What Do you Think of the New Package?

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I'm still not a fan of this package on cookie-cutters except for restarts (the restarts are insane and I love it). A higher horsepower, lower downforce, softer tire package is what is needed at these tracks. If this package must remain the same, I think it would be better with a much harder tire...might as well go all-in with it instead of trying to find the middle ground between pack racing and strung-out long green flag runs.

The short track and superspeedway (including Indy and Pocono) package is pretty good IMO
 
I'm honestly glad the new engine is at least a few more seasons away, as it will be nice to still have 750 HP for at least a third of the schedule.

Also not surprising that SHR looked like 2018 SHR again today.
 
All of this is good as a general concept - not just at Phoenix.

“You could follow a helluva lot closer than you could before,” Busch told NBC Sports. “You could actually get into the corner behind a guy and roll up to his left rear and try to make him a little bit loose and try to make some moves on a guy.

“I didn’t get hindered by following people into the corners as near as bad as the other (package).”
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“I hope the downforce package sold well to the fans,” Bowyer told NBC Sports. “It certainly was a lot more of a handful and a lot harder to drive than it was last year.”

Drives like that because it allows talent to play a bigger role.
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Matt D. and the Wood Bros. had a great car and raced up front.
What did they do to the car to drop it back into mid pack?
 
Phoenix was awesome BUT let’s not go too far with saying bring back all the HP and take out all the downforce.

2018 had some great races, but the low downforce that year led to absolutely terrible races at most of the 1.5-2.0 mile tracks. With high velocities any turbulence was crippling, meaning the car with clean air would dominate. It’s the closest this sport has came to F1 type parity IMO as well, 18, 4, 78 and Penske were untouchable
 
Mispeedway15 said:
2018 had some great races, but the low downforce that year led to absolutely terrible races at most of the 1.5-2.0 mile tracks. With high velocities any turbulence was crippling, meaning the car with clean air would dominate. It’s the closest this sport has came to F1 type parity IMO as well, 18, 4, 78 and Penske were untouchable
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I strongly disagree with this assertion. My opinion is quite the opposite. I will grant you that... at the beginning of 2018... a couple of teams had an advantage, a couple teams had the new rules figured out better than others. But by mid-year, others had caught up... and we were treated to many great races that featured skill-based racing above all else. What we needed was to stay the course. What we got was a knee-jerk reaction and a "racertainment package."

Clean air and track position is far more important today than it was then. Just look at two cars fighting for the lead in 2018 on fast intermediate tracks. Even on wide, multi-groove tracks, the trailing car would often choose to run the same line as the leader... choosing the dirtiest of dirty air to close up on the leader. And when he got close to the leader, he could lift the air off his spoiler, get him loose, and complete the pass. This happened dozens of times, passing based on handling and driving skill. Today, it's all about who gets a push from behind on a restart... bleh.

The brief period 2017-18 was one of Nascar's great high water marks regarding skill-based competition on 1.5 and 2-mile tracks.
 
Mispeedway15 said:
Phoenix was awesome BUT let’s not go too far with saying bring back all the HP and take out all the downforce.

2018 had some great races, but the low downforce that year led to absolutely terrible races at most of the 1.5-2.0 mile tracks. With high velocities any turbulence was crippling, meaning the car with clean air would dominate. It’s the closest this sport has came to F1 type parity IMO as well, 18, 4, 78 and Penske were untouchable
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@LewTheShoe beat me to it. But just from an additional perspective....I thought JGR, Chase, Harvick, BK and Logano lorded over last year. It looked like the usual suspects to me with exception of Bowman and Jones grabbing a win. For the most part the cream of the crop continued to reign supreme imo.

13 different race winners in 2019, 12 different race winners in 2018, 15 different race winners in 2017. Every SHR driver in 2018 had a race win, Chase had 3 wins. Larson had 4 wins in 2017, Jimmie had 3, Blaney got his 1st, Newman got one, Kahne got one. That's plenty of parity enough for me to preserve the quality of racing with actual throttle play back-end loose conditions and speed drop off from straightaway to the center.

I would snap trade this package for 2017/2018 and not think twice about it.
 
I think many have forgotten what got us here. It was races like last weekend, not a contest of single file aero racing. Now that Goodyear has decided to provide a tire with fall off, and teams have agreed to keep their mouths shut about bad mouthing the tire, I sense a return to genuine old school pushing and shoving neck and neck Nascar racing.
 
Cut off races are short tracks.

New short track rules package earned solid reviews at Phoenix Raceway | Motorsports on NBC

 
LewTheShoe said:
I strongly disagree with this assertion. My opinion is quite the opposite. I will grant you that... at the beginning of 2018... a couple of teams had an advantage, a couple teams had the new rules figured out better than others. But by mid-year, others had caught up... and we were treated to many great races that featured skill-based racing above all else. What we needed was to stay the course. What we got was a knee-jerk reaction and a "racertainment package."

Clean air and track position is far more important today than it was then. Just look at two cars fighting for the lead in 2018 on fast intermediate tracks. Even on wide, multi-groove tracks, the trailing car would often choose to run the same line as the leader... choosing the dirtiest of dirty air to close up on the leader. And when he got close to the leader, he could lift the air off his spoiler, get him loose, and complete the pass. This happened dozens of times, passing based on handling and driving skill. Today, it's all about who gets a push from behind on a restart... bleh.

The brief period 2017-18 was one of Nascar's great high water marks regarding skill-based competition on 1.5 and 2-mile tracks.
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Absolutely wrong.

