What Do you Think of the New Package?

Every production car manufacturer now is offering performance cars with more horsepower than we’ve seen in quite some time. Variable cam timing, multiple cams, turbos, twin turbos, superchargers...and NASCAR decides we need less horsepower.
:idunno:
 
wi_racefan said:
IMO you have better racing when you have significant off throttle time. Generally reducing horsepower is not the way to accomplish that.

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...and the ability to run multiple lines on the track without the need for groove glue...the ability to pass without the negative effects of aero dependency...
 
Texas by gawd :mad:.It looks like People Are Strange has been at work here :biggrin:
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AD doesn't check out on old tires 3 times in a row at an intermediate, if superior cars are able to slice through the field. Clean air and track position was everything.

Passing Wonderland it was not.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Huh?

C'mon man. The character of racing didn't shift with introduction of the Gen 6 car, much less be *caused by* the Gen 6 car. You've been asserting this red herring argument about Gen 6 for years without a shred of evidence to support your claim.

The Gen 6 car is a minor body change from the Gen 5 COT, mainly front end styling cues per manufacturer. Each manufacturer's body tweaks gave the same downforce and drag as the COT. Same engine, same chassis, same suspension. Downforce and drag are "tuned" by the splitter (including radiator pan) and rear spoiler to create the "aero package du jour" plus tapered spacers since 2015 and aero drag ducts since 2019.

In fact a COT chassis raced at Martinsville last weekend. Over the years, it has worn many different splitter/spoiler combos, and since 2015 a tapered spacer. These are the factors that have affected the racing year to year... as well as the overall macro trend of ever greater engineering inputs by team personnel.

Oh, yeah, one more thing about the Gen 6 car... a digital dashboard. Very highly touted, because Gen 6 really was a nothingburger when introduced in 2013 except for the styling visuals on the front ends.
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A mere observation is all the evidence I feel I need. Some things don't need to be backed up numbers. There's an observable difference in racing and I feel no need to justify it with context based data. You are entitled to disagree with me. If that terrible terrible survey for the fan council doesn't get you reflecting and your gears turning, then we have totally different analytical approaches to this situation. That's fine. In that case, I suggest either block me, or preferably, let me have my opinion and voice it, as you have yours.

Neither of us are budging on this one and to be honest, I'd hate for the only interactions we have on here to be disagreements Lew, cause I think you're a great poster.

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BobbyFord said:
Top drivers continue to talk about the terrible aero situation. When will NASCAR listen?
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When skewed data and confirmation bias seize to exist. That survey lol

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gnomesayin said:
Keselowski makes it clear where he stands.

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Yeah, Brad is happy that 2020 rules for *short tracks* (750 HP with low downforce) have dramatically improved the quality of racing compared to what we had last year. Loudon was genuine big boy racing.

At the same time, Brad laments that high downforce and flaccid engines at *bigger tracks* (most of the schedule) has lowered the bar on driving skill... and this has lowered the market value of elite drivers. As he said yesterday to Bob Pockrass...
 
I don't see these ride buying drivers Brad is talking about in cup. Where and who are they? Seems he is always poor mouthing something. Maybe Penske is thinking about bringing that Super car driver to cup. He probably would work a hell of a lot cheaper with a better attitude.
 
Who knows what changes they are going to make since they are holding the car over for another year instead of the new car. They have kinda boxed themselves in with the 550 motor they say they are going to use with the new car.
 
I still don't understand why they're running the 550 motor/high downforce package at Darlington, Homestead, and Atlanta. If they're really going to stick with the 550 motor, I would like for them to at least try the low downforce with it and see what happens on the 1.5 miles tracks.
 
