What Do you Think of the New Package?

Mispeedway15

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I do have to commend NASCAR for this short track/road course package. I still think the big spoiler is a major player on 1.5+ races.

I understand we all love the idea of what low downforce was in 17-18 but the fans were sprinting away in droves because our 1.5-2 mile tracks were so bad to watch. That last year you saw 5 cars dominate the entire sport and terrible race ratings because only being able to run one line due the excessive corner entry speeds meant passing was zero. I’d like to see the HP ticked up but having the draft down the straights is important for entertainment sakes
 

StandOnIt

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They kept these latest changes under wraps pretty well. Pocrass said a few days ago that they had changed the short track package again was the first sniff I got. Then I heard Elliott talking about the low downforce package at Bristol coming up when he was being interviewed after his win. I couldn't find anything on it before the race but sure was suprised at seeing hardly a splitter and the stubby spoiler. It worked great despite a really crappy tire they could run a hundred laps easy with. I hope it works well at Martinsville, that is where they for sure knew their short track package needed work. Pretty interesting that the teams had never ran that package before but no problem when they hit the track
 

gnomesayin

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They kept these latest changes under wraps pretty well. Pocrass said a few days ago that they had changed the short track package again was the first sniff I got. Then I heard Elliott talking about the low downforce package at Bristol coming up when he was being interviewed after his win. I couldn't find anything on it before the race but sure was suprised at seeing hardly a splitter and the stubby spoiler. It worked great despite a really crappy tire they could run a hundred laps easy with. I hope it works well at Martinsville, that is where they for sure knew their short track package needed work. Pretty interesting that the teams had never ran that package before but no problem when they hit the track
It was announced in January and ran at Phoenix in March. Am I missing something?

 

Efisher131

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I thought the 2014 package was awesome. A ton of downforce and a ton of horsepower. The racing that year was fantastic. Enough power to get through the wake and enough downforce to run side by side in the corners.
 

Efisher131

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This package sucks on worn out tracks other than Darlington, and tracks less than a mile. Awesome on repaved 1.5ers. Especially on cold days.
 

StandOnIt

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The car seemed decent to me. They could run different lanes and they all weren't running single file, but between the track surface and the tire, it seemed like everybody was tip toeing around and if they ran hard and leaned on the tire, they would lose positions after they gained them.
 

Mispeedway15

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The car seemed decent to me. They could run different lanes and they all weren't running single file, but between the track surface and the tire, it seemed like everybody was tip toeing around and if they ran hard and leaned on the tire, they would lose positions after they gained them.
Yeah everyone was in full conservation mode. Might be time for a repave, that track may have gone too far on the abrasiveness
 

aunty dive

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The cars lose about 2.5 seconds per lap after 15 or so circuits.

That’s a lot and one of the consequences of that is a significant reduction in downforce.
 

StandOnIt

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Yeah everyone was in full conservation mode. Might be time for a repave, that track may have gone too far on the abrasiveness
I hate to agree with KDB about anything, but I did read his review after I wrote mine and Kyle said basically the same thing FWIW

We had good speed, you just couldn’t really push too hard. Every time I pushed too hard, it would really hurt my tires in the long run. I think that was for everybody. That last run, I was trying to keep up with those front guys and as soon as I felt like I was pushing too hard and they were inching out on me, I just gave up and decided just to run and try to make sure I didn’t slip a tire and do the best I could without pushing anything too hard.

 

StandOnIt

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The stats have been showing more passing at the mile and a half's and closer racing almost every race. Apparently to many's chagrin on this particular forum and poor Matt the vast majority of racing fans prefer that over single file strung out for the most part racing. I'm not surprised, guess there wasn't enough votes for yeah, we love strung out single file racing with hardly any passing. Go figure. :biggrin:
 
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I just wish they would get rid of the stage racing, I really hate how it breaks up the races and I have no idea why they waste 5-9 laps before going back green depending on the track when there shouldn't be anything to clean up besides needing to take a commercial break.

Jokes on them though cause I rarely watch live and I fast forward right through all of them. They should just do side by side, I still mute the commercials sound wise but at least they are getting them out there to people since that's their goal.
 

jaqua19

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Yeah I think people just like to complain. Ideally I’d like to see what we have in the Xfinity series, the high HP/low downforce led to mostly horrible racing on the 1.5-2 mile tracks. These cars were so engineered that they were carrying 200 regularly into turns which made passing almost impossible since they had to run the same lines. It’s why the pine tar option was born, it was the only chance cars could have grip at those speeds outside of the main racing line.

Ideally I think we could take this package back up to 650 as the large spoiler will allow for drafting down the straights and keep the racing interesting. I love NASCAR, always have and always will, but let’s not act like 2018 was this magical year. 5 guys dominated the field and intermediate track racing had became so bad we had to make Charlotte part road course just to make it palatable.

I know we love to be nostalgic, but at the end of the day guys it’s hard to outrun modern engineering
Not true. This is a symptom of the gen 6 car. Carrying such high speeds didn't produce bad racing. It produced questionably bad racing with the gen 6 car when they started throwing different rules packages on it.

