What exactly was better about NASCAR back in the day, and why was that way better?

The race is the thing, it's why we watch. We now have a race, then stop. Then we have another race, then we stop. Then we have a last race, then we stop. A race is supposed to be, start the race, and the first one to cover the distance, was the winner. The cars had to use all stock parts. You could modify the parts any way you wanted, but they had to be stock parts. That is one reason reliability is no longer a factor in deciding the winner. Everything today has been tested and designed to be as efficient as possible. So everybody uses the same stuff, because they don't have to use OEM parts. Watching Pearson, and Petty, was great. Sure, there was a three, or four year period, where almost nobody else won. But a driver that did beat them was a great thing to see. Cars were not so delicate, they could take some abuse, and still have a good chance to win. Bias ply tires were great, because drivers had to know when to save their tires, and when to use them up. Drivers drove by the seat of their pants. They still do today, but not nearly as much. In my opinion the racing started going downhill when the Dodge Daytona came into being. Suddenly if you didn't have one, you couldn't win. I have pictures of a whole field of cars, that is made up of Dodge Daytonas. They finally had to outlaw them. They should have picked a larger production amount, because it is still argued if they actually made that many of them. After that, manufacturers started pulling back their support. There were so many differences in equipment, and driving styles, and tracks, that you never knew who would win, with the exception of the Petty, and Pearson show years. BF has tried to bring back the idea that anyone can win, but he is trying to do it the wrong way. Parity is not the answer, variety is the answer. Does the championship have to be decided at the last race of the year? Would you stop watching if the championship was won five weeks before the season ended? Neither would I. It's because the race is the thing, it's why we watch. As much as I dont like the segment thing, I will still be watching, that's because I never know what is going to happen.
 
I liked the old driver development better too. It was much more integrated with the local and regional Saturday night tracks.

Seeing guys like Mark Martin, Dick Trickle, Harry Gant, Morgan Shepard, Alan Kulwicki, Rusty Wallace and others racing there way up to the Winston Cup was a great thing.

I cant blame todays young guns with todays drivers development. They didn't make the rules, and they have to do what they do, just like the old timers did what they had to do, who could blame them.
The world has just changed, and it alot of it is unavoidable.
But I am still thankful I got to see the old way. It was a great show.

There were so many second page stories. Martin, Earnhardt, Kulwicki, and others who had an incredible history or story before they made it to Winston Cup. It was a longer journey than the current one. Lot more interesting stories in my opinion.
 
Obviously I am biased. It was easier to only see the best things. Barney Hall was great, just about a Saint imo. But most of the Winston Cup I saw in the 70s was on the MRN radio. I believed it was great and still do, because they told me it was great.
 
LewTheShoe said:
The vibe around here has been brutally negative this off-season and I am genuinely interested to understand why. So explain to me like I'm a newbie what was better about Nascar 20 or 30 or 50 years ago, in your opinion. Why was that better? And is it something that Nascar could change if it wanted to, or natural evolution beyond the sport's ability to control?

One thing I liked about the 1970s and 80s is that the bodywork was tougher and more able to withstand light contact without loss of performance. A little beating and banging, or lightly brushing the wall was no big deal. I believe we could go back in that direction and racing would be better if we did.

Another thing I liked about the early days of Nascar was that it was more of a cottage industry, with many small teams competing and less domination by the big guys. It created more diversity and innovation. But that was always destined to change IMO. A job worth doing is worth doing well. Survival of the fittest is a natural evolution that cannot be thwarted. We should complain about things that can be controlled, and accept those that can't, IMO.
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just youtube a 90s race.
 
Bowtie3 said:
The best part about the old days was lack of Internet. As much as i like it here, social media and message boards/forums are a problem. People are afraid have their own thoughts anymore. While some still do think on their own, most are really just sheep who boo, cheer and complain to follow the crowd. Back then, if they didn't like it, they changed the channel. Now if people don't like it, they just log on and gripe about it. Back in the day, they just boo'ed the driver they hated and cheered the driver they loved.
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A scathing indictment of the great unwashed indeed! If people are dumb enough to cede their thinking to other people then they get what they deserve.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
A scathing indictment of the great unwashed indeed! If people are dumb enough to cede their thinking to other people then they get what they deserve.
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I agree completely. It's not just with nascar either, any sport or form of entertainment is the same way now. If they don't like it, they don't just change the channel, they log on and gripe. It's sad.
 
