Too Aggressive?

Turtle84

Turtle84

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Has the art of the clean pass been lost? the day after Ty Gibbs knocks JHN up the track for the race win

Hamlin
“I don’t think there is any consequences to it,” Hamlin said Saturday at Richmond Raceway. “We’ve seen you can kind of do whatever. You might be worried about getting wrecked here and there in the future, but I think it’s just become accepted. The art of passing is just something that isn’t quite used as much nowadays. The easier route is getting them out of your way as quick as possible by moving them. I’ve done it — every time I’ve done it, it has been unintentional, but I think it’s become more of an intentional move in the years lately.”

Harvick
“I think that’s important to have that flare and fire because that’s what’s going to set you aside from everybody else,” Harvick said. “Having some of that personality and that ‘I don’t give a (expletive)’ attitude about what happens and if you don’t like it, sorry. Having that edge is something that will make him popular because of the way that he races. He doesn’t have to do anything else. Just race like that and the people will gravitate toward you because it’s exciting to watch and you’re winning.”

https://www.nascar.com/news-media/2...rans-have-mixed-feelings-on-evolving-tactics/
 
Turtle84 said:
Has the art of the clean pass been lost?
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Yes....and I am over it. This is all about who does it. We celebrate the bull**** we saw last week, but imagine...just imagine if it had been Denny, or Kyle.....Spare me the trolling/flaming BS. I am right. Period. What Ross pulled last week was a thousand times worse than what Ty pulled, but it's Ty, and it's a Coach thing. I don't mind when we rate the quality of the race based on if our guy wins, but when we rate the quality of the racing by this kind of thing...I have a problem with that....and Denny is 100% on the payback thing.....Briscoe should have been launched by now. Why hasn't Denny done it? Maybe he doesn't want the sport to sink to this. The Hack has one coming too, but ya know, maybe the thought of the cute smile and a t-shirt is more than Denny can stomach. Hell, when you think of it.....what Denny did to the Almighty at Martinsville a few years ago wasn't as bad as what went down at COTA.
 
I wouldn't classify what Ty did as bump n run, seemed more driving thru the door hip check to me imo.

I would say that the favor was not returned with how clean Nemechek raced him.
 
Revman said:
Yes....and I am over it. This is all about who does it. We celebrate the bull**** we saw last week, but imagine...just imagine if it had been Denny, or Kyle.....Spare me the trolling/flaming BS. I am right. Period. What Ross pulled last week was a thousand times worse than what Ty pulled, but it's Ty, and it's a Coach thing. I don't mind when we rate the quality of the race based on if our guy wins, but when we rate the quality of the racing by this kind of thing...I have a problem with that....and Denny is 100% on the payback thing.....Briscoe should have been launched by now. Why hasn't Denny done it? Maybe he doesn't want the sport to sink to this. The Hack has one coming too, but ya know, maybe the thought of the cute smile and a t-shirt is more than Denny can stomach. Hell, when you think of it.....what Denny did to the Almighty at Martinsville a few years ago wasn't as bad as what went down at COTA.
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Yo, bud we are talking about one incident that happened yesterday, not a litney of your imagined victimizations lol.
 
Turtle84 said:
I wouldn't classify what Ty did as bump n run, seemed more driving thru the door hip check to me imo.

I would say that the favor was not returned with how clean Nemechek raced him.
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I really get tired of Nemechek whining after every freaking race. Cringeworthy as they say. Anybody but Ty (or Denny, or Kyle, or, or, or), and we are talking about driving in deep, and pushing up.
 
Revman said:
Yes....and I am over it. This is all about who does it. We celebrate the bull**** we saw last week, but imagine...just imagine if it had been Denny, or Kyle.....Spare me the trolling/flaming BS. I am right. Period. What Ross pulled last week was a thousand times worse than what Ty pulled, but it's Ty, and it's a Coach thing. I don't mind when we rate the quality of the race based on if our guy wins, but when we rate the quality of the racing by this kind of thing...I have a problem with that....and Denny is 100% on the payback thing.....Briscoe should have been launched by now. Why hasn't Denny done it? Maybe he doesn't want the sport to sink to this. The Hack has one coming too, but ya know, maybe the thought of the cute smile and a t-shirt is more than Denny can stomach. Hell, when you think of it.....what Denny did to the Almighty at Martinsville a few years ago wasn't as bad as what went down at COTA.
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I think it's also a different situation when it comes to talking about getting win #1 at the Cup level in last lap situations, you just gotta do what you gotta do sometimes to break through the barrier and into the win column, it's not ideal I'm sure, and it's not something Ross wanted to do on AJ I'm sure, it's tough to pass on the opportunity to abide by the racing etiquette in that situation.
 
