The Sky Is Falling

I think blaming fad fans as the reason NASCAR began its decline is inaccurate as had NASCAR provided a decent product a good many of them would still be fans today.

I think the poor attendance at Indy sparked a lot of talk about what is wrong with NASCAR as many who don't follow the series didn't realize the tough issues it faces. There will probably be more pain ahead for NASCAR until market resets it but then things should settle in.
 
(This is my first post. I have lurked here for awhile and find many of the post on the forum highly entertaining. It made me want to join the conversation.)

NASCAR like all of motorsports should be taking notice that the death of gas powered racing was announced over the past few weeks. When you have manufacturers and countries that are starting to state that they are doing away with or restricting the sale of new vehicles that are powered completely by fossil fuels by certain dates then whatever gas powered sport needs to take notice. It will mean that manufacturers will have to start spending R&D money to meet those requirements and not seek to fund outdated forms of powering a vehicle. I wonder what motorsports will have as their engines in 20 years? Hybrids? Electric?

If I was in charge of NASCAR, I'd be thinking about those announcements and dealing with the possible ramifications. Otherwise, it will go the way of the dodo bird.
 
Towmater said:
(This is my first post. I have lurked here for awhile and find many of the post on the forum highly entertaining. It made me want to join the conversation.)

NASCAR like all of motorsports should be taking notice that the death of gas powered racing was announced over the past few weeks. When you have manufacturers and countries that are starting to state that they are doing away with or restricting the sale of new vehicles that are powered completely by fossil fuels by certain dates then whatever gas powered sport needs to take notice. It will mean that manufacturers will have to start spending R&D money to meet those requirements and not seek to fund outdated forms of powering a vehicle. I wonder what motorsports will have as their engines in 20 years? Hybrids? Electric?

If I was in charge of NASCAR, I'd be thinking about those announcements and dealing with the possible ramifications. Otherwise, it will go the way of the dodo bird.
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Welcome and I hope you continue to participate. Nascar is an organization that has nothing to do with stock car racing so they can continue to use V8 RWD engine vehicles that few people drive any longer or that manufacturers produce. As far as I know Nascar still uses a push rod V8 which is antique and tiny little 15 inch wheels so I don't think we will see Nascar using a zero emissions car in the foreseeable future
 
Towmater said:
(This is my first post. I have lurked here for awhile and find many of the post on the forum highly entertaining. It made me want to join the conversation.)

NASCAR like all of motorsports should be taking notice that the death of gas powered racing was announced over the past few weeks. When you have manufacturers and countries that are starting to state that they are doing away with or restricting the sale of new vehicles that are powered completely by fossil fuels by certain dates then whatever gas powered sport needs to take notice. It will mean that manufacturers will have to start spending R&D money to meet those requirements and not seek to fund outdated forms of powering a vehicle. I wonder what motorsports will have as their engines in 20 years? Hybrids? Electric?

If I was in charge of NASCAR, I'd be thinking about those announcements and dealing with the possible ramifications. Otherwise, it will go the way of the dodo bird.
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I'm wondering how I'm going to tow my 14,000lb 5er to a race of my choice with my electric pickup truck? I'm kinda thinking that day we switch away from the fossil fuel era will be the end of the RV generation. Wow, we think the seats are empty now..... Just wait.
 
I live in Oklahoma, the oil boys around here say Oklahoma has reserves enough to last 400 years FWIW. What America decides doesn't mean squat to the rest of the world. Show me a car or truck that can go coast to coast or even 500 miles or doesn't use fossil fuel to recharge, Nuclear fusion power is a joke. Until they can get fission to work, and then get it to work dependably then come on with your deathbed. I'll be pushing up daises by then. BTW this is a racing forum, it doesn't have a wonder when section. You might have interest in electric racing, just ignore the plug in and your fine.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
Welcome and I hope you continue to participate. Nascar is an organization that has nothing to do with stock car racing so they can continue to use V8 RWD engine vehicles that few people drive any longer or that manufacturers produce. As far as I know Nascar still uses a push rod V8 which is antique and tiny little 15 inch wheels so I don't think we will see Nascar using a zero emissions car in the foreseeable future
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It isn't about tomorrow or 5 to 10 years from now. It is 15 to 20 years from now. The manufacturer money that pours into a fossil fuel powered vehicle sport is going to dry up over time if that sport doesn't move to match what consumers are purchasing. Why would Toyota, Ford, or whomever seek to fund R&D into engines that are no longer viable for them to gain data from to better the engines inside the cars that they pay to have run on the track or to place teams or drivers under contract to run and/or drive?