Bowtie3 said:
I agree completely. It's not just with nascar either, any sport or form of entertainment is the same way now. If they don't like it, they don't just change the channel, they log on and gripe. It's sad.
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The best way for me to watch a race is to DVR it and give chance to see what type of event will be and if it is a good one you can skip the commercials and enjoy the race. If it is a bad event full of phony cautions and everyone getting back on the lead lap you can make liberal used of the FF button and see all you need to see in short order. IDK how people hole up for hours on end on a beautiful Saturday evening or Sunday afternoon week after week after week watching Nascar from the pre-race show to the end of the interviews. I am not being critical of those that do as it isn't for me to tell someone what they should or shouldn't like but I truly don't understand being cooped up inside a basement or family room on a nice day.
 
Thanks to all for the walk down memory lane as it brought back many happy reflections of the way Nascar used to be. It was mentioned already and in the past I have brought the subject of cars regularly overheating and engines regularly expiring. Those issues always kept the fan on the edge of their seat as the problem seemed indiscriminate as no team was exempt. In this case the teams and Nascar were really victims of their own success as by improving quality they actually took out a wildcard that kept you watching. About a close as we get to it is today with the 4 and 78 teams as between drivers and crews they often screw up for various reasons.
 
Well, I would have said my piece but 99% of you already did for me. :D

There's just something natural about letting a race play its course. I remember watching races being in the edge of my seat when Gordon would be on the verge of going a lap down and I would just down right pray for a caution..which was premium in those days and wishing he'd be save by the bell just in time.

These days that drama is not part of the racing anymore. If you go a lap down..two laps down you just shrug it off because you know a caution is going to be thrown at certain stretches.
 
Snappy D said:
It's from NASCAR Thunder 04 for PS2, my fav racing game ever, that game had EVERYTHING. Every little detail. (F1 2010 is a close second)
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Wow, I was way off. Though Thunder was a great game, too.
 
Someone touched on it earlier, but I really enjoyed the broadcasts back when I was a kid watching. In fact I was bored yesterday and watched a bit of the 1994 Daytona 500. I wish there more TV announcers like Ken Squier and Ned Jarrett. I also liked Bob Jenkins and BP on ESPN, they just gave each race a big fight feel. The Fox guys would be okay with Mike, Jeff and Larry in the both. As for NBC, Rick Allen seems like an okay guy but I don't care much for his style.
 
Reck said:
Well, I would have said my piece but 99% of you already did for me. :D

There's just something natural about letting a race play its course. I remember watching races being in the edge of my seat when Gordon would be on the verge of going a lap down and I would just down right pray for a caution..which was premium in those days and wishing he'd be save by the bell just in time.

These days that drama is not part of the racing anymore. If you go a lap down..two laps down you just shrug it off because you know a caution is going to be thrown at certain stretches.
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When you compare the last Homestead race with the last Rolex 24,there's a huge difference in the 2 series.
 
Snappy D said:
I went to the Rolex 24 this year, coolest racing experience ever! The Racing was so bad ass, my first time at a Rolex, mind blown.
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2016 Also produced amazing results.

The corvettes coming to the line for the win. I believe it is the closest finish, if not one of the closest finish in that series's history. A pretty neat feat considering it is a 24 hour race marathon.
 
Greg said:
Obviously I am biased. It was easier to only see the best things. Barney Hall was great, just about a Saint imo. But most of the Winston Cup I saw in the 70s was on the MRN radio. I believed it was great and still do, because they told me it was great.
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Yep, I am right there with you. I also have vivid memories of Eli Gold.
Wish I saved a nickel for every time I did an oil
change on my car while listening to those two on MRN.

Only was it rare to see a snipet of a race on Wide World of Sports.
Things changed though in 1979.
 
