasons why they've run as good as they have.
 
Maybe the additional resources the 4 are pouring into their Homestead cars is enough to explain the performance boost? All of them bringing their best stuff to the finale. Add in other driver's and cc's not wanting to mix it up around them, and the fact that they've been 4 of the fastest cars all season, and voila we have our reasons why they've run as good as they have.
Please stop injecting logic into this conversation.
 
Thru the years all sports have been hit with a '' Tell All '' book about shady happenings in the sport...Not NASCAR..Are they that strong that not one of a hundred drivers that people would know has not come out with a book ??? Some thing to think about..
Ted Musgrave threatened to write a tell all book when NASCAR basically took away a truck championship from him...it never happened...hmmm
 
Conspiracies feed more than one cognitive bias.

They also require thought, input and action from more than 1 person. In this case, literally dozens of people, all presumably sworn to secrecy. No-one ever tells a friend or a family member. No-one ever has too much to drink. No-one ever uses the information to get at somebody.

And to date, no-one has written a tell-all book, including Ted Musgrave. Talk is cheap.
 
And to date, no-one has written a tell-all book, including Ted Musgrave. Talk is cheap.
Neither is it some underhanded thing to explain to Sr or Gordo that padding a lead is bad for business. Last time I looked, they didn't award bonus points for lapping the field.
 
If you don’t think nascar wants game 7 moments with late restarts and the championship 4 1-4 every year I don’t know what to tell you. Seems WWE Esque to me
 
I'll put my tinfoil hat on and say they're advised to not bury the 4 on pit road strategy either. Combine that with "not running them hard" and it's easy to see why 4 of the fastest cars would keep winning the races.

No idea if "allowances" are happening or continuing to happen. NASCAR using every angle to prop up their finale, doesn't seem far fetched.
Are you kidding me?
 
It’s not that one of the final 4 wins the race.

It’s that, barring a wreck or mechanical failure, all of the final 4 seemingly end up basically finishing P1-P4 and are the fastest cars all day.

We haven’t seen a team “just miss it” while making big swings for the biggest race of their careers.
Jimmie Johnson flat lucked in to his win.
 
Neither is it some underhanded thing to explain to Sr or Gordo that padding a lead is bad for business. Last time I looked, they didn't award bonus points for lapping the field.
I think the subject matter was NASCAR having a second set of rules for contenders and managing the finishes at Homestead.

Naturally, I could be worng.
 
Maybe the additional resources the 4 are pouring into their Homestead cars is enough to explain the performance boost? All of them bringing their best stuff to the finale. Add in other driver's and cc's not wanting to mix it up around them, and the fact that they've been 4 of the fastest cars all season, and voila we have our reasons why they've run as good as they have.
You're saying that, the best teams bring their best cars to Homestead, period. While the rest of the field, who doesn't want to interfere with in-race drama, may not even have their best stuff.. so the result is the evident edge in speed?

I do think it's a tad fishy, but Gordon and Johnson's final 4 showings challenge that a bit.

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I'm late to the party. Is it worth reading through 240+ comments or this is Tin Foil material?


Well, since I started this whole thing, here's my take; If you compare the results in the final race of the season, it is rather obvious that the final four cars are performing at a MUCH higher level than championship contending cars ever did in the past by a fairly wide margin. I think something explains that, I just don't know what. Despite all the teeth grinding, I haven't heard anything that sways me to a particular theory.
 
It's pretty simple to me. Toyota poured all their money into three cars. Penske blew it, they had two shots at it. So that leaves SHR. Honerable mention for Hendrick, there is a lot of potential but the results aren't that great. I'm sure Toyota picked up and ran with the new car rules and pretty much supplying the lions share to only 4 cars after getting Barney out of the way, it payed off. SHR started off on the wrong foot and has been playing catch up every since. The wild card is that SHR/Harvick have been pretty good on 1.5's lately, but I wouldn't rule out a 1,2,3 finish for the JGR cars if they hit the setups.
 
I cant help but thinking about next year with the final race in Phoenix.
Its possible the final four going across the finish line 4 wide. Now that's
a "Prelude to the Dream."
 