The answer is they won't and money is what makes this sport go. (I hope that how I phrased that makes my point clearer).
 
Towmater said:
It isn't about tomorrow or 5 to 10 years from now. It is 15 to 20 years from now. The manufacturer money that pours into a fossil fuel powered vehicle sport is going to dry up over time if that sport doesn't move to match what consumers are purchasing. Why would Toyota, Ford, or whomever seek to fund R&D into engines that are no longer viable for them to gain data from to better the engines inside the cars that they pay to have run on the track or to place teams or drivers under contract to run and/or drive?

The answer is they won't and money is what makes this sport go. (I hope that how I phrased that makes my point clearer).
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Nascar's current number one issue is a very old fan base so they will need to find out what young people want to see in a racing series (if anything) and provide that product. Fifteen to 20 years from Nascar may involve fans driving sim cars and competing against the drivers. Who knows?
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
Nascar's current number one issue is a very old fan base so they will need to find out what young people want to see in a racing series (if anything) and provide that product. Fifteen to 20 years from Nascar may involve fans driving sim cars and competing against the drivers. Who knows?
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If they had addressed the aging of their fan base 10 years ago when the numbers started to first fall then maybe they would have 1/2 of the TV viewers they had at the height of the popularity. Short term solutions to long term issues aren't working. You have to have long term planning or you are always going to be behind in what you are attempting to do. Being reactionary all the time brings about the end at an accelerated pace.
 
"Diesel and gasoline-powered vehicles officially are an endangered species in Germany, and possibly all of the EU. This after Germany’s Bundesrat has passed a resolution to ban the internal combustion engine starting in 2030......

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...solves-end-of-internal-combustion-engine/amp/

That's only 13 years away and lots of our ruling elites think we need to follow suit.

Speaking for me personally, the biggest things I dislike about NASCAR today are:

The Chase
The Stages
Convenient yellow flags
The TV presentation (commercials, focus on the wrong stuff, too much non-race fluff etc.)

Just let them race and give me as much of the TV screen as possible to see the action.
 
harkin said:
"Diesel and gasoline-powered vehicles officially are an endangered species in Germany, and possibly all of the EU. This after Germany’s Bundesrat has passed a resolution to ban the internal combustion engine starting in 2030......

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...solves-end-of-internal-combustion-engine/amp/
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Tesla is doing famously over there I see. Our tax dollars at work.

experts of Germany’s transport ministry declared Tesla’s autopilot a "considerable traffic hazard," Der Spiegel wrote yesterday. Transport Minister Dobrindt so far stands between removing Germany’s 3,000 Tesla cars from the road, the magazine writes. Actually, until the report surfaced, the minister’s plan was to subsidize Autopilot research in Germany’s inner cities. “Let’s hope no Tesla accident happens,” the minister’s bureaucrats told Der Spiegel. It happened, but no-one died.
 
harkin said:
"Diesel and gasoline-powered vehicles officially are an endangered species in Germany, and possibly all of the EU. This after Germany’s Bundesrat has passed a resolution to ban the internal combustion engine starting in 2030......

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...solves-end-of-internal-combustion-engine/amp/

That's only 13 years away and lots of our ruling elites think we need to follow suit.

Speaking for me personally, the biggest things I dislike about NASCAR today are:

The Chase
The Stages
Convenient yellow flags
The TV presentation (commercials, focus on the wrong stuff, too much non-race fluff etc.)