Bowtie3 said:
One thing I do really miss from my early days as a fan, and I think this is another major problem, the broadcast. No matter if it the race was on ESPN, TNN or any other, it was a good broadcast. Bob Jenkins, Benny Parsons, Ned Jarrett, Dr. Jerry Punch and John Kernan were phenomenal. So was Mike Joy, Neil Bonnett and Buddy Baker. They could make the race enjoyable for a 30 year fan or a first timer. The broadcast teams today just don't have that. Watching old races on YouTube makes me miss them more. At least MRN is still good.
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I agree about the TV broadcasts, but I cannot stand MRN. Terrible. However, the PRN broadcasts are exceptional. I have no interest in Bagley screaming "Five wide for 26th!" ....but then again, he is the NMPA Broadcaster of the Year--voted on industry insiders who likely don't have to listen to him.
 
Another thing that was better "back in the day" was the marketing. One example, as a kid, I remember going to the grocery store with my mom and being exposed to NASCAR everywhere. I would go to the toy section, and there would be 20 different NASCAR diecasts to choose from. I would go to the cereal aisle and there would be Terry Labonte and Jeff Gordon on the Frosted Mini Wheats box, and Dale Earnhardt on the Wheaties box. I would go to the clothing section and there would be NASCAR hats and t-shirts. I would go to the office supply section and there would be NASCAR Trapper Keepers and bookbags.

Nowadays, you won't find any of that stuff. Even toy stores and places like Target, you're lucky to find two or three Nascar diecasts in the toy car aisle. No wonder they are having such a difficult time attracting kids to the sport these days.
 
2 Sweet said:
Another thing that was better "back in the day" was the marketing. One example, as a kid, I remember going to the grocery store with my mom and being exposed to NASCAR everywhere. I would go to the toy section, and there would be 20 different NASCAR diecasts to choose from. I would go to the cereal aisle and there would be Terry Labonte and Jeff Gordon on the Frosted Mini Wheats box, and Dale Earnhardt on the Wheaties box. I would go to the clothing section and there would be NASCAR hats and t-shirts. I would go to the office supply section and there would be NASCAR Trapper Keepers and bookbags.

Nowadays, you won't find any of that stuff. Even toy stores and places like Target, you're lucky to find two or three Nascar diecasts in the toy car aisle. No wonder they are having such a difficult time attracting kids to the sport these days.
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I've also really noticed a drop-off in the merchandise. I used to buy Harvick/general NASCAR shirts at Walmart in the last decade. About four years ago, I noticed they were no longer carrying them at all, other than a few random Junior items. This is obviously the result of NASCAR dropping off the cliff rather than the cause I would say, but can't help with getting new fans when you can't easily buy something to support a new favorite driver.
 
2 Sweet said:
Another thing that was better "back in the day" was the marketing. One example, as a kid, I remember going to the grocery store with my mom and being exposed to NASCAR everywhere. I would go to the toy section, and there would be 20 different NASCAR diecasts to choose from. I would go to the cereal aisle and there would be Terry Labonte and Jeff Gordon on the Frosted Mini Wheats box, and Dale Earnhardt on the Wheaties box. I would go to the clothing section and there would be NASCAR hats and t-shirts. I would go to the office supply section and there would be NASCAR Trapper Keepers and bookbags.

Nowadays, you won't find any of that stuff. Even toy stores and places like Target, you're lucky to find two or three Nascar diecasts in the toy car aisle. No wonder they are having such a difficult time attracting kids to the sport these days.
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I've noticed that too. My son is nine. He's just getting into Nascar. I was finally able to find him a Chase Elliot 1/6th scale. I haven't found him a tshirt or anything else yet. I know I can online I just haven't yet.
 
Revman said:
I agree about the TV broadcasts, but I cannot stand MRN. Terrible. However, the PRN broadcasts are exceptional. I have no interest in Bagley screaming "Five wide for 26th!" ....but then again, he is the NMPA Broadcaster of the Year--voted on industry insiders who likely don't have to listen to him.
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I'll admit that it's not as good since we lost Barney Hall but I still love listening on the radio. PRN isn't bad either.
 
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I'll admit this thread does have the aura of Member Berries, but the bottom line is that NASCAR was better "back in the day," and anyone not wearing rose-colored glasses or too young to remember should agree...........or maybe I'm becoming an old codger at 31.
 