In 2018 Kyle Larson had Darlington won, guy dominated. A shaky pit stop left him restarting behind Brad, and dirty air left him crippled giving the win to BK.

Cars had to run the same line because of the low downforce and high speeds then. Because of the speeds you were carrying into the corner you couldn’t go high or you would lose tons of time or even hit the wall. This limited passing drastically.

I liked the low downforce days of 2017-2018, but just look at either ours or Jeff Gluck’s race ratings. 1.5 and 2 mile tracks received HORRIBLE scores overall. Heck Charlotte literally had to build a new addition to the track because the racing had become so vanilla.

The faster you go and the less grip you have, the less options you have on the track on where you run
 
I think the over all package is pretty good. The steering wheels look pretty comfortable but the seats could use maybe a tad more cushion. That being said the sturdiness of the chassis looks pretty strong and the foot pedals look very nice...plus the clearness and detail of the monitors and the sound coming out of the speakers are very good. :)
 
Nitro Dude said:
I think the over all package is pretty good. The steering wheels look pretty comfortable but the seats could use maybe a tad more cushion. That being said the sturdiness of the chassis looks pretty strong and the foot pedals look very nice...plus the clearness and detail of the monitors and the sound coming out of the speakers are very good. :)
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Hamlin won barefoot. Earnhardt was driving with one hand. I wonder if they all will have that same setup this weekend?
 
Nitro Dude said:
I think the over all package is pretty good. The steering wheels look pretty comfortable but the seats could use maybe a tad more cushion. That being said the sturdiness of the chassis looks pretty strong and the foot pedals look very nice...plus the clearness and detail of the monitors and the sound coming out of the speakers are very good. :)
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A couple of decorative pillows would be nice.
 
Mispeedway15 said:
Absolutely wrong.

In 2018 Kyle Larson had Darlington won, guy dominated. A shaky pit stop left him restarting behind Brad, and dirty air left him crippled giving the win to BK.

Cars had to run the same line because of the low downforce and high speeds then. Because of the speeds you were carrying into the corner you couldn’t go high or you would lose tons of time or even hit the wall. This limited passing drastically.

I liked the low downforce days of 2017-2018, but just look at either ours or Jeff Gluck’s race ratings. 1.5 and 2 mile tracks received HORRIBLE scores overall. Heck Charlotte literally had to build a new addition to the track because the racing had become so vanilla.

The faster you go and the less grip you have, the less options you have on the track on where you run
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I think the 2 package system they have now is as good as it gets with this gen car
 
StandOnIt said:
3rd place out of the last 5 in Gluck's straw pole
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I don't put a lot of faith in polls like these because a lot of fans "including myself" has made their decision on the quality of a race depending on how their driver did in that race. A really popular driver with a large fan base can skew the results dramatically. It's not uncommon in race threads to see fans complaining throughout the whole thread about the race being terrible for every reason they could possibly think of because their driver was having a bad race, and then at the end their driver came back and won...then they would go on the rate the race thread and give the race a 10. I don't think I have ever seen a fan rate the race a one... if their driver won.:)
 
More often than not Gluck's much larger pole is close to ToyYoda's pole here at R-F. Some find it interesting to see how it goes so I post it. For instance in 2018 Kyle Busch led 377 laps out of 400 and parts of the race was over 14 seconds ahead of second for most of the race. Good for him but it was really boring and the stats @ 38 percent thought it was a good race reflect that. He has plenty of fans. Martin Truex in 2016 led 392 of 400 laps and it has the second lowest rating. Racing fans like close racing for the most part, doesn't matter who wins it.
 
Turtle84 said:
the difference between glued and not glued.
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I remember watching this race and was so excited (not because Carl won), but because the racing was like it was in 2007. I thought they fixed the racing. They didn't

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Yeah I think people just like to complain. Ideally I’d like to see what we have in the Xfinity series, the high HP/low downforce led to mostly horrible racing on the 1.5-2 mile tracks. These cars were so engineered that they were carrying 200 regularly into turns which made passing almost impossible since they had to run the same lines. It’s why the pine tar option was born, it was the only chance cars could have grip at those speeds outside of the main racing line.

Ideally I think we could take this package back up to 650 as the large spoiler will allow for drafting down the straights and keep the racing interesting. I love NASCAR, always have and always will, but let’s not act like 2018 was this magical year. 5 guys dominated the field and intermediate track racing had became so bad we had to make Charlotte part road course just to make it palatable.

I know we love to be nostalgic, but at the end of the day guys it’s hard to outrun modern engineering
 
Happens all the time, not from the original "back when racing was good" poster of course, that their driver wins a close race, drives his ass off, and from then on, it's that car, or that race, or that era that IS the best racing. A good example is the clip below, many Era's of racing represented and depending on the fan, their era they will say it was the best. :idunno: 2015 Edwards, 70's Pearson, Regan Smith holding off Edwards in 2011, Cale holding off Pearson back in 68 when real men drove real stock cars, Waltrip beating Petty in 78 with a sliding battle for the win, voted #5 for top Darlington finishes, in 65, Cale went over the guardrail the last lap battling Ned Jarrett who took the win #4, in 97 Gordon beat door slamming Burton for a million bucks on the last lap, in 03, Craven and Kurt in twisted sister cars banging all the way to the line for #2 most popular Darlington, and #1 when Bill Elliott was the first driver to win 1 million dollars.

 
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