Just let them race and give me as much of the TV screen as possible to see the action.
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If you look at what those types of announcements force upon manufacturers of vehicles then I hope you understand what I am attempting to convey in my post. It isn't about the "ruling elite" as you put it.

It is about market forces on an industry.

An example of that would be the size of vehicles today vs yesterday. Market forces caused those changes. The US manufactures of vehicles had to compete with cars from Japan that were cheaper, smaller, and got better gas mileage. Thus, the manufacturers in the US had to change.

Change in the auto industry is coming. It may not move into the US first but Europe is leading the charge. Manufacturers are following suit. Volvo is looking to end the manufacture of their vehicle with 100% fossil fuel burning engines by 2020. They might not meet the goal they announce but they are moving in that direction. Telsa has over 1/2 million reservations for their model 3. I saw a Model X lesss than a week ago on the freeway. No not a CA freeway, I55 in MO. The old adage applies here, You can lead, follow, or get out of the way. The car manufacturers aren't going to let some new guy take that market. They are pivoting to meet the demand of the market like they always have in the past. Nascar would be smart to listen and plan for what that might entail is the point I am making.
 
dude, they have been racing cars that weren't production models for over a hundred years. what the fuke is your point? Tesla going to race in Nascar?
 
StandOnIt said:
dude, they have been racing cars that weren't production models for over a hundred years. what the fuke is you point?
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Dude, they use to race chariots too. They don't do that too much anymore. Change happens. You either plan for it, and change with it or you cease to exist. That's the point. The marketplace that NASCAR sits within is changing. The manufacturers that FUND the business model are evolving and so are their products. NASCAR needs to plan for it is my point. Pretty simple.
 
The range of the most popular Tesla model is 300 miles ... followed immediately by a 9 hour recharge.

If planning for NASCAR'S change to electric vehicle racing was my job, I'd be out fishing today.
 
StandOnIt said:
got one foot in the past and another in the future, and pissing all over today...good plan
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Any business entity that doesn't plan for tomorrow dies. Change is the only constant. You adapt or die. It can't be broken down any simpler than that. You must be a purest that still want NASCAR to race like it did when The King raced. Lets see, that means one guy dominating the season, 7 cars on the lead lap when the race ends, listening to the race on the radio, using terms like "chick" "groovy" "square", and maybe seeing parts of it on ABC's Wild World of Sports. Man, wouldn't that be a great place to return to? Nope, not really. So, NASCAR evolved.
 
there we go another deathbed..we have numerous posts for that around here. lets talk end of the world next.
 
aunty dive said:
The range of the most popular Tesla model is 300 miles ... followed immediately by a 9 hour recharge.

If planning for NASCAR'S change to electric vehicle racing was my job, I'd be out fishing today.
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You might want to plan for smaller fields, smaller future TV contract dollars, less people in your stands and less companies being interested in paying anywhere near what you used to get to have your flagship product bare their corporation's name.
 
Towmater said:
Dude, they use to race chariots too. They don't do that too much anymore. Change happens. You either plan for it, and change with it or you cease to exist. That's the point. The marketplace that NASCAR sits within is changing. The manufacturers that FUND the business model are evolving and so are their products. NASCAR needs to plan for it is my point. Pretty simple.
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It seems as though you have more than just a passing interest in Formula E racing. Shareholder? Spokesperson? Spin doctor? Team owner? You're trying awfully hard to sell us on E-Racing.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I'm wondering how I'm going to tow my 14,000lb 5er to a race of my choice with my electric pickup truck? I'm kinda thinking that day we switch away from the fossil fuel era will be the end of the RV generation. Wow, we think the seats are empty now..... Just wait.
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Or instead of that realize there are people definitely working on more powerful electric engines.
 