O'Donnell is already saying all things are on the table when it comes to Phoenix being the last race after next year, so they might be on a short rope. As far as I am concerned, rotation to other tracks for the final race would work for me. I'm tired of Homestead, not that it is a bad track or anything, change to the schedule is good IMO.
 
Well, since I started this whole thing, here's my take; If you compare the results in the final race of the season, it is rather obvious that the final four cars are performing at a MUCH higher level than championship contending cars ever did in the past by a fairly wide margin. I think something explains that, I just don't know what. Despite all the teeth grinding, I haven't heard anything that sways me to a particular theory.
did you see my post #240 ??......Vegas has been swayed..
 
I reminder Gordon had that race under control in 2014 and suddenly made an odd pit decision that put them out of contention. I always thought that was strange. Pretty much handed harvick the race.
 
O'Donnell is already saying all things are on the table when it comes to Phoenix being the last race after next year, so they might be on a short rope. As far as I am concerned, rotation to other tracks for the final race would work for me. I'm tired of Homestead, not that it is a bad track or anything, change to the schedule is good IMO.
vegas as the final race
has always been the plan.
 
Several drivers have come out against nascar manipulating things. Jeff Gordon said they told him to keep his leads down to 3 seconds.

In Rich Bickles book he said in a truck race that they flat out told him if he led by too much they would black flag him. Another time he showed up with a car so far off there was no way it would fit the templates, but they allowed it anyway because his sponsor was also sponsoring the race. In that case qualifying got rained out so he didn't end of making the field.

Nascar has done some shading things in the past, they're just better at hiding it when you have less competitors

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I don't like it either but promoters have been telling dominate drivers not to stink up the show for years on most every level. It hurts attendance.

Years ago a friend of mine was told not stink up a Legends Pro division car race at the old new Ashville speedway. He didn't listen and won by a half a lap margin.
The next race someone bought his engine based on a post race claimer rule. It was the only time it happened to him in spite of countless wins. The timing was not coincidental.
He didn't miss races but it took him about month to get back to winning with the new engine.

FTR I think the promoter was a good one. He may have not been directly involved the claim retaliation. It could have just been a pissed off competitor wanting to slow him down.They had more money and they could have hired the same builder, they did not need the engine.

But even so promoters wanting good attendance usually are opposed to a single dominant driver. I have seen them put up bounties, inverted line ups etc.
 
I don't like it either but promoters have been telling dominate drivers not to stink up the show for years on most every level. It hurts attendance.

Years ago a friend of mine was told not stink up a Legends Pro division car race at the old new Ashville speedway. He didn't listen and won by a half a lap margin.
The next race someone bought his engine based on a post race claimer rule. It was the only time it happened to him in spite of countless wins. The timing was not coincidental.
He didn't miss races but it took him about month to get back to winning with the new engine.

FTR I think the promoter was a good one. He may have not been directly involved the claim retaliation. It could have just been a pissed off competitor wanting to slow him down.They had more money and they could have hired the same builder, they did not need the engine.

But even so promoters wanting good attendance usually are opposed to a single dominant driver. I have seen them put up bounties, inverted line ups etc.
We were told the same thing at Myrtle Beach Speedway in the late model division, they threw countless cautions during the year where they would send the cleanup truck out and it would ride around the track and never stop then come back down pit road. All it did was piss off my driver ( Charles Powell III) and he would stretch it out even more until they threw it again. I totally get why they did it because yes, we were stinking up the show.
 
I hope they rotate it among Fontana, Las Vegas, Phoenix, Atlanta, Homestead personally.
 
Oh, they get special treatment. But you're not going to find a smoking gun. There's no memo. But, these teams do know what's being tech'd Miami weekend and what's not. In other words they'll know where they can push it and where they can't. They will be given benefits of the doubt, etc. I remember when the 78 first made it to the Final Four and went through inspection, they passed it, but the inspection tech told the team president "you're going to need to push it MUCH further than this if you want to have a chance." They thought they were being set up. They weren't. They got creamed that race. But, they also learned how to "play the game."

Aside from minor tech advantages there are also other things to consider. No other competitor out there is going to race them hard. No one wants to be the guy who wrecks a contender. Plus, every single ounce of intelligence within a racing organization is solely focused on the championship 4 car. So, aside from the top car getting even faster with additional resources, the other standard front runners from within those same organizations might be lacking since they've had the "B" team on their Homestead car.