2 Sweet said:
Another thing that was better "back in the day" was the marketing. One example, as a kid, I remember going to the grocery store with my mom and being exposed to NASCAR everywhere. I would go to the toy section, and there would be 20 different NASCAR diecasts to choose from. I would go to the cereal aisle and there would be Terry Labonte and Jeff Gordon on the Frosted Mini Wheats box, and Dale Earnhardt on the Wheaties box. I would go to the clothing section and there would be NASCAR hats and t-shirts. I would go to the office supply section and there would be NASCAR Trapper Keepers and bookbags.

Nowadays, you won't find any of that stuff. Even toy stores and places like Target, you're lucky to find two or three Nascar diecasts in the toy car aisle. No wonder they are having such a difficult time attracting kids to the sport these days.
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Nascar used to have a presence in many places it no longer does. In my area it is not uncommon for churches to host super bowl parties as many of the newer buildings have state of the art facilities and are a genuine part of the community. Some used to have get togethers for the Daytona 500 but those are things of the past now.

There were little stores selling Nascar merchandise, pools, games, signs, car tags, decals, shirts, caps and a whole bunch more that no longer exists. In my area if you stop into a tavern on a Sunday afternoon they will be showing baseball games, golf, hoops and other sports but no Nascar. You can get one of the smaller sets turned to Nascar providing it wasn't already showing something that was being watched. When I think back to it I am shocked as Nascar generated a lot of interest and dollars 10-15 years ago but now people in my area are more interested in lawn darts.
 
Matthew2470 said:
Nostalgia is a hell of a drug.
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With Nascar the drug is of the downer variety as so many people can look back with fondness but are not crazy about today. I know I can look back on Football and Hockey with fondness but I am also pumped up for the product they serve today even though it is different. Where most stick and ball sports evolved Nascar just acted with arrogance and buffoonery and took something that was once great and turned it into a lukewarm twice used bathwater.
 
2 Sweet said:
Another thing that was better "back in the day" was the marketing. One example, as a kid, I remember going to the grocery store with my mom and being exposed to NASCAR everywhere. I would go to the toy section, and there would be 20 different NASCAR diecasts to choose from. I would go to the cereal aisle and there would be Terry Labonte and Jeff Gordon on the Frosted Mini Wheats box, and Dale Earnhardt on the Wheaties box. I would go to the clothing section and there would be NASCAR hats and t-shirts. I would go to the office supply section and there would be NASCAR Trapper Keepers and bookbags.

Nowadays, you won't find any of that stuff. Even toy stores and places like Target, you're lucky to find two or three Nascar diecasts in the toy car aisle. No wonder they are having such a difficult time attracting kids to the sport these days.
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When I was a kid in the '80s you could get about 8-10 cars in 1/64 dicast. The 43, 3, digard 88, Cale's Valvoline 27, Kyle Petty's 7-Eleven Pontiac, Wood Bros 21 when Baker drove it, DW's 11, Bill's 9 Ford. Then Racing Champions came along and you could have the full field if wanted.

The bottom line is simple. Big Bill and Bill Jr built the perfect sport. There weren't many complaints from fans or competitors other than the expected Ford vs. GM vs Dodge stuff. Brian has managed to put the sport on life support through his knee overreactions and his zeal to put his own mark on NASCAR.
 
Robert J Sublett said:
When I was a kid in the '80s you could get about 8-10 cars in 1/64 dicast. The 43, 3, digard 88, Cale's Valvoline 27, Kyle Petty's 7-Eleven Pontiac, Wood Bros 21 when Baker drove it, DW's 11, Bill's 9 Ford. Then Racing Champions came along and you could have the full field if wanted.

The bottom line is simple. Big Bill and Bill Jr built the perfect sport. There weren't many complaints from fans or competitors other than the expected Ford vs. GM vs Dodge stuff. Brian has managed to put the sport on life support through his knee overreactions and his zeal to put his own mark on NASCAR.
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Yep. God Bless Racing Champions. Hell, in the 90s you could get any Cup driver you wanted, and almost any Busch Series or SuperTrucks driver as well. Even guys like Glenn Allen Jr and Bryan Reffner. I even got a Frank Kimmel ARCA car one time. And this was at a Meijer grocery store, not even a collectibles store.