StandOnIt said:
there we go another deathbed..we have numerous posts for that around here. lets talk end of the world next.
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Dude, it ain't the end of the world. I was writing about change. Apparently, people within this sport just can't deal with change. Got a secret for you. The NASCAR of your memory ain't coming back. It is currently evolving and will continue to do so. Where it will end up I haven't a clue. However, to not plan for different paths that it might head down would be a determent to the sport and will lead to the continued decline of it.
Johali said:
It seems as though you have more than just a passing interest in Formula E racing. Shareholder? Spokesperson? Spin doctor? Team owner? You're trying awfully hard to sell us on E-Racing.
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Dude, I haven't writen anything about E racing. The next evolution in the vehicle market is occurring and started roughly 10 years ago. The idea of them start long before that. It is called the hybrid. The electric engine within vehicles is the next step. After that? Talk to a professor at a university.

Seriously, your attempt to counter what I saying is to say I'm an E Team owner, sharehold, spokesperson. Gawd, that is laughable.
 
kkfan91 said:
Or instead of that realize there are people definitely working on more powerful electric engines.
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Some of those electric motors in production cars are pretty damn fast. I think a Tesla can get to 60 mph in like 4 seconds. Even the new Chevy Bolt can get to 60 in 6.5 seconds, which is about on par with the V-6 ponycars.
 
Towmater said:
Dude, they use to race chariots too. They don't do that too much anymore. Change happens. You either plan for it, and change with it or you cease to exist. That's the point. The marketplace that NASCAR sits within is changing. The manufacturers that FUND the business model are evolving and so are their products. NASCAR needs to plan for it is my point. Pretty simple.
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Hay is too expensive
 
Towmater said:
(This is my first post. I have lurked here for awhile and find many of the post on the forum highly entertaining. It made me want to join the conversation.)

NASCAR like all of motorsports should be taking notice that the death of gas powered racing was announced over the past few weeks. When you have manufacturers and countries that are starting to state that they are doing away with or restricting the sale of new vehicles that are powered completely by fossil fuels by certain dates then whatever gas powered sport needs to take notice. It will mean that manufacturers will have to start spending R&D money to meet those requirements and not seek to fund outdated forms of powering a vehicle. I wonder what motorsports will have as their engines in 20 years? Hybrids? Electric?

If I was in charge of NASCAR, I'd be thinking about those announcements and dealing with the possible ramifications. Otherwise, it will go the way of the dodo bird.
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C'mon out of the closet!

I wish more people would lurk on a forum for a couple of weeks before opening up. It's a change to get the lay of the land, figure out what's acceptable, who's who, etc.
 
StandOnIt said:
Tesla is doing famously over there I see. Our tax dollars at work.

experts of Germany’s transport ministry declared Tesla’s autopilot a "considerable traffic hazard," Der Spiegel wrote yesterday. Transport Minister Dobrindt so far stands between removing Germany’s 3,000 Tesla cars from the road, the magazine writes. Actually, until the report surfaced, the minister’s plan was to subsidize Autopilot research in Germany’s inner cities. “Let’s hope no Tesla accident happens,” the minister’s bureaucrats told Der Spiegel. It happened, but no-one died.
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Autopilot technology isn't tied to electric propulsion.
 
Towmater said:
Is it your intention to live up to your personal quote in the post you make? If so, you have it down pat.
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I somehow manage to survive here on that basis. You just take care of yourself.

I think most people are pretty clear on what you've said, given that you've said all of it three times. So ... what solutions do you propose and on what sort of time-line?
 
aunty dive said:
I somehow manage to survive here on that basis. You just take care of yourself.

I think most people are pretty clear on what you've said, given that you've said all of it three times. So ... what solutions do you propose and on what sort of time-line?
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With posts like this to new members, its a wonder anyone that lurks decides to join up.
 
There are a zillion reasons for the decline in racing and sports in general, pick one, anybody can do it, it's a simpletons game IMO. Predicting the future if you think about it very hard is pretty much a waste of time. It is good though to have some of the earth is flat, man will never fly, man will never make it to the moon, the world will end during y2k future thinkers types here though. Takes all kinds they say.
 
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