The issue wasn't low downforce, high HP. The issue was low downforce, high HP in the gen 6 car. An issue the other cars prior didn't have. In an attempted to band aid the somewhat unsuccessful gen 6 car, NASCAR threw all these rules package changes on it to eventually create "better racing", compared to what the gen 6 rolled out with. It isn't nostalgia, it's observation and critical thinking. What we have now is gimmick racing because it's the most "passing encouraged" package we have with the gen 6 car.. especially compared to earlier packages with the gen 6 car. Take this, and add the ridiculous surveys from the fan council, and you have NASCAR promoting a more competitive package that they are making sure is here to stay...a more competitive package relative to the low downforce, high HP package, which, results, and the ridiculously biased survey says, isn't what the fans want.

All of this is blowing aside the fact that the issues with the racing started with the gen 6 car. Perhaps I'm too hard on this package. Low downforce and high HP IS the way to go for NASCAR. They unrolled a car that couldn't create good racing with that package and have adjusted the rules package to compensate for it and skewing data to justify it. The issue NASCAR has right now with it's racing is the gen 6 car. It just is what it is. People can ignore it, or gloss over it, and that's fine. But that is what clearly is going on in my eyes and we won't get better racing until the gen 7 car. I'm accepting this and am done complaining about the package.

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StandOnIt

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My opinion is don't forget or repeat the twisted sister era, in which Nascar gave the engineers free reign for aero whatever. So much as breathe on the left side and they couldn't drive them. Making a car that is very hard to handle leads to single lane racing. Make it too easy to drive and it's all car no driver. Doesn't really matter what car design when you get right down to it, they all can be manipulated thru out that scale.
The composite body because of it's ability to take abuse will make more of a difference to the racing at the cup level. But like the Xfinity cars there will still be occasional single lane parades but the car will be able to take more abuse than the glass fendered cars they are having to work with now.
 

Mispeedway15

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Not true. This is a symptom of the gen 6 car. Carrying such high speeds didn't produce bad racing. It produced questionably bad racing with the gen 6 car when they started throwing different rules packages on it.

The issue wasn't low downforce, high HP. The issue was low downforce, high HP in the gen 6 car. An issue the other cars prior didn't have. In an attempted to band aid the somewhat unsuccessful gen 6 car, NASCAR threw all these rules package changes on it to eventually create "better racing", compared to what the gen 6 rolled out with. It isn't nostalgia, it's observation and critical thinking. What we have now is gimmick racing because it's the most "passing encouraged" package we have with the gen 6 car.. especially compared to earlier packages with the gen 6 car. Take this, and add the ridiculous surveys from the fan council, and you have NASCAR promoting a more competitive package that they are making sure is here to stay...a more competitive package relative to the low downforce, high HP package, which, results, and the ridiculously biased survey says, isn't what the fans want.

All of this is blowing aside the fact that the issues with the racing started with the gen 6 car. Perhaps I'm too hard on this package. Low downforce and high HP IS the way to go for NASCAR. They unrolled a car that couldn't create good racing with that package and have adjusted the rules package to compensate for it and skewing data to justify it. The issue NASCAR has right now with it's racing is the gen 6 car. It just is what it is. People can ignore it, or gloss over it, and that's fine. But that is what clearly is going on in my eyes and we won't get better racing until the gen 7 car. I'm accepting this and am done complaining about the package.

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None of what you have said made any sense lol. I think you might not actually like STOCK CAR racing
 

LewTheShoe

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Not true. This is a symptom of the gen 6 car... The issue wasn't low downforce, high HP. The issue was low downforce, high HP in the gen 6 car. An issue the other cars prior didn't have... The issue NASCAR has right now with it's racing is the gen 6 car. It just is what it is.
Huh?

C'mon man. The character of racing didn't shift with introduction of the Gen 6 car, much less be *caused by* the Gen 6 car. You've been asserting this red herring argument about Gen 6 for years without a shred of evidence to support your claim.

The Gen 6 car is a minor body change from the Gen 5 COT, mainly front end styling cues per manufacturer. Each manufacturer's body tweaks gave the same downforce and drag as the COT. Same engine, same chassis, same suspension. Downforce and drag are "tuned" by the splitter (including radiator pan) and rear spoiler to create the "aero package du jour" plus tapered spacers since 2015 and aero drag ducts since 2019.

In fact a COT chassis raced at Martinsville last weekend. Over the years, it has worn many different splitter/spoiler combos, and since 2015 a tapered spacer. These are the factors that have affected the racing year to year... as well as the overall macro trend of ever greater engineering inputs by team personnel.

Oh, yeah, one more thing about the Gen 6 car... a digital dashboard. Very highly touted, because Gen 6 really was a nothingburger when introduced in 2013 except for the styling visuals on the front ends.
 

NASCAR Apologist

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Mr. Shoe, Gen6 was lighter and faster too, many track records in Gen6 era especially first couple of years
 

StandOnIt

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Race stats are showing numbers very similar to last years race. The fan approval rate for this year is going to be way higher I bet even though is wasn't a championship race.

1592297797645.png
 

StandOnIt

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Hard to say with just one race for the latest Super Speedway package, but it sure looked like a winner. You have to go back to 2011, the tandem drafting era, to find more lead changes.

1592943120727.png
 
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