The exposure back then was awesome.
 
kkfan91 said:
Being 26 the earliest season I really have memories of is 1997. That said I've never been a complainer, I like NASCAR now as much if not even more then I did then. But I'm a roll with the punches kind of person, I adapt well to change. Most people are not like that.
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Same here my friend.
 
@Snappy D I admire someone who lurks for a while to get the lay of the land before posting. When you broke your silence, you sure got your money's worth.

Welcome to the active ranks.
 
Bowtie3 said:
One thing I do really miss from my early days as a fan, and I think this is another major problem, the broadcast. No matter if it the race was on ESPN, TNN or any other, it was a good broadcast. Bob Jenkins, Benny Parsons, Ned Jarrett, Dr. Jerry Punch and John Kernan were phenomenal. So was Mike Joy, Neil Bonnett and Buddy Baker. They could make the race enjoyable for a 30 year fan or a first timer. The broadcast teams today just don't have that. Watching old races on YouTube makes me miss them more. At least MRN is still good.
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See, I don't think the overall broadcasts were as good in the 90s. I loved Bob, Ned and Benny and I loved Eli Gold on TNN, but I think people still love these for nostalgia.

Ken Squier was getting bad in his later years. One race, the dude talked about Ernie Irvan making passes on the track when he was in a hospital. One race, Dale Earnhardt started 20-something so, at the drop of the green flag, CBS aired nothing but Dale Earnhardt until he ended up crashing. Everything about TBS was terrible except for that epic Edd Kalehoff music. TNN was great because they had so much motorsports coverage.

But when FOX came along in 2001, they raised the bar so high. They introduced the horizontal graphics that didn't obstruct the screen space. I was blown away watching the 2001 Daytona 500. The CBS and TNN telecasts, and even the almighty ESPN broadcasts of the 90s, looked like amateur productions compared to what FOX brought in 2001. And NBC, the trio of Allen Bestwick/Wally Dallenbach/Benny Parsons was my favorite trio. Loved the Bob/Ned/BP trio on ESPN and the Ralph Sheheen/Kyle Petty/Wally Dallenbach trio on TNT as well.



ESPN was pure **** when they came back in 2007.

I love FOX's broadcasts now, especially with Jeff Gordon in the booth. NBC has a beautiful graphics package and amazing production and camera work when they're not at commercial. And I'm just not a big fan of Jeff Burton in the booth, but that's just my irrelevant opinion.
 
Revman said:
Yeah, I know because you are a fan of good racing which you will know when you see it.

Yeah, self-described so you are beating a dead horse...but that isn't the reason I liked that race. It's fascinating to me that they have these guys in such a box, and the 78 was so superior. I appreciate masterful work, and that was it if I ever saw it. Sorry to say, but I doubt you will be getting any letters of apology from Cole and the crew anytime soon. On this topic, I have repeatedly expressed my respect for Harvick's 2014. They had 3 tenths on the field from the pre-Christmas test to Homestead. Freaking amazing. An epic season really.

The lack of passing had nothing to do with the 600. The 78 had 3-4 tenths in two laps after the green generally speaking. That tape is old, and applies to many races--but not this one. If somebody could have been quick enough, we've got another story, but nobody was even close, and you know that.

Interesting that you would make your worn out fanboy assertion, and mention Harvick as an example of a guy who would be hated with such a display. What the hell was 2014? Didn't think he took too much crap really.
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I watch sporting events to be entertained. Nobody enjoys watching one car dominate like that. It's the equivalent of watching a football game where the score is 62-7. Boring.

The lack of passing in the 600 had to do with it being a night race. EVERY night race in NASCAR, one driver dominates an entire run. Harvick would've done that 10 times last year if his crew didn't routinely cost him 10-20 spots in the pits. The 600 wasn't anything special at all, just a typical boring NASCAR night race at one of the Brobs.
 