But still, even with a slight tech advantage (and it is very slight, it's not some outrageous advantage that anyone can walk by and spot) you still need to race a clean race, and have decent speed going in. NASCAR could give a 15th place car the same advantage and they'd still be lucky to crack the top 10. But when you have a top 3-8 car already, a slight edge (along with those other variables) would be enough to ride up front most of the day. Tech might also help you qualify better, and this is definitely a track position type race.

Those who seek to perish the notion that such a thing could even be possible (never!) and then obfuscate until it morphs into "So what if they do? It happens everywhere." should address whether they believe @Allenbaba is a liar, a fabulist, or perhaps mentally impaired? It can't be that he is just mistaken, as he is relating apparent experiences and quotes.

Um, those cars have been the fastest pretty much all year. Look out behind you!

This is also true. The performance gap between the elite teams and the rest of the field has only grown during the playoffs era. It would be shocking if another team suddenly found the ability to erase the considerable advantage JGR and at times the #4 has had at intermediates throughout the season.

This isn't binary. The four championship finalists already have been the best or among the best all year, and NASCAR strongly prefers they be racing up front for the win. They have many edges coming into Homestead, including greater incentive, confidence, and motivation.
 
O'Donnell is already saying all things are on the table when it comes to Phoenix being the last race after next year, so they might be on a short rope. As far as I am concerned, rotation to other tracks for the final race would work for me. I'm tired of Homestead, not that it is a bad track or anything, change to the schedule is good IMO.
Rotation would be cool, but I feel like you need atleast a mile and a half for the championship race.

Bristol at night would be cool.

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Well shocking it happened again this year.....

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Championship four driver laps led: 266

Non-championship four driver laps led: 1


I suppose it's a pattern at this point.
 
Had to laugh. Thought of this thread while watching race, somewhere around lap 150/175, don’t remember.

the fab 4 were running P1-4.

If not for pit cycles/strategy, and the Trollex crew botching a stop, they probably wouldn’t have been more than a few positions apart the entire race. lol
 
It's pretty simple to me. Toyota poured all their money into three cars. Penske blew it, they had two shots at it. So that leaves SHR. Honerable mention for Hendrick, there is a lot of potential but the results aren't that great. I'm sure Toyota picked up and ran with the new car rules and pretty much supplying the lions share to only 4 cars after getting Barney out of the way, it payed off. SHR started off on the wrong foot and has been playing catch up every since. The wild card is that SHR/Harvick have been pretty good on 1.5's lately, but I wouldn't rule out a 1,2,3 finish for the JGR cars if they hit the setups.

Yup....just about money. That's all. Silly. Small car counts was once thought of as a disadvantage, now it is perceived as an advantage because TRD kicked ass all year. BTW....doing business with quality teams (not quantity) has been part of TRD's mission statement since 2007, but sorry to disrupt your narrative....it works when you are talking to yourself.
 
This conspiracy is sank for me, between Austin Hill dominating in trucks and Briscoe/Cindric leading parts of xfin, I'm now forced to believe that it's only happening for the Cup series? I'm selling. I think they're the 4 fastest cars of the season (usually), with other factors exaggerating their advantage.

Also, Larson has had the fastest homestead car in 2 separate seasons, 1 he did not capitalize on because of fear of interrupting the championship battle, the other he was leading with 15 laps left before they threw the caution with Edwards in 2nd place.
 
The best three cars in Xfinity were in combat, Ford Chevy and Toyota (who'd a thunk it) they also were in cup just not close together and Chevy has been pretty bad for three years but they made it to the last round. That screws with some fans heads that think every race it's simple to have it that way close combat every race. The trucks were a different animal. They didn't have the luxury of a long set of stages. It was three and done, on to the final so Hill's bunch, a series winner had a bit of bad luck in the playoffs and frankly they weren't as strong this year. On top of that they had the Hill wrecks Sauter and then Sauter wrecks Hill that screwed up their playoff points. They showed up for the final race though with a vengeance. They are going to be good next year, looks like they had a lot more sponsorship this year.
 
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