I like hard intense racing, thats what it is all about. But. I dont care for the "bump and runs" that so many celebrate.
Especially when paired with a late race yellow flag that could actually put the 2nd place car into the most advantageous postion.

I would agree it is a fine line, if the car in front is blocking and mirror driving I am all for using the front bumper in those cases.
Some innocent bumping will happen as well when racing and thats part of the beauty of close quarters racing.

But thats a lot different than a 2nd place blatantly car overdriving the apex on the last lap to knock the lead car out of the way.
And eff that garbage about bumping him without spinning him out. You just ran into the car in front of you that couldn't pass cleanly, eff you and your BS ethics or drivers code. It's already obvious you don't give **** about those things.

Clarification: I didnt get to see the Richmond infinity race yesterday or the Ty Gibbs/JHN last last lap incident, this post isnt influenced by it either.
 
I have different expectations for different forms of racing. If I was watching open wheel or sports cars, most of the behaviors described above would have me screaming for the authorities to penalize the offender.

This is stock cars. Rubbin' is racin', and beating and banging are the norm. If it was good enough for Kurt Busch and Ricky Craven, it's good enough for Ty Gibbs and John Hunter Nemechek, and for Ross Chastain, Alex Bowman, and AJ Allmendinger.
 
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Why wait till last couple laps. Just do it like Dale Sr. If you were in front of him he would move you. Period. No apologizes. If I were in the Infinity field I'd "move" Mr Gibbs every time I could. Lap 3? Move him. Lap 140? Move him, into something hard if possible. Let's see how he likes it. You race others like they race you, right? Live by the sword, die by the sword.

I hated Dale Sr cause he was an azzhole to everyone. Even his kids. He doesn't deserve the adulation he's gotten.
 
As a great man once said, at the end of the day, each person's gotta look at themselves in the mirror and make the move that they're comfortable with, and if you're okay with it, you're okay with it. Each person's different, so...

I don't think that the art of the clean pass has been lost - far from it - but stock cars and trucks have fenders and bumpers, and these kids today are hungry. They're tryna eat. John Hunter Nemechek certainly knows all about that hunger. In a vacuum, I can understand him being upset about having lost a race, but I don't think he has any room whatsoever to complain. On this day several years ago, he was the bat. Yesterday, he was the ball. Oh well. That's racin'. Thangs happen.

 
JHN has no room to complain.

Everyone’s done it before.

My issue is, Ty Gibbs couldn’t have won without driving through JHN and he knew it. I don’t like the “win at all costs” attitude.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
JHN has no room to complain.

Everyone’s done it before.

My issue is, Ty Gibbs couldn’t have won without driving through JHN and he knew it. I don’t like the “win at all costs” attitude.
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If moving people is fair game, just knock them out of the race early. Eliminates them coming back later in the race. Except Kenseth. <the greatest moment in racing, ever>
 
The two drivers speaking out on the topic lol. It’s always the same guys doin the talkin



I dunno, cages have been gettin rattled for decades, and bumpers have been used even longer… not really sure what else to say
 
KTMLew01 said:
Why wait till last couple laps. Just do it like Dale Sr. If you were in front of him he would move you. Period. No apologizes. If I were in the Infinity field I'd "move" Mr Gibbs every time I could. Lap 3? Move him. Lap 140? Move him, into something hard if possible. Let's see how he likes it. You race others like they race you, right? Live by the sword, die by the sword.

I hated Dale Sr cause he was an azzhole to everyone. Even his kids. He doesn't deserve the adulation he's gotten.
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I think the problem is that we have a half dozen or so who think they command the same respect as Sr. Back in the day....there was just one. The stuff about his kids....not part of the story....and he deserves literally ALL of the adulation and then some....he was the face of this sport---and it was good.
 
KTMLew01 said:
If moving people is fair game, just knock them out of the race early. Eliminates them coming back later in the race. Except Kenseth. <the greatest moment in racing, ever>
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I agree, but the narrative of "all in" when "the chips are on the line" bull**** narratives....
 
every driver does the same… I guess hamlin and harvick forget stuff tho



 
Turtle84 said:
I wouldn't classify what Ty did as bump n run, seemed more driving thru the door hip check to me imo.

I would say that the favor was not returned with how clean Nemechek raced him.
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Yep, post #5 showed you can race cleanly but hard side-by-side there. Don’t like this trend where you just miss a corner and/or drive through people.
 