Robert J Sublett said:
When I was a kid in the '80s you could get about 8-10 cars in 1/64 dicast. The 43, 3, digard 88, Cale's Valvoline 27, Kyle Petty's 7-Eleven Pontiac, Wood Bros 21 when Baker drove it, DW's 11, Bill's 9 Ford. Then Racing Champions came along and you could have the full field if wanted.

The bottom line is simple. Big Bill and Bill Jr built the perfect sport. There weren't many complaints from fans or competitors other than the expected Ford vs. GM vs Dodge stuff. Brian has managed to put the sport on life support through his knee overreactions and his zeal to put his own mark on NASCAR.
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I agree with both of these points. I get lost on Ebay for hours deciding if I should buy the old Winston No Bull 5 Posters, those were bad ass.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
@Snappy D I admire someone who lurks for a while to get the lay of the land before posting. When you broke your silence, you sure got your money's worth.

Welcome to the active ranks.
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ha ha thanks. Just trying to contribute in a positively manner, I tried posting on Reddit but it seems everyone is 1.) Angry or 2.) young and trying to make older fans look stupid. Glad I found this place, seems like everyone just wants to talk racing here.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
See, I don't think the overall broadcasts were as good in the 90s. I loved Bob, Ned and Benny and I loved Eli Gold on TNN, but I think people still love these for nostalgia.

Ken Squier was getting bad in his later years. One race, the dude talked about Ernie Irvan making passes on the track when he was in a hospital. One race, Dale Earnhardt started 20-something so, at the drop of the green flag, CBS aired nothing but Dale Earnhardt until he ended up crashing. Everything about TBS was terrible except for that epic Edd Kalehoff music. TNN was great because they had so much motorsports coverage.

But when FOX came along in 2001, they raised the bar so high. They introduced the horizontal graphics that didn't obstruct the screen space. I was blown away watching the 2001 Daytona 500. The CBS and TNN telecasts, and even the almighty ESPN broadcasts of the 90s, looked like amateur productions compared to what FOX brought in 2001. And NBC, the trio of Allen Bestwick/Wally Dallenbach/Benny Parsons was my favorite trio. Loved the Bob/Ned/BP trio on ESPN and the Ralph Sheheen/Kyle Petty/Wally Dallenbach trio on TNT as well.



ESPN was pure sh!t when they came back in 2007.

I love FOX's broadcasts now, especially with Jeff Gordon in the booth. NBC has a beautiful graphics package and amazing production and camera work when they're not at commercial. And I'm just not a big fan of Jeff Burton in the booth, but that's just my irrelevant opinion.
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I have noticed from this and other posts that graphics in NASCAR broadcasts are important to you and I have no issue with that at all. However graphics are just an annoyance to me and take up space on the screen. I don't give a hoot about what place Ricky Stenhouse is in or how many seconds he is in front of Aric Almirola. I don't give a crap about seeing how many seconds the first place car is in front of the third place car as it isn't important to me.

Give me the expert analysis of Ned, the play by play of Bob and everyman commentary of Benny in standard definition any day over the bloated and self serving crap today. How many of you remember hearing Ned's stop watch when it was quiet in the booth? How about the wonderful overhead shots that immediately showed you where you car was and how it was handling? Do you remember the side cam and other worthless camera angles? Of course you don't as ESPN and other broadcasters didn't do stupid **** like that back then. Stick and ball sports have adapted and NASCAR has suffered dumbass attack upon dumbass attacks.
 
aunty dive said:
I enjoyed it immensely.

Back in the effing day, such things were a regular occurrence. I enjoyed them then as well.
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Count me in as one that does mind if one car is spanking the rest of the field provided it is not overwhelmingly due to aero.
 
2 Sweet said:
Yep. God Bless Racing Champions. Hell, in the 90s you could get any Cup driver you wanted, and almost any Busch Series or SuperTrucks driver as well. Even guys like Glenn Allen Jr and Bryan Reffner. I even got a Frank Kimmel ARCA car one time. And this was at a Meijer grocery store, not even a collectibles store.

The exposure back then was awesome.
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Remember this one?


I picked it up in the close out bin at K-Mart for 4.99, sold it to a dealer for $90.
 
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