Ernie_Irvan#4 said:
I still don't understand why they're running the 550 motor/high downforce package at Darlington, Homestead, and Atlanta. If they're really going to stick with the 550 motor, I would like for them to at least try the low downforce with it and see what happens on the 1.5 miles tracks.
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I wouldn't be surprised if they do try it, but the problem is they have rules in place that say they can't make any big changes to the car without a long lead time to give the teams time. Personally, New Hampshire came about because of a lot of factors. It was cooler so they had better grip, they had a decent tire for once, they got the PJ-1 in the right places for a change and that opened up the track for passing. The curve ball of no practice or qualifying created it own set of circumstances. A couple of three teams hit on the setup, more luck than skill with the weather temps and the PJ-1. That created more cautions and restarts for the ones that didn't hit which is always good to keep the single file parade that track produces to a minimum. That did show up the last 50 laps. Many more short tracks left to use that package and I hope they get all of those factors to work together, Tires, track prep, and no practice.
 
drivers and fans complementing higher horsepower?

NASCAR is sure to announce a full season of low horsepower and rock hard tire combo here soon.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
drivers and fans complementing higher horsepower?

NASCAR is sure to announce a full season of low horsepower and rock hard tire combo here soon.
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A good way around that would be to go to the low d/f with the 550. Goodyear can't or won't build a decent tire for some reason.
 
I think they are hell-bent on 550 HP engines for NexGen, in the interest of costs and it supposedly being the most appealing option to prospective OEMs. I don’t see them wavering on that. In conjunction with less downforce and less sideforce that could work. The quarter panels on the test cars they’ve run are already substantially smaller than the Gen-6 so that’s a start.
 
Ernie_Irvan#4 said:
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This certainly stood out:

“The 750 package is a lot of fun,” Logano said. “There’s a lot more that the crew chief and the driver can really add to everything. It’s not a chaos restart at the end and something crazy happens that is unexpected. You’re not going to get that at 750.

“The good drivers and good race teams are going to win. That’s the bottom line. They’re challenging to drive. You’ve got to use both feet. You go to Kansas (with the 550-horsepower package) and all you’ve got to use is the right foot, so (the 750 package) gives a driver more tools to work with. You’ve got to think things through more. It’s not balls to the wall all day long, pushing as hard as you can on the repave and not paying a penalty.

“You come to these short tracks and there’s a penalty for riding the brake. There’s a penalty for pushing too hard on a short run compared to a long run. You’ve got to think more.”
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FLRacingFan said:
I think they are hell-bent on 550 HP engines for NexGen, in the interest of costs and it supposedly being the most appealing option to prospective OEMs. I don’t see them wavering on that. In conjunction with less downforce and less sideforce that could work. The quarter panels on the test cars they’ve run are already substantially smaller than the Gen-6 so that’s a start.
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They are getting a wider and taller tire, a lighter car, a more balanced car with the transaxle out back along with IRS in the rear. I have no idea how it will turn out.
 
FLRacingFan said:
This certainly stood out:
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Lets bring back the single file racing where Logano and a handful of others have all of the advantages and the others have even less of a chance. I see his point. Logano finished 35th at Kansas. He got beat by Dillion and Reddick the week before.
 
gnomesayin said:
I like racing where the most skilled are at an inherent advantage.

What about the show?

That is the show.
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Racing-Forums experts will tell you that Tony Stewart has no idea what he’s talking about
www.springfieldnewssun.com

Stewart: We’re racing, not passing

Rubbin’ is racing, the saying goes. Passing?Not according to Tony Stewart.The three-time NASCAR Sprint Cup champion bristled when asked what NASCAR and the Indianapolis Motor Speedway could do to increase passing.
www.springfieldnewssun.com www.springfieldnewssun.com
 
gnomesayin said:
I like racing where the most skilled are at an inherent advantage.

What about the show?

That is the show.
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Well said. Short and sweet.

I've been saying that same thing since May 2018, when this high downforce/high drag/neutered horsepower package got it's first "trial run" in the all star race.
 
13 of those lead changes (passing) was Kez and Hamlin. I have no idea how many passes for the lead that was Hamlin or Keselowski passing somebody else besides each other. :biggrin: Plenty though.
 
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