I don't see where Ty supposedly did anything wrong yesterday.
The bump and run has always been a part of stock car racing and it always will be. When a driver has the chance to get the win they will always do anything in their power to get the W.
What I don't like is when some drivers confuse Bristol and Talladega. The amount of bonehead moves during superspeedway races is way too high .
 
donthaveanickname said:
I don't see where Ty supposedly did anything wrong yesterday.
The bump and run has always been a part of stock car racing and it always will be. When a driver has the chance to get the win they will always do anything in their power to get the W.
What I don't like is when some drivers confuse Bristol and Talladega. The amount of bonehead moves during superspeedway races is way too high .
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Well, after the bump JHN managed to keep it together and stay on the outside, and then Ty drove him towards the wall at the next corner. The first move isn’t bad, the second is different - imo.
 
donthaveanickname said:
I don't see where Ty supposedly did anything wrong yesterday.
The bump and run has always been a part of stock car racing and it always will be. When a driver has the chance to get the win they will always do anything in their power to get the W.
What I don't like is when some drivers confuse Bristol and Talladega. The amount of bonehead moves during superspeedway races is way too high .
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Exactly.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Well, after the bump JHN managed to keep it together and stay on the outside, and then Ty drove him towards the wall at the next corner. The first move isn’t bad, the second is different - imo.
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The difference is JHN is as good as he’ll ever be. He will never be a Cup star.
I believe Ty has the cha-cha.
 
The goalpost has been moved.

What Carl Edwards did to Kyle Busch at Bristol 08 and Richmond in 2016 is childs play.

Driving in a hair too deep and moving the guy in front of you was slightly taboo, but generally, it was a bump and run and accepted.

What Ty did, deliberately drive it in and checking the lead car out of the way would not have flown back in 2016/pre playoff format. There was a line drivers wouldn't cross to win.

However, with the winner take all format, this sort of racing is more or less accepted. Is it classy, and clean, respectable, fair racing?

Honestly, in today's NASCAR, it is. So it is what it is.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 
LOL at a Gibbs driver whining about the physicality of racing now and then playing the victim. And the JGR fans defending him and his teammates like they are victims as well. That's rich.

Harvick is basically defending it and his his past actions when he thought he was Dale Earnhardt.

And DE was a dirtbag Dad (ask Kerry-another man raised him) and squealed as much as Denny is/does when he got moved.
 
jaqua19 said:
The goalpost has been moved.

What Carl Edwards did to Kyle Busch at Bristol 08 and Richmond in 2016 is childs play.

Driving in a hair too deep and moving the guy in front of you was slightly taboo, but generally, it was a bump and run and accepted.

What Ty did, deliberately drive it in and checking the lead car out of the way would not have flown back in 2016/pre playoff format. There was a line drivers wouldn't cross to win.

However, with the winner take all format, this sort of racing is more or less accepted. Is it classy, and clean, respectable, fair racing?

Honestly, in today's NASCAR, it is. So it is what it is.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
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Then why the hell the uproar when Denny moved Chase at Martinsville a few years back? Yeah, I know. Whether we are talking about rating a race, or if a move was correct....it always comes down to who the driver is.
 
Ford 222 said:
And DE was a dirtbag Dad (ask Kerry-another man raised him) and squealed as much as Denny is/does when he got moved.
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Honestly, why does this matter? Tim Richmond is worshipped as one of the greatest. Heard Dr. Punch talk about all of the drivers ****ting themselves when he was diagnosed. Why do you think that was? What these drivers do in their own time doesn't interest me.
 
Revman said:
Honestly, why does this matter? Tim Richmond is worshipped as one of the greatest. Heard Dr. Punch talk about all of the drivers ****ting themselves when he was diagnosed. Why do you think that was? What these drivers do in their own time doesn't interest me.
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Matters to me when people make him out to be a God. Tim didn’t father any kids (that we know of) and intentionally not support them so he could race. If he did, he’s a dirtbag father too.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Well, after the bump JHN managed to keep it together and stay on the outside, and then Ty drove him towards the wall at the next corner. The first move isn’t bad, the second is different - imo.
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Ty did run him up the track so JHN wouldn't get a run on the outside. I don't have much of a problem with that.
BobbyFord said:
The difference is JHN is as good as he’ll ever be. He will never be a Cup star.
I believe Ty has the cha-cha.
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I think both can be Cup stars. Nemechek has exceptional talent as well.
 
JHN once drove through someone, shoved them off the track, then kept slamming into them over and over.

On top of the things I've seen him pull in SLM racing. He has no room to complain about aggressive driving. As predigiously talented as he is, he's crossed the line between aggressive and dirty many, many, many times in his career.
 
Ford 222 said:
Matters to me when people make him out to be a God. Tim didn’t father any kids (that we know of) and intentionally not support them so he could race. If he did, he’s a dirtbag father too.
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I hear you.....God only knows how many lives Richmond impacted.....but to the point....This is why I don't go deep when it comes to driver's lives....You don't know what you will find. It is enough for me that they are badasses at the wheel. I find my role models elsewhere.
 
There are plenty of role models in racing, some people choose to look for the ones that aren't
 
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